Judge says Duranguito can be torn down?
- Thread starter utep2step
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I know some of you are upset, but Grossman is saving us from financial ruin. This arena will be a massive money drain and empty most nights.
yeah, yeah, yeah....We've heard this same ol' story before from you clowns and look at the results. Obviously you don't know much about finance, since you dodn't even know how a bond works or property values, so please excuse me as I laugh at your financial advise
It’s advice, first of all. Second, I wasn’t giving advice, only my opinion.
I know how bonds work and about property values. You are the one saying the values would for sure go up in 30 years. There’s a good chance that happens, but far from definite. Look at Detroit and others and see how properly values have dropped. A big, long war would do damage to El Paso and you would see a lot of military families leave. Wouldn’t property values drop because of a surplus of homes?
I guess you have a crystal ball and see no wars and just prosperity in El Paso. How are the trolleys working out? Taxes continue to go up and city elected officials keep giving themselves raises. Better build an arena and let the taxpayers pay for it. A poster named Randaddy on a message board says property values will only continue to rise.
You posted "but Grossman is saving us from financial ruin". Advise, not advice. I'm assuming you're young because you posted that you're a student at UTEP (I only bringing this up because you mentioned the military) and I'll get back to this soon enough... Your argument is that a catastrophic event has to happen in order for the arena or whatever is built downtown for it to fail. For all we know, a meteor could hit downtown and your argument holds water, but any argument of a catastrophic event happening to the arena (as far as LAND value goes) would also hold true for what we don't do with duranguito. With your argument, the same shit would happen to the land value if we built the arena or if we didn't. What I can guarantee you is that after the bonds have matured, the physical structure of the arena would be worth a lot more itself than the concrete, rundown houses in Duranguito. I'm sorry but Grossman is an art teacher, not a business person
Back to the student part, and this isn't a knock on you (I bring this up, because my son who is 14 brought up Iran yesterday), nor your generation, but we've been at war for almost 20 years now. To the generations born a couple years before 9/11 and after, it doesn't seem like it because it is a norm for you guys. You guys will never know what it was like to show up to the airport parking lot 15 minutes before your flight and still make your flight. This baffles me and brings me down at the same time because you guys have had to worry about terrorism your entire life and it's just another day to you guys... Well, you guys grew up with Iphones and stuff like that, so I guess that is your trade off. Anyways, back to my argument, we've been at war for several years and Ft. Bliss is still here, so for your argument's sake, you better hope a meteor hits downtown, because not only would the land value drop, but there would be no physical structure remaining, houses nor arena.
Back to the student part, and this isn't a knock on you (I bring this up, because my son who is 14 brought up Iran yesterday), nor your generation, but we've been at war for almost 20 years now. To the generations born a couple years before 9/11 and after, it doesn't seem like it because it is a norm for you guys. You guys will never know what it was like to show up to the airport parking lot 15 minutes before your flight and still make your flight. This baffles me and brings me down at the same time because you guys have had to worry about terrorism your entire life and it's just another day to you guys... Well, you guys grew up with Iphones and stuff like that, so I guess that is your trade off. Anyways, back to my argument, we've been at war for several years and Ft. Bliss is still here, so for your argument's sake, you better hope a meteor hits downtown, because not only would the land value drop, but there would be no physical structure remaining, houses nor arena.
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That goes without saying, that an arena would be worth more than Duranguito in the present and future. I'm just saying that a Downtown Arena, especially one built and maintained by the city, is not a good idea. I don't care about the buildings and I hope someone knocks them down or restores them or whatever.
The arena will take events from the DHC and Coliseum and at best, might have a minor league basketball and or hockey team. You really think people are going to go Downtown to watch a G league game?
How are the trolleys doing? No sure why you think the city is capable of doing this arena right. They hardly do anything right.
Everyone just needs to start from scratch and come up with something that works for everyone. Work with UTEP, improve and expand the DHC, rebuild the Coliseum or just move the arena somewhere else. Let Grossman and his people do what they want with the buildings and see how successful they are.
