Can Dana Dimel be the Barry Alvarez of UTEP?

[MinerInWisconsin]

Ok, I'm bored with no sports to watch so let's talk some football just for the hell of it.


Both Dimel and Alvarez inherited abysmal football programs. Both are approaching the rebuilding in a similar fashion. There are a lot of differences to be sure but here are some similarities and quotes that might help illuminate the way forward.

Alavarez coached Wis for 16 years and had a total of 5 losing seasons. His first 3 seasons were 1-10, 5-6, 5-6 before the winning started.

Dimel coached Wyoming to 3 winning seasons and then took over Houston. Three losing seasons and he was fired. His record was 3-8, 0-11, 5-7. Would he have had a winning team had he stayed?

Alvarez is quoted as saying "don't flinch", meaning be confident in your approach and don't ever show a lack of confidence no matter how tough things are going. He also said that Wisconsin football was "the shittiest in the country" when he took over.

Here are some quotes of players and coaches along the way for Wis football as it went from the toilet bowl to the Rose Bowl.

Matt Lepay: Here's what Barry walked into. We would do a weekly coaches show. And at the time, we just relied on listeners calling in. Nobody freakin' called in. We made it up during the season. Dan McCarney would be Dan from Middleton. Bill Callahan would be Bill from Sun Prairie. We were like, we have to drum up some calls here. This sucks. You're filling an hour show. Do you know how long that is when no one is calling? They'd say, "Coach I just want to let you know we support the program. We're with you all the way." That's for real. It's a hit everywhere we tell that story, but it's true.

Before the Turnaround

Joe Rudolph remembers what it was like. The Belle Vernon, Pennsylvania, native recalls the early days of the Barry Alvarez era at Wisconsin.

"When I first got to Wisconsin [in 1990] nobody would wear their issued gear," Rudolph says. "We were made fun of by everyone, even some of our professors. People would talk about how the games weren't any good, but that at least they could enjoy the band."


https://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/wisconsin-badgers-barry-alvarez-oral-history-transformed-football-program-rose-bowl-063015

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

No. There’s a big difference between back to back 1-11 seasons and Alvarez going 5-6 in his second season. There’s got to be a better example.

 

[FeralFelidae]

MinerInWisconsin, I know this can't be a serious post from you. Barry Alvarez is legendary. Dimel does not even belong in the same sentence.

 

[UTEPy79]

No comparison at all. Barry Alvarez was an established defensive coach coming from a national championship team in South Bend, IN. I can't think of anything that would make these guys similar other than they both played college football, coached high school football and coached college football (one succeeded, the other suc'd).

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

I would love to believe that, but I think the consensus is that we are no better than when he started. I really believe that UTEP has upgraded a couple of positions over the last couple of years, mainly RB, WR and maybe the secondary. But I don’t know if I trust any of the QBs on the roster, and I refuse to believe the defense is any good until proven otherwise. The schedule isn’t in their favor either because those first 3 games have the potential to be bloodbaths and as usual the season can just spiral out of control from there. Is there anyone on here who thinks UTEP has the potential to get more than 3 wins?

 

[unihorn]

I would love to believe that, but I think the consensus is that we are no better than when he started. I really believe that UTEP has upgraded a couple of positions over the last couple of years, mainly RB, WR and maybe the secondary. But I don’t know if I trust any of the QBs on the roster, and I refuse to believe the defense is any good until proven otherwise. The schedule isn’t in their favor either because those first 3 games have the potential to be bloodbaths and as usual the season can just spiral out of control from there. Is there anyone on here who thinks UTEP has the potential to get more than 3 wins?

Nope

 

[JCorona]

Without going into too much research I think Dimel is probably the worst coach CUSA has ever seen. His teams have finished...

UH
8th out of 9 teams
10 out of 10
8 out of 10

UTEP
13 out of 14
14 out of 14


I just don’t see how this man will ever turn things around.

 

[Autograph Boy]

UTEP is going to the Rose Bowl in 2022!!! Booking my Rose Bowl package now!!!!!

