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Quitters?

David Hamm was a good one. He was our best back in the Spring. Not a good sign when so many players are leaving especially in the middle of a season and when they were recruited by the current staff.
 
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jdubb66 said:
David Hamm was a good one. He was our best back in the Spring. Not a good sign when so many players are leaving especially in the middle of a season and when they were recruited by the current staff.
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Article also cites RB Sloan Spiller as a leaver; as I recall, he is/was from Katy, Texas. Cannot vouch for his talent, but Katy HS is about as big-time as it gets in 6A Texas HS football...

Every case is generally unique, so who knows if there's a pattern, but it's really tough to get sympathetic over injuries and lack of depth when you're hemorrhaging quality football players in key positions in summer and mid-season. Guarantee THAT didn't happen under Price.

Not sure if these coaches are talking to these kids, what they're saying, or how they're saying it. But THIS is the staff that says it goes to the ends to vet player character before offering. Something's up and somebody knows something...
 
We should hire this guy to get to the bottom of it.

Keith-Morrison.jpg
 
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So 1 JC Transfer & 2 Freshman have quit this year, yet some of you think the sky is falling?

Isn't the national average around 40% of College Athletes on signing day will either not graduate or graduate from a different school than they originally signed with. Just look at the UTEP Basketball team, where as many as 4 of the 5 Starters this year could be guys who originally signed with different schools(Artis, Moore, Morris, and Jones), yet you guys are flipping out because only 3 football players quit? Quitters quit and/or they have legitimate reasons to leave, but at this point this number does not appear to be alarming to me.

Let the quitters leave and we will circle the wagons with the players who choose to stay and fight.
 
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I think the problem at running back is yhe program made Aaron Jones the face of the program. I think the thought was having a local kid the face of the program would drive ticket sales. I think Hamm thought the deck was stacked against him and he left. Now we have Hughes who was far and away the best player in camp. Its completely dumbfounding to me that Hughes isnt playing. He is way better than Dowell or Lafussa.

Its like they dont want a feature back other than Jones. Jones has missed games in all three seasons, he will miss games next year. He is good for 12-14 touches a game. We need a feature back. Hughes could get 100 yds a game against most cusa defenses. Until they allow competition at tailback and quit protecting Jones star status, backs are going to keep walking out the door.
 
Minerforlife said:
I think the problem at running back is yhe program made Aaron Jones the face of the program. I think the thought was having a local kid the face of the program would drive ticket sales. I think Hamm thought the deck was stacked against him and he left. Now we have Hughes who was far and away the best player in camp. Its completely dumbfounding to me that Hughes isnt playing. He is way better than Dowell or Lafussa.

Its like they dont want a feature back other than Jones. Jones has missed games in all three seasons, he will miss games next year. He is good for 12-14 touches a game. We need a feature back. Hughes could get 100 yds a game against most cusa defenses. Until they allow competition at tailback and quit protecting Jones star status, backs are going to keep walking out the door.
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According to Kugler Hughes will get more playing time now that he has improved in areas other than carrying the ball. He is a freshman and it is not unusual for freshmen to need time to work into the rotation. Your comments about Aaron Jones are simply nonsense. Jones became the "face" of the program because he is a gifted player, not because he is from El Paso. Kugler has said that Hughes is a talented guy, he just needed to learn the offense and develop as a player. Now that he has made improvement, he will get more playing time.
 
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UTEPDefense said:
So we are in the 10th month of this year and 1 JC Transfer & 2 Freshman have quit during this Calender Year, yet some of you think the sky is falling?

Isn't the national average around 40% of football players on signing day will either not graduate or graduate from a different school than they originally signed with, yet you guys are flipping out because only 3 players quit? Quitters quit and/or they have legitimate reasons to leave, but at this point this number does not appear to be alarming to me.