You keep bringing up the trollies. Yeah, it was a vanity project. However, by “G” league game the baseball games and soccer one seem to be doing well. Top of the table for both (amazing since it’s the soccer teams first year).
You never really countered randaddy’s point with when the bond matures the land and building would be more $$
I see the arena as adding events to the city that aren’t feasible at the Don. It also allows promoters more open dates to book events in El Paso without having to conflict with basketball games.
I think El Paso would show up to watch hockey and g league. They show up to watch USL soccer and the g league has much more talent than available in the USL. The buzzards were very successful at one point. The rhinos are currently successful.
I think El Paso would show up to watch hockey and g league. They show up to watch USL soccer and the g league has much more talent than available in the USL. The buzzards were very successful at one point. The rhinos are currently successful.
Let’s not forget the UTEP hockey club that has won and continues to be successful as well.
More avenues to hold events, the better it is for the city and tourism especially with the hotel growth
Let’s not forget that the arena will be used for more than just events. There are a lot of conventions that El Paso loses out on because the Civic Center is too small. A lot of people are unaware of just how much goes on at the Civic Center. Hopefully nothing has changed, but the original vision was for the arena to be scaleable and multi function.
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Part of the reason for wanting a new/modern arena is the fact that The Don lacks modern rigging/expandable floor space for bigger concerts/events. For example, El Paso/Las Cruces is a big WWE town, but we can’t get things like Monday Night Raw/Smackdown because we lack the facilites. We only get house shows and those things sell out.
Ugh! What do you suppose? Go back to 80's and 90's TIF Districts? City has tried for decades trying to work with business owners, dwelling owners and nothing. Arena's bring "anchor tenants" and you go after attractions. If those damn owners and Grossman were so concerned they would have applied before the election. The city has proposals, mock ups, future developments plans, you name it.
Geeze, where in the heck are all you right leaning GOP capitalist loving Miners at?
Oh, in that 30% (mas o menos) that you get every election there’s probably 5% of us.
Now, getting out of 2steps usual political rabbit hole, it is a positive that the city is acting like one should for its population. In HS I would have never thought we would have MiLB and USL like we do now
Locomotive should be successful because they control their own players and their contracts and don’t have an official parent club that dictates their roster. They have no excuse if they suck.
It’s fair to say that the land will be worth more, but it’s purely speculative. Could be worth 10 cents more or 10 million. I just don’t think it will be successful and the longer it drags on, the worse the arena will be.
No use in debating. The city voted yes on the bond and it needs to be built. Whatever the Supreme court decides, I really hope the city sues Grossman based on the devaluation of our 180 million dollars.
The city wanted to tear down the buildings last Friday night but the company did not have permits to work at night. If they would have had the permits the buildings would have been gone that night. Now we have to wait some more.
J.P. Bryan. He is a Texas billionaire and founder of Torch energy advisors. He has a museum in Galveston that houses historical artifacts...etc..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw31VQq-ZGANzDDesK3Mn0HM&cshid=1561425287685
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I can't believe they didn't have the permits to work at night before hand. They've been fighting this for how long???? and nobody saw this scenario possibly playing out???
These are the same morons that worded the bond super vague. Doesn’t surprise me at all.
This arena is never going to get built when you have dumb fighting against dumber.
The arena will eventually be built. The problem is that the original bond money will not be enough to build the arena as was proposed in 2014. This will require the city to:
1. Pass an additional bond to get the needed money
2. The city to raise taxed to come up with the money
3. Build a smaller version of the arena.
1. Pass an additional bond to get the needed money
2. The city to raise taxed to come up with the money
3. Build a smaller version of the arena.
The cost estimate has been quoted at about $250 million lately. My estimate is around 300 million, give or take 10. The've also kicked around the idea of a public/private partnership. Who in this town has the clout to get a 70 to 120 mill line of credit?
