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Over recruiting

axingfools1

MI Miner Maniac
Nov 6, 2011
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With Barbee we saw some great freshman that he allowed to grow and then added pieces through JC transfers and D1 transfers. He did lose one player that wanted to play early, but other than that there were not many player issues that I remember. Unfortunately he left a year early when he had us on the brink of a top-25 team and possible perineal mid major winner. I really believe this would have happened if he stayed. I think he would have recruited well to replace his guards too.

With Floyd we saw over recruiting. The philosophy was to go after higher ranked players, take risks on fliers and try to replace the previously recruited. He hit on a few, but missed on many more and lost a ton of transfers. It didn't work at this level.

With Terry we are seeing him try to win early with flooding his team with transfers. He got rid of all the previous regime players after a transition year in hopes that his players would be an upgrade. Unfortunately (other than Williams) the transfers have not been a big upgrade. He has also pushed aside half of his initial freshman class and ALL of them have regressed.

Terry over recruited with Vila and Archie. He already had those positions filled with previous recruits that were doing just fine. Why recruit Vila when you already had 2 centers and 2 more bigs coming in? We possibly missed out on Braxton Meah as well because of this. Why recruit Archie when you brought in Tarke to play the 3 and you already have Stroud as your top freshman (a kid that was willing to wait a whole year to be on your team).

The BIGGEST mistake that Terry can make now is to lose Stroud by not playing him. If the reason we are not winning is because "we are young" then let Stroud play through it. We will see how good Kennedy and McGriff are next year (I expect Onyema to redshirt), but hopefully they get a fair shake too. No more over recruiting unless they are proven stud transfers or really high level freshman. Recruit to your needs and let your team grow. Bigger and better jobs won't come otherwise.
 
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Very nice. I believe the problem with this team is that the transfers were supposed to compliment our players not replace them. We had a nice core of freshmen players last season. I don’t know if any of them will be back next season.
 
With Barbee we saw some great freshman that he allowed to grow and then added pieces through JC transfers and D1 transfers. He did lose one player that wanted to play early, but other than that there were not many player issues that I remember. Unfortunately he left a year early when he had us on the brink of a top-25 team and possible perineal mid major winner. I really believe this would have happened if he stayed. I think he would have recruited well to replace his guards too.

With Floyd we saw over recruiting. The philosophy was to go after higher ranked players, take risks on fliers and try to replace the previously recruited. He hit on a few, but missed on many more and lost a ton of transfers. It didn't work at this level.

With Terry we are seeing him try to win early with flooding his team with transfers. He got rid of all the previous regime players after a transition year in hopes that his players would be an upgrade. Unfortunately (other than Williams) the transfers have not been a big upgrade. He has also pushed aside half of his initial freshman class and ALL of them have regressed.

Terry over recruited with Vila and Archie. He already had those positions filled with previous recruits that were doing just fine. Why recruit Vila when you already had 2 centers and 2 more bigs coming in? We possibly missed out on Braxton Meah as well because of this. Why recruit Archie when you brought in Tarke to play the 3 and you already have Stroud as your top freshman (a kid that was willing to wait a whole year to be on your team).

The BIGGEST mistake that Terry can make now is to lose Stroud by not playing him. If the reason we are not winning is because "we are young" then let Stroud play through it. We will see how good Kennedy and McGriff are next year (I expect Onyema to redshirt), but hopefully they get a fair shake too. No more over recruiting unless they are proven stud transfers or really high level freshman. Recruit to your needs and let your team grow. Bigger and better jobs won't come otherwise.
Good post.

I think Stroud, Hawkins, and Lathon bolt after the season.
 
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Good post.

I think Stroud, Hawkins, and Lathon bolt after the season.
I think the most reasonable transfer is Odigie. He is a proven double double guy at the D1 level and he didn't red shirt. Terry has basically thrown him to the curb. He could transfer and still have 2 good years elsewhere. My concern would be that Odigie leaves and then Williams. This would be ALL on Terry

I think it's very plausable that either one of Lathon or Hawkins leave (not both). Something has happened to Lathon and his playing time has dropped like a rock so I would guess him. This gives Stroud, Kennedy and McGriff more playing time as well.

Stroud not so much in my mind. It seems like Terry is starting to court him harder now and he is working his way into the lineup. Also dont forget that Stroud is a prop 48 so he only has 4 years to play 4 seasons. He is still an unproven commodity and if he sits out a year it is lost. His best bet is to stay the course. If he blows up he could always just stay and be a star player or grad transfer his senior year.
 
It's really a sad state of college athletics in which we call these kids amateurs, students, and dont pay them. But talk about them like professional athletes, like free agents. The athletes themselves look for the best basketball situation and not the best academic situation. They're chess pieces.

