Some thoughts on Coach Tim Floyd

MinerManiac

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Here are some random thoughts on Coach Floyd, presented in no particular order:

- One thing that Floyd has done is prove himself to be great at crisis management. I can think of two seasons where Floyd has done a masterful job of coaching, though in each case it was only for part of the season: 2013-14 and 2016-17. In the former, the team started the season needing McKenzie Moore to play and play well in order to have any shot at a win. After he, Crossgile, and Ragland were kicked off of the team in the gambling scandal, it looked like the Miners' season was over. This seemed especially true as three players were playing out of position - C.J. Cooper (a 2 playing the 1 spot), Julian Washburn (a 3 playing the 2), and Vince Hunter (a 4 playing the 3) - and we had no depth in backcourt, requiring the Jones brothers to join the team. However, Floyd was able to convince us that a team doesn't really need guards, and made a nice run in conference, turning that season around. And, of course, we know what happened this season, recovering from a 12 game losing streak, many of those losses against incredibly weak teams, to become one the conference's best teams by season's end. Other than these two (partial) seasons, can anyone point to me a year that you can say that Floyd proved his worth as a coach?

- Back to this season: the Miners came into this season completely unprepared, and started 2-13 as a result, losing to the likes of NAU, SE Louisiana, and MD Eastern Shore. At one point they might have been the worst team in Div 1 basketball. That's on Coach Floyd. They then went 13-4, earning a top four seed in the conference tournament. Coach Floyd does, obviously, deserve a lot credit for that turnaround. So how do we grade his performance for the year? Well, he finished 15-17. I don't really think that he should earn a gold star for this season.

- As has been noted in several threads, when Floyd's "cavalry" arrives, we will be oversigned by at least two, and as many as five, players. And, if I'm not mistaken, he first made his cavalry comment when Adrian Moore was still on the team, which would have made this situation even worse. This, however, is not a new phenomenon: Floyd has over-recruited every single year that he's been here. Were you hoping that one of our young guards on the bench might develop over time? Too bad, they won't be here next season. They will end up transferring out, by Floyd's design. Yet, if a guy that Floyd wants keep, say Paul Thomas, were to transfer out, you'd hear Floyd crying about Millenials and the "transfer epidemic", and have some fans bemoaning Floyd's bad luck. Floyd's issues with transfers isn't the result of an epidemic or rotten luck, but simply the man reaping what he sows.

- Speaking of Floyd's "cavalry": have we seen any source, other than Floyd, that is so high on this class? I certainly hope that these guys can live up to that billing, but, as with all of Floyd's classes, I am taking a wait-and-see approach.

- Floyd's second half of the season coaching job brought him back in the favor of the administration (with whom he may never have been out of favor) and several of the fans and boosters who were questioning him before he made that run. This means that his job is safe and secure for at least another year. Does it deserve to be? Not in my book. But I would love for Floyd and the team to prove me wrong.
 

unihorn

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So you want him gone, but know he's staying, so you hope he does well.
 

miner1liner

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So you want him gone, but know he's staying, so you hope he does well.
I think Maniac is simply saying, "Like to see him go, since he's not done anything to deserve staying; but since we all know he's in fact staying...let's hope he can get the program turned around where it needs to be".
 

unihorn

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I think Maniac is simply saying, "Like to see him go, since he's not done anything to deserve staying; but since we all know he's in fact staying...let's hope he can get the program turned around where it needs to be".

Isn't that what I said?
 
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Next season is going to begin the same way this season began. It's lunacy to do the same things and expect different outcomes. Bring in a new coach & staff. End this madness.

We need a coach like Paul Weir. It's amazing in his first year he won the most amount of games in NMSU history. It probably won't be long before he goes to a bigger school.
 