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Without going into too much research I think Dimel is probably the worst coach CUSA has ever seen. His teams have finished...

UH
8th out of 9 teams
10 out of 10
8 out of 10

UTEP
13 out of 14
14 out of 14


I just don’t see how this man will ever turn things around.

I don’t know a lot of C-USA history but I’m sure him and Kugler are neck and neck. I give Kugler the edge just because he torpedoed the program to a depth that is worse than the typical UTEP standard. I know we are in a bad place now, but I feel like that 0 win season was something else. But this is like picking between a turd that’s hard as a rock or a turd that stinks.

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

Ok folks, way too much snark on here. You have to remember that it's quite possible that I'm suffering from covid 19 and may have a high fever accompanied by hallucinations. Have some damn compassion. A$$holes.

 

[centex-miner]

Gil Bartosh and Bill Michael each had 2 consecutive seasons with 1 win. Bill Michael was even more futile in which 3 of his first 4 seasons he had only 1 win (5 total to that point). His 5th season he started 0-2 and Billy Alton took over and went promptly 1-8. I think this was the most putrid stretch for a football coach at UTEP.

Gil Bartosh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Bartosh

Bill Michael
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Michael

UTEP Head coaching records
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/texas-el-paso/index.html

David Lee probably would have had 2 consecutive one win season had he not been replaced by Charlie Bailey which combined to make the Miners 1-11 in 1993.

David Lee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lee_(American_football_coach)

 

[minermx07]

Unfortunately there's nowhere we can point to and say we're better. Nowhere. Maybe playcalling went from F- to D-. Because Kuglers offense was simpler than what we ran in middle.school 20 years ago.

Off tackle strong-side, counter strong side, pass if long yardage, dive or sweep of it's short yardage

 

[unihorn]

I mean at some point you gotta just say it ain’t working.

 

[NewYorkCityMiner]

It took Alvarez 2 years to start winning 5 games a season at Wisconsin. It is going to take Dimel 4 years just to win 5 total games at UTEP.

 

[Autograph Boy]

It took Alvarez 2 years to start winning 5 games a season at Wisconsin. It is going to take Dimel 4 years just to win 5 total games at UTEP.

Plus Alvarez was playing good teams.

 

[utep2step]

Ok, no snarkiness.

Dimel gambled on Locksley and it didnt go well. His arm was not good and it cost many games. Canales got hired by no one so fans have to wait and see how it goes. Canales play calling and Locksley' arm were hair pulling to watch.

He can't seem to recruit a good edge rusher much less a solid D line but I realize it's just year 3 he is going into.

O line has been so so after 5 straight years, going back to Kugler, that it will be one of the best units in CUSA, but its never materializes. Want to blame year one for him on injuries? Fine, but 5 straight years.

Good news? Godwin is coming along nicely and his arm has improved. It appears sitting him out to develop may prove better results. UTEP is sitting nicely at rb's and we will see how plugging up d spots with juco's pays off. It works for Kansas State where he is from but they get better juco players, period.

Upside when this blows over and when the SB is opened up is that people will come out just to come out (Beer and liquor sales in EP are tops in state and always have been) and drink up, ticket sales will uptick.

 

[JCorona]

I don’t know a lot of C-USA history but I’m sure him and Kugler are neck and neck. I give Kugler the edge just because he torpedoed the program to a depth that is worse than the typical UTEP standard. I know we are in a bad place now, but I feel like that 0 win season was something else. But this is like picking between a turd that’s hard as a rock or a turd that stinks.

I really don’t think Kugler gets enough credit for the job he did in EP. I remember the expectations going into year three of his time here were 8-10 wins, possible CUSA title, and a bowl game. Expectations for Dimel’s third year is to not go winless. IMO Kugler’s outside life got the best of him in year five. He resigned but prior to that he was doing a lot better than Dimel is. I don’t know who inherited a worse situation but Kugler didn’t exactly take over an ideal situation either.

