Depth for the Tournament...

[allminer]

jdubb brought up the subject of depth and stamina for the potentially 3 game stretch this week and since I'm off today I did this little bit of research regarding our potential opponents for the first two games. I did not however research Old Dominions potential oppenents, Charlotte and Middle Tennessee. Seems like all go with an 8 player rotation, with a player or two for small spot minutes. For what its worth.

UTSA has 3 players go over 30 minutes per game with one more at just under 30. 2 go for 14-17 minutes, and 2 more at about 9 per game. These guys are averaging between 1-5 points per game.

Florida International seems to have the shortest rotation. The go with 2 at over 30, with one of these averaging 35, both are their leading scorers. They have 4 players going over 20 and 2 at 11 and 17 respectively. They both averaging less than 4 points a game.

Old Dominion has 6 players averaging 25-28, with their point guard Freeman going at 32. After that they have 1 player at 11 and one player at 9, both contributing about 3 points a game.

UTEP goes with Cooper at 30.5 and Washburn at 33. Hunter, Lang, Harris and Morris all hover at around 25 a game. Hooper gets 12, and Wilms at 18.

Looking at this I don't think anyone really has a clear advantage over the other depth wise. Personally I would rather face FIU in our first round than UTSA. FIU is 6-11 away from home, plus we would have to beat UTSA a third time. Considering their hot start our last game, and they did hang around, they may have gained a little confidence going into a third game against us.



This post was edited on 3/9 3:26 PM by allminer

 

[jdubb66]

Nice research, however, these other teams have the potential to go deeper. When you play 2 games a week, 8 players is fine. But what if you have to go to your bench? Where do we go? What if Lang and/or Hunter get into foul trouble? I don't know who else on our bench we can play. Haskins used to play a lot more players during conference tournaments than the regular season if they were available. Teams with more players on their bench have a definite advantage over us.

 

[utep2step]

UTSA was throwing up crap and it all was falling in last time

This is UTSA folks. Not sure if you all have noticed what UTSA, UNT and Rice did against UTEP the last three weeks?! Chuck it up from the perimeter (because they can't match up with Wilms, Lang and Hunter), hope it goes in, and get your ass back down the court and play D!!!

This post was edited on 3/9 4:54 PM by utep2step

 

[kappasigmaminer]

Great info. Thanks for putting it together.

 

[tbleslieDELETE]

I don't want to speak for anybody else utep2step, but I don't think anybody is worried about our depth in game 1 against UTSA/FIU. I think lack of depth poses more of a problem the deeper we go. I have to think that by Saturday, if they make it that far, the Miners will have to dig deep going with that 8 man rotation the whole way.

 

[utep2step]

According to some dialogue between Yellen and Teich a few weeks back, this is becoming way, way to common in upper level division 1 basketball. Syracuse and Duke are now down to eight players this year as well. However, instead of grades or discipline, it's money that is changing the landscape. Players are more willing to transfer to another school and sit out that year if it helps their "basketball career". UTEP has lost two "NBA prospects" within the last three years due to this. With international teams paying more money, you can make some damn good money overseas. Heck, as we found out a few months ago with the death of Rab's, even Vietnam has a pro league (ASEAN League) and their star player is from Montana State!

Attrition, my friend....attrition ["For the love of money" by the O'Jays playing in the background]

This post was edited on 3/9 7:14 PM by utep2step

 

[allminer]

Originally posted by tbleslie:
I don't want to speak for anybody else utep2step, but I don't think anybody is worried about our depth in game 1 against UTSA/FIU. I think lack of depth poses more of a problem the deeper we go. I have to think that by Saturday, if they make it that far, the Miners will have to dig deep going with that 8 man rotation the whole way.

I look it at this way. If the Miners make it to Saturday, the team they will be playing will have had to play as many games as the Miners had to get there. Looking at UAB and Louisiana Tech, of the two, UAB appears to go 9 deep, with 8 players that have played pretty much every game on their schedule and averaging anywhere from 18-30+ per game. They appear to be the deepest team. La Tech is not really that deep, they go 8 also, but their 7th and 8th contribute significantly less minutes. They rely heavily on their starting 5.

One thing to remember, the Miners went about month without Matt Willms, and Lang and Hunter have pretty much played with foul trouble all year. So the issue of foul trouble has been dealt with throughout the season. The thing to avoid is having both those players in foul trouble at the same time. Thats where we've hurt before. Hooper's minutes going up while Matt was out may prove to be very valuable this week.