Let the quitters leave and we will circle the wagons with the players who choose to stay and fight.
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First, I don't see anybody on the board "flipping out" (especially me), just asking legitimate questions about an under-performing football program. Second, you REALLY need to check your UTEP numbers.
 
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@LaserCoog Here are the numbers from Kugler's Signing Classes(and this even updates the most recent quitters):

- From 3 years ago, he signed 18 Players and 14 are still playing for UTEP/Graduated from UTEP.

- From 2 years ago, he signed 23 Players and 17 are still playing for UTEP.

- Last Year, he signed 22 players and 20 are still playing for UTEP(including Gray Shirts).

So 81% of the kids that Kugler has signed since arriving at UTEP are either still playing for him or graduated under him. So I did check the numbers and they are pretty good! My guess is that very few schools around the country still have 81% of their last 3 Signing Classes, in fact, it is not unheard of for some schools to not even get 81% of their Signing Classes to just qualify, much less stay in the Program for 3 years(UTEP has been down that road many times before).
 
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UTEPDefense said:
@LaserCoog Here are the numbers from Kugler's Signing Classes:

- From 3 years ago, he signed 18 Players and 14 are still playing for UTEP/Graduated from UTEP.

- From 2 years ago, he signed 23 Players and 17 are still playing for UTEP.

- Last Year, he signed 22 players and 20 are still playing for UTEP(including Gray Shirts).

So 81% of the kids that Kugler has signed since arriving at UTEP are either still playing for him or graduated under him. So I did check the numbers and they are pretty good! My guess is that very few schools around the country still have 81% of their last 3 Signing Classes, in fact it is not unheard of for some schools to not even get 81% of their Signing Classes to qualify(UTEP has been there many times before).
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If that is the case, why is UTEP regressing?
 
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El Paso Chihuahuas said:
If that is the case, why is UTEP regressing?
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My guess is because the concerns about the Offense are legitimate, the fact is we are playing a Freshman QB, and the truth is that we lost our best player in addition to 12 players from the initial 2-Deep Depth Chart due to injury. Yes, it's frustrating, but I am not sure how many other Programs around the country would be faring much better given the above scenario?

Obviously we have concerns, but we are asking Kugler to do something that has never been done before, which is win consistently at this school. Not even the former National Coach of the Year could accomplish this goal in 9 years here. So I am willing to give Kugler more than 2 1/2 years to see if his big picture plan works before I start calling for his head, especially when his most recent season was a winning season.
 
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UTEPDefense said:
@LaserCoog Here are the numbers from Kugler's Signing Classes(and this even updates the most recent quitters):

- From 3 years ago, he signed 18 Players and 14 are still playing for UTEP/Graduated from UTEP.

- From 2 years ago, he signed 23 Players and 17 are still playing for UTEP.

- Last Year, he signed 22 players and 20 are still playing for UTEP(including Gray Shirts).

So 81% of the kids that Kugler has signed since arriving at UTEP are either still playing for him or graduated under him. So I did check the numbers and they are pretty good! My guess is that very few schools around the country still have 81% of their last 3 Signing Classes, in fact, it is not unheard of for some schools to not even get 81% of their Signing Classes to just qualify, much less stay in the Program for 3 years(UTEP has been down that road many times before).
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Wow, @Defense, my head is about to explode. :) Your original post specified 3 quits "this year", that period was the focus of my suggestion to check your data. And I do believe you'll find there have been more than 3 quits thus far during 2015 (players being dismissed and/or voluntarily walking away from their scholarships, 2 within the past week alone). Some posters were questioning the role of Kugler's "bed side manner" in that recent attrition, particularly at RB. But now that's obviously not the case.

Regardless, we can probably agree that players quitting during mid-season, especially those on the depth chart is hardly the norm. Especially two within the same week..
 
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I understand Coog. In my opinion, by the end of next season we will know if Kugler Ball can be succesful long-term at UTEP or not? Personally, I have always felt that a College Football Coach should be given at least 4 years to build a program, but I mutually respect if you feel that you have already seen enough. Either his style/stubborness/program building/etc. will work by that point or it won't and he will eventually be gone.
 