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MinerJo

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Here are some random thoughts on Coach Floyd, presented in no particular order:

- One thing that Floyd has done is prove himself to be great at crisis management. I can think of two seasons where Floyd has done a masterful job of coaching, though in each case it was only for part of the season: 2013-14 and 2016-17. In the former, the team started the season needing McKenzie Moore to play and play well in order to have any shot at a win. After he, Crossgile, and Ragland were kicked off of the team in the gambling scandal, it looked like the Miners' season was over. This seemed especially true as three players were playing out of position - C.J. Cooper (a 2 playing the 1 spot), Julian Washburn (a 3 playing the 2), and Vince Hunter (a 4 playing the 3) - and we had no depth in backcourt, requiring the Jones brothers to join the team. However, Floyd was able to convince us that a team doesn't really need guards, and made a nice run in conference, turning that season around. And, of course, we know what happened this season, recovering from a 12 game losing streak, many of those losses against incredibly weak teams, to become one the conference's best teams by season's end. Other than these two (partial) seasons, can anyone point to me a year that you can say that Floyd proved his worth as a coach?

- Back to this season: the Miners came into this season completely unprepared, and started 2-13 as a result, losing to the likes of NAU, SE Louisiana, and MD Eastern Shore. At one point they might have been the worst team in Div 1 basketball. That's on Coach Floyd. They then went 13-4, earning a top four seed in the conference tournament. Coach Floyd does, obviously, deserve a lot credit for that turnaround. So how do we grade his performance for the year? Well, he finished 15-17. I don't really think that he should earn a gold star for this season.

- As has been noted in several threads, when Floyd's "cavalry" arrives, we will be oversigned by at least two, and as many as five, players. And, if I'm not mistaken, he first made his cavalry comment when Adrian Moore was still on the team, which would have made this situation even worse. This, however, is not a new phenomenon: Floyd has over-recruited every single year that he's been here. Were you hoping that one of our young guards on the bench might develop over time? Too bad, they won't be here next season. They will end up transferring out, by Floyd's design. Yet, if a guy that Floyd wants keep, say Paul Thomas, were to transfer out, you'd hear Floyd crying about Millenials and the "transfer epidemic", and have some fans bemoaning Floyd's bad luck. Floyd's issues with transfers isn't the result of an epidemic or rotten luck, but simply the man reaping what he sows.

- Speaking of Floyd's "cavalry": have we seen any source, other than Floyd, that is so high on this class? I certainly hope that these guys can live up to that billing, but, as with all of Floyd's classes, I am taking a wait-and-see approach.

- Floyd's second half of the season coaching job brought him back in the favor of the administration (with whom he may never have been out of favor) and several of the fans and boosters who were questioning him before he made that run. This means that his job is safe and secure for at least another year. Does it deserve to be? Not in my book. But I would love for Floyd and the team to prove me wrong.

Way too long of a post to say what everyone already knows! What are the fans going to do about fixing the program? No, signs aren't going to fire a coach. No, staying home isn't either.
 

MinerJo

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We need a coach like Paul Weir. It's amazing in his first year he won the most amount of games in NMSU history. It probably won't be long before he goes to a bigger school.
Menzies coached here to. See that now he coaches in a decent conference now. See that he is not coaching a team in the tournament. Apples, orangea
 

MinerManiac

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So you want him gone, but know he's staying, so you hope he does well.

That is certainly a nice, concise summary of part of what I'm saying. There are, however, some other points that I was hoping that some would address:

- The two examples that I mentioned were the only times that I can recall that a Floyd team played as more than the sum of its parts. In 2013-14, for example, CJ was awful before the gambling crisis occurred, much better afterwards. Julian, as he was often wont to do, focused primarily on defense to begin the season, but was much more aggressive offensively in the second half of the season. Bo was never more consistent than he was the second half of that year. And this season, of course, it doesn't appear like the team bought into what Floyd was trying to sell until we were at rock bottom at 2-13. These two examples make it obvious that Floyd still knows the game and still has the ability to bring out the best in his players. I just don't understand why he hasn't been able to do so with the exception of these two crises. I would appreciate any insight that someone might have.

- There are still members of this board that talk about Floyd's bad luck, and about how he is a victim of the mindset of today's players and the transfer epidemic. I believe that he is part of the problem. Like I said in a post several months ago, there is a reason why the old 5-8 rule was nicknamed the Tim Floyd rule. I would really like someone who believes that Floyd is a victim of rotten luck to address this issue.

- I would love for someone to produce a source outside of the program and its fandom that says that we have a stellar class coming in. I know that such praise is often meaningless, that this class will ultimately prove it's efficacy on the court, but still, it would make me feel better to see that an unbiased source supports Floyd's claim that help is on the way.

