Can FBS And FCS football teams be in the same conference?

centex-miner

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This looks like a real possibility for UTEP. Would the FBS schools lose their designation, in this scenario?

I believe UTEP needs to focus on placing basketball in a conference that will benefit the school, if it can. The basketball program would stay D-1; not so sure of the football team being FBS.
 

Minerforlife

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This looks like a real possibility for UTEP. Would the FBS schools lose their designation, in this scenario?

I believe UTEP needs to focus on placing basketball in a conference that will benefit the school, if it can. The basketball program would stay D-1; not so sure of the football team being FBS.
It our over funding of basketball the last 15 years that's got us to this point. If we would have focused on football we wouldn't be sitting where we are today. The only way basketball will ever improve is to be a stable fbs conference. If we move down the budget goes into free fall.
 

EMA884

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I travel 4.5 hours to and from El Paso to be at UTEP home games (9 hours total driving time). I am a season ticket holder and have been to all 4 games so far this year. I donate money to the Miner Athletic Club and to the football team. I have been a supporter for many years and did not turn my back away through the 0-12 seasons. If this team starts playing with FCS my ties will be cut with UTEP football. May sound unreasonable to some or dramatic to others but I will no longer support them. I’m sure I won’t be the only one. AD must do everything in his power at the moment to save this thing from fully sinking; this is the moment he earns his keep.
 

Minerforlife

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I travel 4.5 hours to and from El Paso to be at UTEP home games (9 hours total driving time). I am a season ticket holder and have been to all 4 games so far this year. I donate money to the Miner Athletic Club and to the football team. I have been a supporter for many years and did not turn my back away through the 0-12 seasons. If this team starts playing with FCS my ties will be cut with UTEP football. May sound unreasonable to some or dramatic to others but I will no longer support them. I’m sure I won’t be the only one. AD must do everything in his power at the moment to save this thing from fully sinking; this is the moment he earns his keep.
I'm right there with you. If we drop I'm done, UTEP will never get another cent from me.
 

utep2step

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This looks like a real possibility for UTEP. Would the FBS schools lose their designation, in this scenario?

I believe UTEP needs to focus on placing basketball in a conference that will benefit the school, if it can. The basketball program would stay D-1; not so sure of the football team being FBS.
You can be a FCS school but the woman’s volleyball can be in a larger division for example and hypothetically….I think.

Here’s the kicker, you drop a division and it’s over. You go from a Cadillac to a Ford Fiesta it’s tough to go back up. Why do you think NMSU even did away with their womens equestrian to save football? Geez, that’s a traditional land grant college sport!
 

utep2step

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It our over funding of basketball the last 15 years that's got us to this point. If we would have focused on football we wouldn't be sitting where we are today. The only way basketball will ever improve is to be a stable fbs conference. If we move down the budget goes into free fall.
Kugler does hold a lot of responsibility. He cared less about keeping fans (you have too at this level) and his post AJ offense was sooooooo stagnant that his own players begged him to try different options. He’d do it one game and go back to old ways.

Floyd high risk recruiting left a proud program reeling. No need to go thru the laundry list of iffy supposedly nifty recruits he spent high energy to just either not make it on campus (couldn’t even qualify to enter UTEP much less any community college), got pissed off and left, got homesick or literally walked off after not enough playing time. Then when a good one would land here, he or the UTEP staff would piss off mom and dad and bye bye the good player went. This was yearly with Floyd and Stull wouldn’t do anything for years. Senter hires Terry and brought in good players but his offense was so damn inconsistent and Helter-Skelter one night to the next. Beating a PAC XII team one night but then lose to bad CUSA teams the next. No post season pie at all hurts a mid major program after a while.
 

utep2step

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Then Dimel comes in and the first game UTEP gets their ass kicked by FCS NAU and a dismal NMSU football program starts poaching wins every year, gads that was horrid. Fans took their $10 to $20 bucks elsewhere and now UTEP is begging for them to come back!
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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A conference cannot compete in both FBS and FCS. Navy and NMSU play in different “conferences”. Their home conference has FBS football, but they’re FCS. So you “can” have teams that compete in both, but not how you think it could work.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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I travel 4.5 hours to and from El Paso to be at UTEP home games (9 hours total driving time). I am a season ticket holder and have been to all 4 games so far this year. I donate money to the Miner Athletic Club and to the football team. I have been a supporter for many years and did not turn my back away through the 0-12 seasons. If this team starts playing with FCS my ties will be cut with UTEP football. May sound unreasonable to some or dramatic to others but I will no longer support them. I’m sure I won’t be the only one. AD must do everything in his power at the moment to save this thing from fully sinking; this is the moment he earns his keep.
That’s what you say. Maybe you take off a year. You would be back. Especially if success was achieved.
 