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Minerforlife said:
I think the problem at running back is yhe program made Aaron Jones the face of the program. I think the thought was having a local kid the face of the program would drive ticket sales. I think Hamm thought the deck was stacked against him and he left. Now we have Hughes who was far and away the best player in camp. Its completely dumbfounding to me that Hughes isnt playing. He is way better than Dowell or Lafussa.

Its like they dont want a feature back other than Jones. Jones has missed games in all three seasons, he will miss games next year. He is good for 12-14 touches a game. We need a feature back. Hughes could get 100 yds a game against most cusa defenses. Until they allow competition at tailback and quit protecting Jones star status, backs are going to keep walking out the door.
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Every time Hughes has touched the ball in a game he has run very hesitant. He has not adapted too well. If he was ready to play the coaches would put him in. They wouldn't be entertaining the idea of throwing in Kavika at RB.
 
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El Paso Chihuahuas said:
I disagree. Players can be coached up if the coaches do a good job.
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So True. Can you name anyone on the Patriots roster this year other than Brady and Gronk???? Bill Belichick is a great example of this.
Recruiting rankings are total BS. You can't put a rating on a player. The recruit ranking systems are just a business.
 
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Epsilon00 said:
So True. Can you name anyone on the Patriots roster this year other than Brady and Gronk???? Bill Belichick is a great example of this.
Recruiting rankings are total BS. You can't put a rating on a player. The recruit ranking systems are just a business.
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On the MNF game they mentioned a lot of the Seahawks played were undrafted. This happens in all areas of life. Being a 5 star athlete doesn't guarantee you success and being an unknown player out of high school or college doesn't mean you won't succeed. Just like graduating with a 4.0 doesn't mean you will have success and just because you have a 2.0 doesn't mean you will be a failure your whole life.
 
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Epsilon00 said:
So True. Can you name anyone on the Patriots roster this year other than Brady and Gronk???? Bill Belichick is a great example of this.
Recruiting rankings are total BS. You can't put a rating on a player. The recruit ranking systems are just a business.
Click to expand...

Bugging locker rooms helps tremendously too.
 
mextex915 said:
Every time Hughes has touched the ball in a game he has run very hesitant. He has not adapted too well. If he was ready to play the coaches would put him in. They wouldn't be entertaining the idea of throwing in Kavika at RB.
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Very true, but the young man is made of steel I hear. Do you remember that TT defensive back that tried to put a lick on Hughes but instead the TT player was laid out on the carpet with the wind knocked out of him? That and Jone's 96+/- yard TD run were two of the only best highlites of that game that I can remember.
 
Epsilon00 said:
Exactly. Fred Rouse was being compared to Randy Moss coming out of high school. And he wasn't even our 3rd best receiver when he played here.
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Rouse was such a distraction for the team he actually hurt UTEP. I remember watching a UTEP spring game and all he did was argue and talk poop with the players, and throw tantrums when he didn't get the ball. So fair point, however, turning UTEP into the EPISD Miners is making me a little concerned.
 
Haha the EPISD Miners was a good one. I agree with you, it is very concerning. I sure hope he is right on these players from EP because if not, we will drop to a David Lee type football program real fast and it will take us years to rebuild. In my opinion, Kugler is having difficulty recruiting QB's, RB's, WR's with his type of offense and he is having to reach on kids from EP. If you were a QB or WR, would you want to play in Kuglers offense???? Hell No.
 
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If you think recruit rankings mean nothing, then I have some property in the middle of the Atlantic to sell you.

Yes, not all recruits are ranked or evaluated properly, but that is the outlier rather than the average.

Fact is, teams in the top of the recruitment rankings almost always outperform teams in the bottom of the rankings. That isn't a coincidence.