Way too long of a post to say what everyone already knows! What are the fans going to do about fixing the program? No, signs aren't going to fire a coach. No, staying home isn't either.

What can fans do to fix the problem? Several expressed their displeasure to Dr. Natalicio and Bob Stull. From what we've been led to believe, even at 2-13 Floyd's job wasn't in jeopardy. The powers that be seem to be perfectly happy with mediocrity, and are asking the fans to follow suit. Those of us that aren't satisfied with the team's lack of success over the last seven years can continue to make our voices heard, but, unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it will make a difference. Still, to me, pointing out the flaws in the current regime is better than sitting back and quietly accepting that this once proud program is destined to be irrelevant for the foreseeable future.
 

PURPLEFIRE

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Sorry but I think we will be good to damn good next year!!!

Bad luck = 3 players being kicked off the team for gambling

Vince hunter letting someone get in his ear and him leaving early when he was no where near ready and everyone knew it

Lee Moore doing the same thing!!

Wynn having attitude issues ....


Those are three really good players that should have been on this team!!

Not getting Hamilton and hunter together which would have Been awesome

Wilms being hurt over and over
Mcswiggan leaving over his girlfriend and not being cleared his first year

And I think I am missing a few but don't have time!

And I know all the replies I am gonna get are its normal or tim floyds fault but all of this was out of his control and that is bad luck been watching basketball for a long time and keep track with several teams and have never seen a patch like this ....
 

kickballpro

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Sorry but I think we will be good to damn good next year!!!

Bad luck = 3 players being kicked off the team for gambling

Vince hunter letting someone get in his ear and him leaving early when he was no where near ready and everyone knew it

Lee Moore doing the same thing!!

Wynn having attitude issues ....


Those are three really good players that should have been on this team!!

Not getting Hamilton and hunter together which would have Been awesome

Wilms being hurt over and over
Mcswiggan leaving over his girlfriend and not being cleared his first year

And I think I am missing a few but don't have time!

And I know all the replies I am gonna get are its normal or tim floyds fault but all of this was out of his control and that is bad luck been watching basketball for a long time and keep track with several teams and have never seen a patch like this ....

Seems like you're trolling with this narrative. We all know your POV.
 

MinerManiac

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Sorry but I think we will be good to damn good next year!!!

I hope that you're right. If someone can adequately fill in for DA, and a couple of more players can at least provide some depth, then we should be fine. But will this recruiting class live up to Floyd's "cavalry" comments? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

Bad luck = 3 players being kicked off the team for gambling

All of us were still on the Tim Floyd bandwagon back in 2013, and all felt bad for him. I certainly don't remember anyone criticizing him at the time for this scandal. But, even then, I thought about what would have been said if this had happened under Barbee's watch. I guarantee that Barbee would have received a ton of criticism, with fans accusing him of recruiting players with bad character. Now I'm not saying that this scandal is Floyd's fault, just that it would have been viewed much differently if a coach less popular than Floyd was at the time had been in charge during that scandal.

Vince hunter letting someone get in his ear and him leaving early when he was no where near ready and everyone knew it

Here is what everyone, with the apparent exception of Floyd, knew all season: Hunter was looking at leaving for the NBA. There were a ton of posts about it on MinerDigs. Jeff Darby referenced this in the tweets during the NIT game that should have resulted in his firing. Yet, when he left, Floyd said that he had no idea that Vince was looking to go pro. Floyd needed to be much more aware of what was going on, and worked at convincing Vince that he was not yet ready for the NBA, and that he (Floyd) could get him there with at least one more season.

There is a precedent for this. After his freshman season people were in Moultrie's ear convincing him that he was ready for the NBA. Barbee said during that offseason that his best job of recruiting was convincing Moultrie to stay. Barbee knew what was going on with a key player in his program, and responded accordingly. Floyd had no idea, and lost the player.

Lee Moore doing the same thing!!

From Moore's quotes after entering the draft he knew that he had long odds to make the NBA, and was planning on playing overseas. No American kid grows up dreaming of playing basketball in Europe, Asia, or South America. Moore's decision has to make you wonder if the relationship between he and Floyd was broken.