JCorona

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Then you’re not a real fan, just a baby.
Lol this is his breaking point.

Just how many stopped financially supporting UTEP because of all the losing of Price, Kugler, and Dimel.

And still don't support UTEP even though they're 6-1.

There are probably 18k real fans in El Paso. A few more sprinkled across the USA that still financially support UTEP.

Everyone else babies.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Lol this is his breaking point.

Just how many stopped financially supporting UTEP because of all the losing of Price, Kugler, and Dimel.

And still don't support UTEP even though they're 6-1.

There are probably 18k real fans in El Paso. A few more sprinkled across the USA that still financially support UTEP.

Everyone else babies.
It’s different. These guys are saying definitively they “are done”. All the people not going to the games, probably never said “I’m done financially supporting this team” and if they did, they will come back.

If you love a team enough to drive 9 hours or allegedly donate money to them, you’re not going to stop “supporting” because the team is playing lesser competition now. You’ll be back. Guaranteed.

And the basketball program would still be D1. I don’t think FCS is possible at the moment. UTEP will be Independent or in the super shittiest FBS conference known to man.
 

jdubb66

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It was Stull's decision to hitch our wagon to CUSA that did us in. It didn't help that we were "doing more with less" throughout the 2010s.

We sounded the alarm plenty of times but the powers at UTEP turned a deaf ear to what we knew was going to happen, realignment and being left behind if our sports teams didn't improve.

Just years of mismanagement.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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It was Stull's decision to hitch our wagon to CUSA that did us in. It didn't help that we were "doing more with less" throughout the 2010s.

We sounded the alarm plenty of times but the powers at UTEP turned a deaf ear to what we knew was going to happen, realignment and being left behind if our sports teams didn't improve.

Just years of mismanagement.
Disagree. If we would have remained in the WAC, we might have been left behind with Idaho and NMSU. If you’re talking about more recently, when UTEP allegedly turned down the MWC, since we do not know that happened 100%, then we can only speculate.

UTEP is here because fans did not pressure Stull to fire Price or Floyd. If UTEP fires Price in 09 or 10, Kugler isn’t even considered then. So his regime never happens. If Floyd gets fired in 2015, Terry probably never shows up either. Would it have been better? Who knows. It’s not all Stull’s fault. Fans deserve a lot of blame for continuously buying season tickets for shitty coaches.
 

JCorona

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Stull fudge the numbers. Someone on the CUSA board a few years back posted the NCAA audit numbers.

Fans stopped buying tickets a long time ago.

It's those few loyal fans that kept buying tickets that allowed the program to remain alive. Without them UTEP wouldn't have survived to this point.
 
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OsoFromELP

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It was Stull's decision to hitch our wagon to CUSA that did us in. It didn't help that we were "doing more with less" throughout the 2010s.

We sounded the alarm plenty of times but the powers at UTEP turned a deaf ear to what we knew was going to happen, realignment and being left behind if our sports teams didn't improve.

Just years of mismanagement.

UTEP needed to leave the WAC when it did. At the time C-USA was a good fit for us. Conference realignments diluted C-USA afterwards. Just like it did then, it's happening again now. Only this time it will almost certainly dissolve C-USA entirely.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Stull fudge the numbers. Someone on the CUSA board a few years back posted the NCAA audit numbers.

Fans stopped buying tickets a long time ago.

It's those few loyal fans that kept buying tickets that allowed the program to remain alive. Without them UTEP wouldn't have survived to this point.
Weird that LaTech and FIU have survived too. Look at highlights and pictures from their games. UTEP blew them away in attendance.
 

JCorona

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Weird that LaTech and FIU have survived too. Look at highlights and pictures from their games. UTEP blew them away in attendance.
FIU survived on heavy student fees. More than half of their revenue is student fees. There were years when they had 28 million in revenue and 20 million of that was student fees.

LT is the true definition of doing more with less. They also benefit from a strong donor base. The numbers show while we're getting contributions of 2 million they're getting 5 million sometimes 7 million.
 

jdubb66

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UTEP needed to leave the WAC when it did. At the time C-USA was a good fit for us. Conference realignments diluted C-USA afterwards. Just like it did then, it's happening again now. Only this time it will almost certainly dissolve C-USA entirely.
We were invited to join the MWC after more prominent members left CUSA but Stull turned them down. Utah St took our place there. it's well documented.
 

FeralFelidae

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We were invited to join the MWC after more prominent members left CUSA but Stull turned them down. Utah St took our place there. it's well documented.
Proof? Nobody has ever offered any evidence that this ever happened, despite years of asking.

We need an insider to spill the beans. @kappy600, what's the scoop?
 