The athletes know that they have a short period of time to get to the league. If you enter the NBA draft at 22, you're ancient. You've reached your ceiling. Which puts a 18 year old kid in a mindset that they if they cannot start at 18, life is over.
 
One beer that two out of the three stay?
I agree. Of those 3 names the one that I think leaves is Hawkins. He’s a diva. He quit the team cuz he wasn’t getting enough minutes. Then came back when a player with real life issues left the team.
 
I agree. Of those 3 names the one that I think leaves is Hawkins. He’s a diva. He quit the team cuz he wasn’t getting enough minutes. Then came back when a player with real life issues left the team.
Either way, neither one has really led the team well. Overall the team has cut down on turnovers, but their assists and 3-point shooting flat out suck. Hawkins and Lathon are a combined 1-24 from 3 in conference.
 
I think the most reasonable transfer is Odigie. He is a proven double double guy at the D1 level and he didn't red shirt. Terry has basically thrown him to the curb. He could transfer and still have 2 good years elsewhere. My concern would be that Odigie leaves and then Williams. This would be ALL on Terry

I think it's very plausable that either one of Lathon or Hawkins leave (not both). Something has happened to Lathon and his playing time has dropped like a rock so I would guess him. This gives Stroud, Kennedy and McGriff more playing time as well.

Stroud not so much in my mind. It seems like Terry is starting to court him harder now and he is working his way into the lineup. Also dont forget that Stroud is a prop 48 so he only has 4 years to play 4 seasons. He is still an unproven commodity and if he sits out a year it is lost. His best bet is to stay the course. If he blows up he could always just stay and be a star player or grad transfer his senior year.
Didn't think about the Efe situation....

So. Much. Drama.
 
Either way, neither one has really led the team well. Overall the team has cut down on turnovers, but their assists and 3-point shooting flat out suck. Hawkins and Lathon are a combined 1-24 from 3 in conference.
Yes. I see Lathon, Hawkins, and Stroud always mentioned as the future departures. I think it’s fair to assume that because two of them entered the portal and one was rumored to. Time has given us a bit of clarity with that situation. The sky wasn’t falling. Lathon had and still has family issues he’s dealing with. Hawkins is getting the minutes he wants and Stroud was all hearsay. I don’t see Stroud wanting to sit out another year or go play D2 ball. He’s staying. Lathon’s family seem very happy with UTEP when I talked with them at the UNT game. The wildcard is Hawkins.
 
Either way, neither one has really led the team well. Overall the team has cut down on turnovers, but their assists and 3-point shooting flat out suck. Hawkins and Lathon are a combined 1-24 from 3 in conference.
I honestly can't remember the last time either one made a three point shot since conference play started. I must have missed that one make. Just that stat alone goes along way to show what is wrong with this team. The lack of assists, and inability to score at the rim are just icing on the cake.

On a side note, did UTEP/Terry ever announce the McGriff and Onyema signings? It is almost like they never happened.o_O
 
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Coming into the season I was all for Lathon 100%. I thought Hawkins would be the odd man out. Right now I have Hawkins over Lathon because of 1) His ability to attack the rim, shoot free throws and play tough defense up front/steals/block shots, etc... 2) Lathon was getting WAY to loose with his handle highlighted by the last 5 minutes of the Hawaii game. I wish the best for both players, but one or both guys need to take the reigns and start playing to their potential.
 
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I honestly can't remember the last time either one made a three point shot since conference play started. I must have missed that one make. Just that stat alone goes along way to show what is wrong with this team. The lack of assists, and inability to score at the rim are just icing on the cake.

On a side note, did UTEP/Terry ever announce the McGriff and Onyema signings. It is almost like they never happened.o_O
They never did announce these guys. Strange
 
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I know fingers are pointing at Terry, but Lathon's play has totally been a bust this year, his performance has little resemblance to last year and his play has not warranted more court time IMO. Odgie has been much the same to a lessor extent (he has had a few games where he looked solid) but others where he was lost. He hasn't developed as a player as I think he should have. Terry had to give each a lot of court time last year because he had nothing else, maybe they both over performed and as fans we saw the potential but not deficiency in their games.
 
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Sometimes I wonder if Stroud is like that backup QB everyone thinks is some hidden gem, then when he finally starts you see why he was a backup.

Reminds me of when a guy named Joe Griffin was being called the best point guard since Tim Hardaway.

Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see
 
They never did announce these guys. Strange
I think this is a clear sign that Terry could possibly make more roster moves even without having any of the current roster leave, similar to this year when he brought in Kennedy and Edwards late. That said, I doubt everyone on this year's team will be back, but I would expect all the transfers to stay (+Stroud). Terry's biggest task is ensuring Williams returns.
 