And don't give me the whole "recruits get more stars when they go to power schools, and lose stars when they go to mid majors" argument. The big schools go after highly ranked/touted players-- and if you haven't noticed they generally whoop the dog shit out of us and our low ranked teams.

Yes you can coach players up but, but their ceiling will always be lower than a naturally gifted and dominate athlete.
 
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Yes recruit rankings mean nothing. Do you think Saban looks at these recruiting sites and cares which players are 5 stars????? n There is a reason why these recruiting sites charge a monthly subscription. I remember someone asked Price about recruiting sites and ranking stars to players and he said he doesn't even follow that. He said coaches have their own criteria they look for in a player. Its easy to identify who the elite high school players in the country are. Well ya ....the teams in the top of the rankings are teams like Alabama, Oregon, OU etc... so they will outperform schools on the bottom like us cause they can get these elite high school players. Its easy to evaluate and put 5 stars on a WR from Florida who is 6'3, 215 lbs.. and runs a 4.3 with a 41 inch vertical. But what about that WR's back up who is good but never gets to see the field because that guy is tearing it up every game and he only plays cause there is 8 minutes left in the game and the game is a blowout. But that guy will get a 2 star ranking because recruiting sites won't waste any time evaluating him because there is no film on him and his stats suck because he never plays. But Kugler offers him a scholarship because he has seen him practice and he has seen what little game time he has played but Kugler knows this guy is a hidden gem. He comes to UTEP and plays every game and tears it up. So with that being said, yes I think recruiting rankings are fairly accurate at an Alabama level because they get the best of the best, but in UTEP's level they are pointless. You can't put a ranking on thousands of high school players. And its stupid to follow a ranking on a player who has never played a down in college yet.
 
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Price took some Nord recruits and made them stars on the field (others he had transferred to small schools). Kugler has done the same thing with Price recruits.

Leslie, a former WR felt he did not fit in Kugler's run heavy offense, so he wen to BYwhoo. It's all about who fits best in the system you set up. Just at the FBS level, you have to be multi dimensional because the game has evolved to much and that's where Kugler shot himself in the foot. When you have a Jones in the backfield, football life is peachy. When you don't, the season turns into erosion and doesn't end fast enough.
 
Recruiting at UTEP level is extremely important as far as eyes on recruiting. You cant afford to miss with 1/4 of your program. It is essential to go see with your own eyes the player and have coaches you trust to know talent. At KU Mangino was a master at this whereas Weis thoughthe knew enough for the entire staff
 
There are some valid points being made by the posts but most are simply ignoring the realities of the status of Kugler's rehab job on the football program. One reality is that the program had disintegrated in Price's last 4 years. He had few quality recruits and there was a general attitude problem throughout the players who were here. Kugler had to address that issue when he came in. A second reality is that there was no depth and that takes time to correct. Third reality is that the AD had scheduled the first two games with SEC and Big 12 teams for the money. That was a critical error of judgement because the Miners suffered injuries to key players on both sides of the ball that they cannot replace at this stage. They had already lost key defensive players and had to start freshmen in the backfield. Finally, anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to look at the devastating injuries, youth of the backups and the state of building a program that was totally in the dumpster and realize that about all the coaching staff can do now is try to fill the holes with the best players available. That means we are going to have to measure progress in very small increments and hang in with support for the players and staff. Calling for "heads to roll" is simply stupid and solves nothing. Now if there is not noticeable improvement next year then that is a different animal all together.
 
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I honestly don't care what the coaches name is or is going to be. I just want whoever it is to be successful so that UTEP can have winning football program. If Kugler can somehow get this thing back on track, fine. If not then he needs to go. It does seem to me that if UTEP wants to win by running the ball it will likely have to be something off the wall like the option that Georgia Southern and GT run. Seems unlikely that UTEP can become a power running team like Alabama. Or better yet have an offense that wins and entertains the fans. If you are not going to play defense you better find a way to score a lot of points, ala WKU.
 
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