FeralFelidae

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FeralFelidae

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If it’s well documented, there should be an article online about it.
The only thing I've ever seen in print is this article from @kappy600 where he mentions the rumor. But there is no confirmation of the rumor.

https://krod.com/can-utep-parlay-the-big-12-reshuffling-into-a-mountain-west-move/

"Whether it was the C-USA/MWC Super League falling apart, or rumors that former President Dr. Diana Natalicio vetoed the move, UTEP is still in the same league since they left the WAC in the fall of 2005."
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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The only thing I've ever seen in print is this article from @kappy600 where he mentions the rumor. But there is no confirmation of the rumor.

https://krod.com/can-utep-parlay-the-big-12-reshuffling-into-a-mountain-west-move/

"Whether it was the C-USA/MWC Super League falling apart, or rumors that former President Dr. Diana Natalicio vetoed the move, UTEP is still in the same league since they left the WAC in the fall of 2005."
So then it wouldn’t be “well documented”.
 
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jdubb66

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I've heard this rumor many times. Around what year was this?
All I can offer is my study and research of the issue around 2010 or 11. I followed it every waking hour, following message board posts of the MWC, BYU, UNM, and others, social media posts, articles around the issue, comments by Craig Thompson himself, taking into account the lower profile of Utah State at the time (Miners were in a much more prominent position), MWC was landlocked much like now in terms of teams they could add. The offer was rumored in some of the sources listed above with what I believe were reliable sources. I'm sure you can find posts to that effect here on digs that date back to that time.

There were also at that time, many Miner fans, West Coast miner fans, that were pushing to get UTEP back to their past mates. The common theory was that Bob Stull wanted to remain in CUSA with the Texas Schools for recruiting, travel etc.
 
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JCorona

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All I can offer is my study and research of the issue around 2010 or 11. I followed it every waking hour, following message board posts of the MWC, BYU, UNM, and others, social media posts, articles around the issue, comments by Craig Thompson himself, taking into account the lower profile of Utah State at the time (Miners were in a much more prominent position), MWC was landlocked much like now in terms of teams they could add. The offer was rumored in some of the sources listed above with what I believe were reliable sources. I'm sure you can find posts to that effect here on digs that date back to that time.
Well if it's true UTEP is as dumb as a rock. In 2012, a year or two later from when we turned them down, we were begging to get into the MW.
 

jdubb66

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Well if it's true UTEP is as dumb as a rock. In 2012, a year or two later from when we turned them down, we were begging to get into the MW.
UTEP made the choice to stay with their in-state pals, then, the in-state pals left for the AAC. Houston and SMU were gone. UTEP tried to get back with the MWC as a matter of fact, there was a move to form a coalition with CUSA and the MWC in which UTEP would be aligned with the MWC schools. That move never materialized when the NCAA told the coalition that they would not retain individual conference perks, such as NCAA tournament bids. The coalition never materialized and Thompson made his famous quote to UTEP. "move on to plan b".

At least, that is how I remember it. But I'm old...
 

FeralFelidae

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There were also at that time, many Miner fans, West Coast miner fans, that were pushing to get UTEP back to their past mates.
These past mates didn't want UTEP when they split off and formed the MWC in the first place. I still think it's unproven that enough of them changed their mind about UTEP to extend them an offer. I'm sure UTEP was in the conversation and maybe some of them came around to a pro-UTEP stance, but I'm not convinced that enough did for the MWC to vote to extend an offer.

The rumor is plausible, but people throw it around like it's true, but after all these years, if it were known to be true, I would expect there to be some evidence. Someone from UTEP or one of the MWC schools would have leaked something.

If UTEP really had an offer on the table from the MWC, and had a choice to make between CUSA and the MWC, they should have solicited feedback from their fans and alumni. Something. I've just never seen anything that suggests the offer was on the table, as plausible as it might be.
 
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utep2step

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History is history and now we are attacking each other for not being a fan.

As Jeeber said in an earlier post, "this is depressing". UTEP was playing with the likes of Arizona State, Arizona, Texas Tech and in more recent memory, BYU, Utah, and other MW members. More recent than that TCU, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, Memphis and UCF.

UTEP gambled with Price who promised a top 25 rankings but just hit #25 for a week or two and it was gone. UTEP played Colorado close in the Houston Bowl but got smacked by Toledo and BYU in the next bowl games.

Kugler comes to town and blames Price for the "dumpster fire" he created. He brought in the Jones brothers and we were all smiles for a while (longer than the #25 ranking under Price) and AJ ate up defenses such as TT and UT who had no answer for him. Jones brother left and Kugler football was seen for what it really was....one dimensional in a college game that was going full RPO and variations of mixed in with spread trip formations (Coastal Carolina for example). Worse, he alienated the fans. By his last two years the damage was done.