Stroud is oozing with athletic ability, but right now that's what it is athletic ability. In limited game time I have yet to see be proficient in any facet of the game, shooting, rebounding (close) or ball handling. In other words the skills needed at this level. Seen too many players who have this supreme athletic ability but never tame it into a complete game. No doubt if he can become proficient at all, or really good at one facet he will be a force, but he isn't there yet.
 
2) Lathon was getting WAY to loose with his handle highlighted by the last 5 minutes of the Hawaii game.
That's the only game where I saw that. Lathon's game has suffered this season in other aspects, but in my opinion he has handled the ball well, with the lone exception of that game.

Four assists and one turnover in the most recent game!
 
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Stroud is oozing with athletic ability, but right now that's what it is athletic ability. In limited game time I have yet to see be proficient in any facet of the game, shooting, rebounding (close) or ball handling. In other words the skills needed at this level. Seen too many players who have this supreme athletic ability but never tame it into a complete game. No doubt if he can become proficient at all, or really good at one facet he will be a force, but he isn't there yet.
Interesting stats for everybody. Stroud has played exactly 50 minutes in conference. Per 40 minutes played he is the team leader in 2 point makes and attempts and blocked shots. He is also tops in turnovers. He hasn't hit a single 3 pointer. Top scorers on the team per 40 minutes in conference are 1) Williams at 20ppg 2) Boum at 19ppg and 3) Stroud 18 ppg.

Bryson Williams projects to 20.4/9.2
Boum 19.3/1.8 assists/.893 freethrow
Stroud 18.4/4.8/3.2 blocks
Efe Odigie 17.2/12.2 (double double)
Edwards 13.5/2.4 assists/.35 3-point
Archie 10.3/3.4
Hawkins 10.1/5.1/2.9 assists
Tarke 7.8/13.7/3.9 steals
Verhoeven 6.8/4.5/2.3 steals
Vila 6.3/11.2/4.1 assists
Lathon 2.6/8.7/4.8 assists
 
With Barbee we saw some great freshman that he allowed to grow and then added pieces through JC transfers and D1 transfers. He did lose one player that wanted to play early, but other than that there were not many player issues that I remember. Unfortunately he left a year early when he had us on the brink of a top-25 team and possible perineal mid major winner. I really believe this would have happened if he stayed. I think he would have recruited well to replace his guards too.

With Floyd we saw over recruiting. The philosophy was to go after higher ranked players, take risks on fliers and try to replace the previously recruited. He hit on a few, but missed on many more and lost a ton of transfers. It didn't work at this level.

With Terry we are seeing him try to win early with flooding his team with transfers. He got rid of all the previous regime players after a transition year in hopes that his players would be an upgrade. Unfortunately (other than Williams) the transfers have not been a big upgrade. He has also pushed aside half of his initial freshman class and ALL of them have regressed.

Terry over recruited with Vila and Archie. He already had those positions filled with previous recruits that were doing just fine. Why recruit Vila when you already had 2 centers and 2 more bigs coming in? We possibly missed out on Braxton Meah as well because of this. Why recruit Archie when you brought in Tarke to play the 3 and you already have Stroud as your top freshman (a kid that was willing to wait a whole year to be on your team).

The BIGGEST mistake that Terry can make now is to lose Stroud by not playing him. If the reason we are not winning is because "we are young" then let Stroud play through it. We will see how good Kennedy and McGriff are next year (I expect Onyema to redshirt), but hopefully they get a fair shake too. No more over recruiting unless they are proven stud transfers or really high level freshman. Recruit to your needs and let your team grow. Bigger and better jobs won't come otherwise.

If CRT brings in better players, who cares?
 
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It's really a sad state of college athletics in which we call these kids amateurs, students, and dont pay them. But talk about them like professional athletes, like free agents. The athletes themselves look for the best basketball situation and not the best academic situation. They're chess pieces.

The athletes know that they have a short period of time to get to the league. If you enter the NBA draft at 22, you're ancient. You've reached your ceiling. Which puts a 18 year old kid in a mindset that they if they cannot start at 18, life is over.


You do pay them. It’s called college tuition — and don’t give me any crap about that’s not enough... you can come pay off my loans then...
 
You do pay them. It’s called college tuition — and don’t give me any crap about that’s not enough... you can come pay off my loans then...

Exactly. They are getting free tuition, free housing, and free food. They also have a chance to showcase themselves to make money at the next level for free.
 
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You do pay them. It’s called college tuition — and don’t give me any crap about that’s not enough... you can come pay off my loans then...
ya, you're not making millions of dollars for the NCAA. Why should the coaches be the only ones that are getting rich off of the TV, shoe contracts, etc on the backs of young black athletes.
 