BREAKING: Tax payers to pay for something that they voted to pay for
Did they vote for a $250-300 million arena? Nope. You can’t just up the cost and expect people to be okay with it.
Grossman and his backer should pay the difference since they ended up costing us so much more money.
It’s ironic that Grossman and co seem to be on this mission to also expose all this financial mismanagement and waste within the city of El Paso all the while costing the city tens of millions in the process.
It's ironic that grossman theoretically wants to preserve properties he has ZERO interest in. Anyone thinking this jackass isn't trying to effing profit is a total idiot.
Don't fool yourself, you could give two shits about the cost... You remind me of the homeless lady who was protesting the ballpark and kept rambling on about plastic structures or some shit like that, I can't remember exactly wtf she had against it... I'm pretty sure her property taxes didn't go up either.
In my opinion, to me, it comes off as something personal you have against the city or mountain star, it may be both and I base that off your comments about a soccer stadium not being built downtown (you didn't care where it was built, as long as it wasn't downtown.) You don't care if it cost $3,000,000,000 as long as it's not downtown
Grossman, socially has. When people bring up the 'crazy professor from UTEP' and people ask 'which one? the philosophy one or the art one?' If your name gets brought up with Dr. Best when it comes to crazy, I'm pretty sure you've paid the price and then some.
My beef is building a soccer specific stadium for Locomotive. I don’t care if it’s costs 3,000,000,000, as long as Mountain Star pays for it all by themselves. No more hand outs for them
I just don’t see how the arena will be successful by having a minor league team and a few boxing and wrestling shows each year. Waste of money.
I just don’t see how the arena will be successful by having a minor league team and a few boxing and wrestling shows each year. Waste of money.
One particular thing that I really don’t like about Grossman is how he continues to falsely state that some people got inside information and bought buildings within duranguito and then made a profit on this inside information. I have heard him state this time and time again. The truth is that the city of El Paso paid an outside company $250,000 back in 2005 to provide a comprehensive study on the best possible locations for downtown projects. This study listed the best potential locations for an arena, a soccer stadium, etc. The duranguito neighborhood was listed on this report as the best potential site because of many factors, including it’s proximity to parking garages and it’s location directly on the proposed trolley line(which has since been built). This report was public information for anybody to see, I even remember looking at it a couple of different times. If a few people decided to buy some run down properties because a public report showed that neighborhood as being the best potential site for an arena then there is nothing wrong with that. That is called being smart, it is not being corrupt like Grossman falsely claims.
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Also, below was a different report from the city. It is funny how Grossman’s beloved Chinese Laundrymat(a restaurant at the time) was used specifically by the city on page 17 as a clear example of how the run down downtown area wasn’t contributing it’s fair share to the overall property tax base of the city. As examples showed starting on page 13, these run down downtown buildings, one of them over 46,000 square feet were, contributing the same property tax amount as some single family houses. We had a black hole downtown which was creating more of a property tax burden on the rest of the home owners compared to how other cities operate.
http://legacy.elpasotexas.gov/muni_clerk/agenda/04-03-07/0407-Downtown.pdf
http://legacy.elpasotexas.gov/muni_clerk/agenda/04-03-07/0407-Downtown.pdf
so all this bitching because of mountain star??? I have no idea what they did to you and grossman, but it must have been bad
No. Just saying that El Paso would be stupid to help Mountain Star build a soccer stadium for 20 games a year, after they already helped them with a baseball stadium. Mountain Star just bought their way into the Mexico 1st division, they have money. They can build their own stadium. Got it?
It’s insane the amount of BS the city is enduring for an arena. I feel like it’s been almost 20 years plus since there were rumors that it would be built at Bassett, Downtown and even Ascarate. I can’t even begin to think about them building a soccer stadium. We’re putting the cart before the horse big time on that one.
This fight has dragged on for so long and on so many different fronts, I am still confused as to whether or not it’s an arena or not.
This fight has dragged on for so long and on so many different fronts, I am still confused as to whether or not it’s an arena or not.
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