Floyd. What a f'en mess he made! ESPN warned us through the radio that he had a few screws loose but UTEP and us fans, especially me, would have none of it. One of the extremely rare times a major sports outlet tried to help UTEP because historically they bashed the living crud out of the Miners going back to the 66 team. Barbee left him a full arsenal to win CUSA again. He blew it. The next year his top recruit was 6'10" big man who even told a sports reporter "I'm not college material....I hate school". Georgia State who had more liberal intake than UTEP couldn't even get him in if I remember correctly. Hamilton fiasco. Hunter fiasco (now that wasn't Floyd's fault but there should have been a firing of Darby). Washburn media fiasco. The Kappy hit job. Floyd created problems or problems found him.

Dimel. K State showed him the back door due to his conservative play calling that wasn't winning games. Coach Snyder said "Can you give him a chance? He has tons of experience!". The rest is history. New AD Senter publicly stated he had the best interview. Rumors said otherwise. Senter countered that the "hot and up and coming" assistants wanted way too much money. Not my opinion, he said that on public radio, his lips to my ears. Four years later UTEP is atop CUSA West, but is now a child left behind in a war torn landscape and can't find a parent or sibling.

Terry. Smooth talker. Sharp dressed man. Cleaned up Fresno State and took them to the dance. He was second choice after the ETSU coach got a better counter offer. Terry was in Big XII State of Texas and was laser focused on Austin. He didn't even come close to winning CUSA, but he did leave behind some good talent. We'll see what Golding molds out of them? As for Terry, "F off and don't come back" was in the desert air from Anthony, Texas to Cornudas, Texas.

Locomotives came and opened shop and the Chihuahua's took the rapier attitude towards UTEP and won.

UTEP tickets sales plunged.

10/2021 and UTEP is 6-1 and Golding is the new bball coach. It feels more like the days when Billy left for College Station and we witnessed with utter disgust as he put on the maroon blazer and went sky diving.

Senter and Wilson, especially Wilson..... do some magic. If you can bring R&D facility to Fabens to help UTEP with their R&D, you can make UTEP attractive to someone, right?
 
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jdubb66

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The bottom line is we have to invest in the program. Years of divestment and "doing more with less" attitude from Dr. N (God rest her) have left us with poor options and poorer results.

El Paso has always had the pobrecito mentality up until recently that has gotten us nowhere. If you want results you put your money where your mouth is.

It is past time for these so called Big Time donors to step up and buy us into a better conference. Make a deal guys!

The City of El Paso is now investing in the community and the results are self-evident. More investment in downtown, triple A baseball, a USL Franchise, Top Golf and more from companies and organizations who want to be a part of our growth. Who believe in our market potential.

University officials have to have a change in paradigm or we'll just fall further and further behind.
 

JCorona

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Exactly but El Paso is full of "why should I support a loser program" without ever seeing the long-term picture.

A perfect example is UNT. They had an awful program. Still kind of do. They raised the money while losing to build a new stadium and are now light years ahead in the facilities arm race. In 2008 they approved construction of their new stadium during a 1-11 season. The year before that they went 2-10, the year before that 3-9, the year before that 2-9....

It takes leadership and financial backing to see the big picture and contribute even when the team is shit.

What chance do we have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for major improvements?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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A perfect example is UNT. They had an awful program. Still kind of do. They raised the money while losing to build a new stadium and are now light years ahead in the facilities arm race. In 2008 they approved construction of their new stadium during a 1-11 season. The year before that they went 2-10, the year before that 3-9, the year before that 2-9....

Apples to Oranges. UNT won plenty of Conference Championships pre-FBS. Their stadium was old and had a track around it.

Then there’s this:
“ Fouts Field was in notoriously poor condition for FBS football in its final years; most notably, one of the power outlets in the press box would cause the entire venue to lose power if used.”

And

“Despite the addition of artificial turf in 2005, the electric wiring throughout the venue was often faulty, mold easily grew in the weight room and press boxes, and old plumbing pipes that ran under the playing field often created a horrible stench on the North Texas sideline during hot August and September games.”

Can you find similar instances that ever described the Sun Bowl that way?
 

FeralFelidae

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Exactly but El Paso is full of "why should I support a loser program" without ever seeing the long-term picture.

A perfect example is UNT. They had an awful program. Still kind of do. They raised the money while losing to build a new stadium and are now light years ahead in the facilities arm race. In 2008 they approved construction of their new stadium during a 1-11 season. The year before that they went 2-10, the year before that 3-9, the year before that 2-9....

It takes leadership and financial backing to see the big picture and contribute even when the team is shit.

What chance do we have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for major improvements?
I mean, their new stadium is fine, but it doesn't blow me away. What makes it light years ahead of the Sun Bowl?

Southern_Methodist_vs._North_Texas_football_2018_03_%28Green_Brigade_Marching_Band%29.jpg
 

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