Wynn having attitude issues ....

This is a he said/he said situation. I don't know who's at fault here.

Those are three really good players that should have been on this team!!

Vince left a couple of seasons ago. Floyd has had two recruiting classes to replace him. Losing Moore and Winn definitely hurt. If Floyd would have had the team prepared to play at the beginning of the season, and had Moore and Winn on the roster, this year would have started completely different. Of course, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts ...

Not getting Hamilton and hunter together which would have Been awesome

Floyd has had more then enough time to recruit a replacement for Hamilton.

Wilms being hurt over and over
Mcswiggan leaving over his girlfriend and not being cleared his first year

Willms issues are unfortunate. We don't yet have an idea what type of player McSwiggan will be.

And I think I am missing a few but don't have time!

And I know all the replies I am gonna get are its normal or tim floyds fault but all of this was out of his control and that is bad luck been watching basketball for a long time and keep track with several teams and have never seen a patch like this ....

Honestly, some injuries and turnover is normal for every program. The turnover under Floyd's watch, however, has been well above normal. You argue that it's all bad luck. I argue that Floyd is largely to blame.

Thanks for your response.
 

MineroFanatico

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Maniac, its like you excavated the depths of my own mind, pulled out the artifacts and relics of thought and idea, carefully and skillfully dusted them off, and put them out for on exhibit for all to see. For your work, I thank thee.

Put another way, you took the garbled words right out of my mouth and made them coherent. Well said!
 

PURPLEFIRE

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I have never understood the whole tim Floyd is oversigning and what you all see in that

First off most of you all know I follow Oregon football and the first thing our new football coach came in and told his players is look I have got to start recruiting and I am going to go recruit players to come take your jobs and it is your job to keep it!!!!

It creates competition which elevates your team!

Second which played has Floyd run off??

Broderick's jones wasn't he around the time of hunter??
Lee stallworth he might be the only one I can think that could be a possibility
Lee moore went pro
Hunter went pro
Mcswiggan left for his gf
Moore left for his family
That other guy that never made it got homesick

I could be wrong but what guys have we kicked off the team?
 

PURPLEFIRE

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And from what it sounds like to me a few of the kids will have a hard time with grades which would probably lend themselves to prop 48 players wouldn't it? Which wont count until the following season if they stuck around?? I don't ever remember Floyd running anyone off
 

FeralFelidae

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Broderick's jones wasn't he around the time of hunter??
Lee stallworth he might be the only one I can think that could be a possibility
Lee moore went pro
Hunter went pro
Mcswiggan left for his gf
Moore left for his family
That other guy that never made it got homesick

I could be wrong but what guys have we kicked off the team?

Terry Winn? We're not entirely sure what happened there.

It's not a hard cull; it's a soft cull, giving players passive encouragement (or perhaps discouragement) to move on, running them off. And some of those players Floyd would surely have preferred to stay, but they all see how he does business. We know from Floyd's recruiting class that some of the players will not be back; I just say that doesn't inspire loyalty. It's hard to blame the players.

The Big 10 signs all its scholarship basketball players to 4-year schollies. My other team, Northwestern (which just made its FIRST EVER NCAA tournament this season!), is paying the way for a former player (Vassar) who isn't even on the team anymore! They have a commitment to honor. But just about everybody else sticks around for the long-haul. Oversigning really isn't an option, but it's so much easier to build a team without all the turnover every year.
 
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MinerManiac

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I have never understood the whole tim Floyd is oversigning and what you all see in that

First off most of you all know I follow Oregon football and the first thing our new football coach came in and told his players is look I have got to start recruiting and I am going to go recruit players to come take your jobs and it is your job to keep it!!!!

It creates competition which elevates your team!

Second which played has Floyd run off??

Broderick's jones wasn't he around the time of hunter??
Lee stallworth he might be the only one I can think that could be a possibility
Lee moore went pro
Hunter went pro
Mcswiggan left for his gf
Moore left for his family
That other guy that never made it got homesick

I could be wrong but what guys have we kicked off the team?