 

[utep2step]

I really don’t think Kugler gets enough credit for the job he did in EP. I remember the expectations going into year three of his time here were 8-10 wins, possible CUSA title, and a bowl game. Expectations for Dimel’s third year is to not go winless. IMO Kugler’s outside life got the best of him in year five. He resigned but prior to that he was doing a lot better than Dimel is. I don’t know who inherited a worse situation but Kugler didn’t exactly take over an ideal situation either.

When I saw him blow the game against Utah State whom he had on the ropes with already one 10 count and let them come back I knew he wasn't ready to coach at this level. Granted Utah State had one helluva coaching staff but UTEP had them pummeled into the ground at halftime.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

Granted Utah State had one helluva coaching staff but UTEP had them pummeled into the ground at halftime.

Halftime score of the 2014 NM Bowl:
Utah St - 7
UTEP- 3

That’s quite a pummeling we gave them.

 

[utep2step]

Their qb was knocked out but came back I think and UTEP started to move the ball. Kugler changed the game plan for whatever reason.

 

[Autograph Boy]

When I saw him blow the game against Utah State whom he had on the ropes with already one 10 count and let them come back I knew he wasn't ready to coach at this level. Granted Utah State had one helluva coaching staff but UTEP had them pummeled into the ground at halftime.

UTEP led the game 3-0 and lost 21-6. What the heck are you talking about?

 

[NewYorkCityMiner]

Halftime score of the 2014 NM Bowl:
Utah St - 7
UTEP- 3

That’s quite a pummeling we gave them.

I agree. UTEP's first half possessions went as follows:
6 plays, 19 yards, punt
7 plays, 60 yards, FG
6 plays, 18 yards, punt
6 plays, 11 yards, punt
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
6 plays, 14 yards, turnover on downs
*We dominated the time of possession stat.

I remembered the game as UTEP not doing a damn thing on offense and Utah St. shutting down Jones. When Jones was held in check, we would always lose. He was Kugler's only type of offense.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

Their qb was knocked out but came back I think and UTEP started to move the ball. Kugler changed the game plan for whatever reason.

Scoring 3 points in a half is no “pummeling”. They didn’t really pummel anyone that season and lost to the division champ by 52 points. That is a pummeling.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

UTEP led the game 3-0 and lost 21-6. What the heck are you talking about?

“This is CRT’s town!!!”

 

[Autograph Boy]

“This is CRT’s town!!!”

@utep2step is supposedly a realtor who supposedly makes too much money to get any stimulus money. He works in a profession that likes to bend the truth.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

I agree. UTEP's first half possessions went as follows:
6 plays, 19 yards, punt
7 plays, 60 yards, FG
6 plays, 18 yards, punt
6 plays, 11 yards, punt
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
6 plays, 14 yards, turnover on downs
*We dominated the time of possession stat.

I remembered the game as UTEP not doing a damn thing on offense and Utah St. shutting down Jones. When Jones was held in check, we would always lose. He was Kugler's only type of offense.

Yup. I remember they didn’t do a thing offensively all game. Kugler-ball at its finest.

 

[minermx07]

The playbook just said.... Aaron Jones breaks 6 tackles.

 

[develman]

If any of you really want to be optimistic like MinerinWisconsin, I see Dimmel as David Lee which is good because that led to Charlie Bailey who brought the program within clawing distance (like someone buried alive trying to dig out of his grave to no avail) to mediocrity.

Short of mediocre is something to shoot for, for this program.

 

[Autograph Boy]

If any of you really want to be optimistic like MinerinWisconsin, I see Dimmel as David Lee which is good because that led to Charlie Bailey who brought the program within clawing distance (like someone buried alive trying to dig out of his grave to no avail) to mediocrity.

Short of mediocre is something to shoot for, for this program.

I don't accept mediocrity. This program has been ranked in the Top 25 and beat ranked teams. With the right coach it can happen again. I want a bowl win. If NMSU can do it so can UTEP.

