Still looking for answers to these questions

STCarlosEP

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When was the last time UTEP beat a team that made the Final 4 in the same season?

How did Tony Barbee bring a regular season CUSA championship and at-large NCAA berth to UTEP in 4 seasons and BG did it in 2, but an experienced head coach has not been able to do it in 5? Not to mention Tony and Billy were first time head coaches and did it in much tougher leagues.

What has UTEP football and basketball accomplished in the last 20 years? How does this compare with teams in lesser leagues, fewer fans, and worse facilities?

How did LaTech come in and win 2 CUSA regular season championships their first 2 years in the league? They came from an "inferior" league, and their coach did not have the experience or recruiting budget that Floyd does. They also don't average half of what UTEP does for their home games.
 
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MistaBinks

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It's summer, so why not.

BG and staff were the perfect storm and the real deal. They had the coaching and the recruiting. I'm not going to dump on Floyd & Company in order to say BG was successful. Fair is fair. If the 1966 'ship and 1992 Sweet Sixteen accomplishment are irrelevant now, then how/why BG was successful has nothing to do with Floyd' s struggle now.

I was a big Barbee fan. I liked the guy and have no problems with anything he did. I never saw any disconnect from him. Just my experience. My opinion only, but I credit him with building a CBI level team. They were one of the most popular ever but, to me, they were CBI level. Then DC fell in their laps. I credit Barbee & his staff for being able to grab him. That NCAA miner team was night and day between the first semester (no DC) and the second w/ DC.

I refuse to say or agree that Doc or Barbee built NCAA teams.
 

STCarlosEP

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The 66 and 92 accomplishments are irrelevant now because those were done by the same coach.

BG got us to the tourney in 2 years and Floyd hasn't in 5. The length of time it took the coaches to get there is way different than UTEPs success from 66-92. You're smart enough to see the difference right?

You refuse to say Barbee built an NCAA team? He recruited DC. If you think DC would have come here without Barbee, that's just delusional. No player would play for a coach they didn't like in a situation like DCs. Floyd was one win away from taking Barbee's players to the NCAAs. He blew it though. To say that Barbee didn't build a team is ridiculous. Probably racially motivated.
 
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STCarlosEP

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That's the only reason I could think of why someone wouldn't give credit to a coach who improved his win total every year, won a regular season conference title, and made the NCAAs.

Why don't you answer the questions?
 
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PURPLEFIRE

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Floyd had a shell of barbees team he did not have caracter who was by far the best player on the team or moultrie or one of the guards......
 

PURPLEFIRE

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What questions? Barbee built a good team there is no question but the way he did it hurt utep after he left without question
 

MistaBinks

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Tony Barbee took the Miners to the NCAA tourney. Tim Floyd hasn't. I started buying season tickets during Barbee's regime. I liked the dude. I rooted for him at Auburn. To me, there is a difference between building an NCAA level team and simply taking a team to the tournament. I know the argument and reply coming but was last season's UAB squad an NCAA level team?

In my opinion only, Tony Barbee built a CBI level team. We were lucky DC became available. As I said in my first post, I credit Barbee for being able to recruit and sign him. Floyd was one win away from taking Barbee's CBI team to the NCAA tourney. Floyd didn't have DC so Floyd didn't have Barbee's NCAA team.

Like I said, it's summer and the children are bored. Let's go round and round again. We got time. Why did BG go to the tourney in two years when TF hasn't in five? Because he did. There is no sound answer. If this is one's excuse to bash on TF then go at it! BG got it done. TF hasn't yet.
 

STCarlosEP

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UAB won the CUSA tournament and won games when it mattered. Any team that makes their conference tourney has a shot at winning the bid.

CBI level team? Which players currently on the UTEP roster are better than Culpeper and Stone? Would you rather have Willms and Vint or Bohannon on the team next year?

That's pretty sad a guy with no D1 head coaching experience can come in and win in his 2nd year, taking on Rabs mess, but a proven college and NBA coach can't clean up Barbee's "mess" in 5.
 
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Epsilon00

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Floyd is the one building CBI level team. Facts don't lie. Plus Barbee made the NCAA Tourney in a much tougher CUSA. back in the old CUSA, Memphis was a solid top 25 team every year and in 3 years Barbee had UTEP at almost the same level as Memphis. We could go toe to toe with Memphis every game.

Barbee's NCAA Tourney team was more than DC. Barbee's NCAA tourney team had a true PG and a leader out on the basketball court in Julian Stone. Floyd's teams have lacked a true leader and a true PG. He has had 4 years to fix this but hasn't. Barbee's team had players who could shoot. Floyd's teams have no consistent shooters.
 

kickballpro

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It is hard to make a case for Tim Floyd. But maybe since Dominic Artis "fell into his lap" we can start seeing some success on the biggest stage.