I don't see the issue that jdubb brings up about teams having more players on the bench being at an advantage. Looking at the season stats of those teams, players that have played mop up duty, that is having played in maybe 8 games for less than 2-3 minutes tells me those players are not part of the rotation and it is highly unlikely they are going to be seeing any minutes at all for the tourney. I doubt any of these coaches are going to screw with their rotations at this point and put any players without any significant experience into these type of game situations, for the sake of saving legs, unless they are involved in a blowout, and I don't see much of a chance for blow-outs in this tourney. Not after the 1st round games anyway.

If everything holds to form, and its UTEP/Old Dominion and UAB/La Tech on Friday, I don't see any of those teams having a clear advantage over the other on Saturday as far as legs. Both Friday games are going to be intense. I can't decide who I'd rather face...UAB is unbeaten at home, including a trashing of La Tech. La Tech has handled us twice this year, and as others have pointed out, pose big match up problems for us. But...the Miners have to get there first.

 

[develman]

Just a side note allminer . I think Hunter would play more minutes , but he always in foul trouble .

 

[Pony10]

I know message boards are to discuss things, share info, ask questions, share concerns, etc......but this is one topic I really cringe at and hate when it's posted - I guess I'm too old school and/or it falls in line with the wussification of America (along with NBA stars sitting out games to get rest during the season - what the????.........as it is they are already overpaid!). These are young men we are talking about that should be at the prime physical conditioning of their lives - they should be able to play 8 and get through 3 games just fine - sheesh!!! I hope it's just being posted to consider all aspects of the upcoming tournament and no one is seriously concerned about this - also, hope the players don't buy into this crap, man up!

 

[allminer]

After watching our very thin team clearly lose their legs towards the end last season, I have to respectfully disagree.

 

[tbleslieDELETE]

Got into this discussion last year. Couple questions pony10. Did you play a college sport by any chance? If not, did you play a sport in HS? Have you ever played games back to back to back? Even in my prime, by game 3 of a tourney, I was feeling the heaviness in my legs, and I was one of the more conditioned guys on my team. It's funny to me that people think because these guys are college aged, they should have unlimited stamina and endurance. Beyond the question of conditioning, season long accumulating injuries like stress fractures, tendonitis, muscle strains, deep bruises, etc, start making their presence known and felt. Play a couple games on successive days with a bad case of patellar tendonitis or a stress fracture across the top of your foot and the shit will slowly wear you down. You hear about the injuries that sideline a guy, but you don't hear about the nagging injuries that aren't talked about. I bet you half this Miner team is playing with them, and we will never know about them. Even "manning up", which most college athletes do throughout their collegiate careers anyway, will only take you so far. Why do you think there is an advantage in being in the top 4 seeds of this tourney? Could it be because the more games you play, the more worn out a team gets? Hmmm. Along those same lines, the deeper a roster is, the more rest the regulars will get in a 4 day tournament. Having an 8 man rotation is a disadvantage, without a doubt. Don't get me wrong, the Miners are going to have to man up, as you said, and can still get it done, but let's not disregard the fact that they are going to have to go deep into the tank to do so. Just my 2 cents worth on this annual topic.

 

[allminer]

Some more minutes...


Ok, only because I've got some ribs in the oven and I've got nothing better to do...

Febuary 7, 2015 versus UTEP

FIU played 9 players, however really only 7, as two had spot play at 3.

Diaz and Mavin played 37 minutes, Draper 34 (did not start), Gulley 28, Desir 22, Rodriguez 21 (did not start), Boswell at 15.
Hussein (who started) played only 3, Phillip 3.

Miners went with with Washburn at 39, Cooper at 35, Hunter at 33 (no foul trouble), Morris 23, Harris 23, Vint at 22 and Lang (foul trouble) 20. Stallworth had 5. Wilmms if you recall was out with an injury.

Today FIU went

Rodriguez 37, Mavin 36, Diaz 30 (foul trouble), Gulley 28, Draper 30. Off the bench Williams 20, Phillip 10, Boswell 8, Jimenez 4.

Maybe getting UTSA would have been better, 3 of their starters went over 35, the other two went 32 and 31. Only two off the bench for 13 each.

There's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.




This post was edited on 3/11 5:14 PM by allminer

 

[tbleslieDELETE]

Good stuff allminer, good stuff! Your sacrifice, our gain.