 

[develman]

I don't accept mediocrity. This program has been ranked in the Top 25 and beat ranked teams. With the right coach it can happen again. I want a bowl win. If NMSU can do it so can UTEP.

You couldn't tell how thick the sarcasm was with my statement? The sad part is that's been the reality 90% of the time.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

I don't accept mediocrity. This program has been ranked in the Top 25 and beat ranked teams. With the right coach it can happen again. I want a bowl win. If NMSU can do it so can UTEP.

I don’t think anyone on this board wants anything less but it seems like this program is beyond snakebitten. No one on here is proud of the teams this program has fielded for the last 3 years and possibly going all the way back to that bowl game vs Utah St. The unfortunate thing is even if we get a new coach in next year they would be looking at a complete overhaul from the ground up, so at best we are still years away from fielding a team that is not amongst the worst in the nation.

 

[Autograph Boy]

You couldn't tell how thick the sarcasm was with my statement? The sad part is that's been the reality 90% of the time.

haha Sorry, normally I can get sarcasm.

 

[Autograph Boy]

I don’t think anyone on this board wants anything less but it seems like this program is beyond snakebitten. No one on here is proud of the teams this program has fielded for the last 3 years and possibly going all the way back to that bowl game vs Utah St. The unfortunate thing is even if we get a new coach in next year they would be looking at a complete overhaul from the ground up, so at best we are still years away from fielding a team that is not amongst the worst in the nation.

I just think with the right coach it can be done sooner.

 

[utep2step]

I agree. UTEP's first half possessions went as follows:
6 plays, 19 yards, punt
7 plays, 60 yards, FG
6 plays, 18 yards, punt
6 plays, 11 yards, punt
3 plays, 1 yard, punt
6 plays, 14 yards, turnover on downs
*We dominated the time of possession stat.

I remembered the game as UTEP not doing a damn thing on offense and Utah St. shutting down Jones. When Jones was held in check, we would always lose. He was Kugler's only type of offense.

I meant UTEP defense.

I can admit, bad example.

Let's model it like NMSU. Martin did win a bowl game and conferences are lining up to invite them.

 

[Autograph Boy]

I meant UTEP defense.

I can admit, bad example.

Let's model it like NMSU. Martin did win a bowl game and conferences are lining up to invite them.

Would you rather win a bowl game or win 1 game a year?

 

[JCorona]

Since 2013, the year Kugler and Martin were hired nmsu is 22-63
UTEP is 20-65

We’re already like nmsu, let’s have higher aspirations.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

I just think with the right coach it can be done sooner.

I hope it can be done sooner as well. The reason I say a rebuild will take years is because the problems go beyond just coaching. Let’s just say Dimel sucks this year and Senter fires him. We get a new coach by Late December/early January. This next recruiting class will probably be flushed down the drain with a new coach/regime coming in. Next fall, do you think a roster composed of mostly players from this team could shoulder the load and improve dramatically? There are some bright spots on the team but UTEP has had some of the worst classes year in and year out.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

I hope it can be done sooner as well. The reason I say a rebuild will take years is because the problems go beyond just coaching. Let’s just say Dimel sucks this year and Senter fires him. We get a new coach by Late December/early January. This next recruiting class will probably be flushed down the drain with a new coach/regime coming in. Next fall, do you think a roster composed of mostly players from this team could shoulder the load and improve dramatically? There are some bright spots on the team but UTEP has had some of the worst classes year in and year out.

The recruiting classes are already last in the country or near the bottom. One scraped together recruiting class won’t hurt our 1-11 team one bit.

 

[JCorona]

IMO having a short season could benefit Dimel. If we go to one ooc game and the 8 conference games there’s a chance for a not so bad looking year. If it’s nmsu and the 8 conference games we played last season a 4-5 season isn’t a out of the world request.

 

[Dmanminer]

The only way for UTEP to win is go to a hurry up offense with a bunch of different looks.They did to confuse the defense cause we are not going to have better athletes.