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ya, you're not making millions of dollars for the NCAA. Why should the coaches be the only ones that are getting rich off of the TV, shoe contracts, etc on the backs of young black athletes.

Nobody forces any athlete to play.

Just black athletes?

So how do you propose that they get paid? Do all players from every sport get the same amount? How much do you think they should get paid every year?
 
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You do pay them. It’s called college tuition — and don’t give me any crap about that’s not enough... you can come pay off my loans then...

Yeah cuz I’m so sure you put in 80 hours a week throughout your 4-5 year education. These kids make less than minimum wage, genius. You have your opinion but it’s so far removed from the reality of things. Who do you know who played college basketball or football? If you aren’t actually friends with, or a family member of someone who played, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Zero!
 
Yeah cuz I’m so sure you put in 80 hours a week throughout your 4-5 year education. These kids make less than minimum wage, genius. You have your opinion but it’s so far removed from the reality of things. Who do you know who played college basketball or football? If you aren’t actually friends with, or a family member of someone who played, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Zero!

LOL 80 hours a week. Where do you get that number?
 
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Yeah cuz I’m so sure you put in 80 hours a week throughout your 4-5 year education. These kids make less than minimum wage, genius. You have your opinion but it’s so far removed from the reality of things. Who do you know who played college basketball or football? If you aren’t actually friends with, or a family member of someone who played, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Zero!

Fine. Let's offer no scholarships and have the athletes pay for everything. Tuition, room/board, use of the facilities, uniforms, sports equipment, trainers, transportation to games, etc.

Is that better?
 
It was actually over 80 hrs a week for 5 months of the year but for the sake of being conservative I’ll drop it to an average of 70 hours over a year’s time.

So you're telling me Monday-Friday for 5 months your son woke up at let's say 6 A.M. every day and went to sleep around 10 P.M. every day?

He never went to a movie, went on a date, watched TV, browsed the Internet, went out to eat, watched a sporting event, etc. during the week? Sorry, but I call BS on that.
 
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Fine. Let's offer no scholarships and have the athletes pay for everything. Tuition, room/board, use of the facilities, uniforms, sports equipment, trainers, transportation to games, etc.

Is that better?

For one, everyone I know who has earned a scholarship has been grateful for the opportunity and experience.

It’s funny though, because everyone has an opinion on the matter, especially those who have no idea of the time commitment involved.

You truly have no idea yet you’ll carry on in this conversation as if you are truly informed. Just from what you say, and how you say it, I know you’re not.
 
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For one, everyone I know who has earned a scholarship has been grateful for the opportunity and experience.

It’s funny though, because everyone has an opinion on the matter, especially those who have no idea of the time commitment involved.

You truly have no idea yet you’ll carry on in this conversation as if you are truly informed. Just from what you say, and how you say it, I know you’re not.

I gave you a solution. Let's pay the players and let them pay for all their expenses. You can't have it both ways.

I assume your stance is the players should be paid?
 
So you're telling me Monday-Friday for 5 months your son woke up at let's say 6 A.M. every day and went to sleep around 10 P.M. every day?

He never went to a movie, went on a date, watched TV, browsed the Internet, went out to eat, watched a sporting event, etc. during the week? Sorry, but I call BS on that.
So you're telling me Monday-Friday for 5 months your son woke up at let's say 6 A.M. every day and went to sleep around 10 P.M. every day?

He never went to a movie, went on a date, watched TV, browsed the Internet, went out to eat, watched a sporting event, etc. during the week? Sorry, but I call BS on that.

Yep at least 12-14 hour days. Actually started in the weight room at 5 am. You were close though. Monday -Friday? Lol. They didn’t get regularly scheduled days off. Maybe a day here or there once or twice a month.

Call whatever the **** you want. I don’t care.
 
Yep at least 12-14 hour days. Actually started in the weight room at 5 am. You were close though. Monday -Friday? Lol. They didn’t get regularly scheduled days off. Maybe a day here or there once or twice a month.

Call whatever the **** you want. I don’t care.

So out of curiosity, give me an example of a typical day since you have so much insight. Remember, they are working 14 hour days.

I used Monday-Friday because I was counting class time. But by all means, tell me how an athlete is working 14 hours a day on a typical Saturday or Sunday.
 
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So out of curiosity, give me an example of a typical day since you have so much insight. Remember, they are working 14 hour days.

I used Monday-Friday because I was counting class time. But by all means, tell me how an athlete is working 14 hours a day on a typical Saturday or Sunday.

Easily done. Not worth my my time to go back and forth with you on something you know nothing about but wouldn’t be able to admit so.
 
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