Here is a partial list of players who have committed but not signed; signed and not shown up to campus; signed, showed up to campus, but didn't play; and signed, showed up to campus, played, but did not complete their eligibility with UTEP:

Dwayne Benjamin
Josh Brown
D'Von Campbell
Shaq Carr
Justin Crosgile
Isaac Hamilton
Rashanti Harris
Michael Haynes
Twymond Howard
Vince Hunter
Tim Jacobs
Marqywell Jackson
Anthony January
Buddha Jones
Desmond Lee
Mitch Marquis
Adrian Moore
Lee Moore
McKenzie Moore
Darius Nelson
Mike Perez
Jalen Ragland
Chris Sandifer
Andre Spight
Lew Stallworth
Jacob Thomas
Darnell Vandivort
Chris Washburn
Dustin Watts
Kenny Williams
Terry Winn

Certainly there are some players whose departure you cannot blame on Floyd. Still, this is a rather extensive list, and much of it is the product of Floyd's over recruiting.

PURPLEFIRE, do you remember the 5/8 rule? It was an NCAA rule in place from 2001 to 2004, which allowed a basketball team to sign no more than five players in any one recruiting class, and no more than a total of eight in any two consecutive recruiting classes. It was designed to prevent schools from doing just what Floyd has done with UTEP. Back in 2001, when enacted, it was given a nickname that I didn't understand at the time: the Tim Floyd rule. The reason behind the nickname is abundantly clear now.
 

unihorn

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One advantage Floyd has is it's easier to get players admitted and keep players academically eligible at UTEP than it is at many other D1 schools.
 

PURPLEFIRE

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A lot depends on how these new kids adapt to dig 1 hoops I will tell you after the first couple exhibitions sound good?
 

JudenSmithFan

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How do we even know the McSwiggan-left-for-his-girlfriend narrative is actually true? The only people we have seen saying that are on the UTEP staff. I'm thinking we only have heard one side of the story there.

The fact is, McSwiggan lost a year of eligibility because the UTEP staff screwed things up. They assured McSwiggan he was going to be able to play as a freshman even though he was in clear violation of an NCAA rule by attending an extra year of high school in England. This was not a case of the NCAA screwing over UTEP, it was a case where the guy was clearly in violation. There was no way he was ever going to be able to play as a freshman, but the Miner coaches told him he would. This means either the UTEP coaches lied to McSwiggan, or they weren't familiar with the NCAA rules. So either they're liars, or they're incompetent. Neither possibility reflects well on Floyd, and if I were McSwiggan, I would have been really pissed at UTEP for misleading me.

All I'm saying is, losing McSwiggan is probably not "bad luck." The only person repeating the girlfriend story is Tim Floyd. It seems entirely probable that McSwiggan transferred because of a hard-to-forgive screw-up by the UTEP staff.
 
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PURPLEFIRE

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Sounds good. I can't wait when you say UTEP is going to make the Sweet 16 because you have been right every year.


And it's the same as your crap it's sooo easy to predict utep will not go to the big dance and bang your chest when you know uteps chance of making the dance is 1 out of 14...... Nostradamus

Bet you will also pick North Carolina will beat Texas southern in the NCAA tournament....
 
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JCorona

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If they can have another solid season in the conference and earn the bye then it's a one in four chance of making the dance. Since 15 out of the last 16 autobids have come from one of the top four seeds. The only exception being that #7 seed Houston in Tulsa.
 
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And it's the same as your crap it's sooo easy to predict utep will not go to the big dance and bang your chest when you know uteps chance of making the dance is 1 out of 14...... Nostradamus

Bet you will also pick North Carolina will beat Texas southern in the NCAA tournament....

Not at all. I don't state the same things over and over again thinking they're going to happen. I really hope UTEP makes the Big Dance next year and I hope they can finally win a game. Do I predict that? No I do not.

It is so easy saying every year UTEP will go to the Big Dance and then the one year you're right you can say "I told you so".
 

centex-miner

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I think the one and done situation in college affects UTEP and most mid majors in that it concentrates the talent at the big schools. The big schools will continuously get the talent (i.e. Kentucky) without it being dispersed throughout Division I......I think it is a joke and travesty.....

Heck, Kentucky Basketball's Guidance Counselor has one of the Hardest Jobs in Sports../S..........check out the video.


 

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