The upcoming season features a roster that's largely unproven. We've lost majority of our points and rebounds. I think we only return 4 players in Vint, Willms, Morris, and Harris. Not exactly a foundation.

But even though this team enters with a ton of questions, I think the answers are on the Roster. I am excited for the upcoming season. but I've been excited for Floyd's other seasons.

Back to previous coaches, I was excited for Billy's second year, I was excited for Doc's first and Tony's 3rd and 4th. I was cringing for Rab's 3rd. But all of the coaches since has Haskins and prior to Floyd, the team had a direction. I've been curious as to the direction this program has been heading over the last 5 years. I don't know if we're going to be good or not or when. I don't know. And that's the Floyd era.
 

HookemMiners

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Gillispie and Barbee built teams. Floyd has built a program. Floyd has built his program with mostly high school kids. Yes, I expected quicker results, but truly, this past season was for me, the first truly disappointing one in terms of expectations.

Gillispie and Barbee went the JC route to win quickly. They both did that successfully, and it got them to a higher profile job. Floyd is building for the future. 90% of Barbee's last team were in one class (they were all juniors). His plan was to have them make a run their senior year, and cash in at big school, and leave the cupboard empty for the next coach. He got the call a year early, and Floyd inherited a talented team, but a team built for Barbee's (Calipari's) system, not Floyd. He then had to start from scratch to build a program from the bottom up. I believed this past season would be the year to get over the hump and get to the tourney. It didn't happen, but I still have faith that he'll get us there. If we don't make the tourney this coming season, then his seat will start getting hot in my opinion.
 

PURPLEFIRE

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Now in my opinion that Floyd has fixed the roster problem and has staggered the classes from this point out we should be top 3 in the league every year even if we have a bad recruiting class... On that note I expect Floyd will now b able to focus on getting classes like he did this year which is considered the best in cusa
 

kickballpro

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Gillispie and Barbee built teams. Floyd has built a program. Floyd has built his program with mostly high school kids.
It appears that 3/5 of the starting line-up will be transfers. Artis, Moore, and Morris. Artis and Moore were kicked out of their previous programs and Morris is at his third school. In addition, majority of his his high school recruits have failed to play 4 seasons.

Floyd has tried to build a program on paper, but it hasn't really worked out that way.
 

STCarlosEP

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Gillispie and Barbee built teams. Floyd has built a program. Floyd has built his program with mostly high school kids. Yes, I expected quicker results, but truly, this past season was for me, the first truly disappointing one in terms of expectations.

Gillispie and Barbee went the JC route to win quickly. They both did that successfully, and it got them to a higher profile job. Floyd is building for the future. 90% of Barbee's last team were in one class (they were all juniors). His plan was to have them make a run their senior year, and cash in at big school, and leave the cupboard empty for the next coach. He got the call a year early, and Floyd inherited a talented team, but a team built for Barbee's (Calipari's) system, not Floyd. He then had to start from scratch to build a program from the bottom up. I believed this past season would be the year to get over the hump and get to the tourney. It didn't happen, but I still have faith that he'll get us there. If we don't make the tourney this coming season, then his seat will start getting hot in my opinion.
So BG and Barbee only built teams, not programs? Don't you think that would have a little to do with them leaving for better jobs? Which Floyd has tried to do, but without any success. Lucky for fans like you I guess.

Good point about the JC guys! Randy Culpepper, Julyian Stone, and Arnette Moultrie were all recruited from Memphis area JCs right? Which JC players did Barbee rely heavily on? Corey Speight? Ummm, who else?

That's funny you try to justify the JC thing, but yet Floyd recruits JCs every year and fans like you are touting Train Man as the one that will lead us to the NCAAs this year.

Floyd's seat will never be hot because there's fans that buy season tickets blindly and keep coming up with excuses for him.
 

STCarlosEP

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It appears that 3/5 of the starting line-up will be transfers. Artis, Moore, and Morris. Artis and Moore were kicked out of their previous programs and Morris is at his third school. In addition, majority of his his high school recruits have failed to play 4 seasons.

Floyd has tried to build a program on paper, but it hasn't really worked out that way.
Wow 3/5! Good thing he doesn't rely heavily on JCs like Barbee and BG did. I hate winning in the short term. I would much rather have a coach that takes 7 or 8 years to make the tournament by "building it the right way" than going every 2 or 4 years.
 
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Haskins Fan

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Stupid Carlos do you get a boner every time you talk shit about Coach Floyd?
Inquiring minds want to know!

Go Miners...
 

jamasterj

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Stupid Carlos do you get a boner every time you talk shit about Coach Floyd?
Inquiring minds want to know!

Go Miners...
Right, this dude spews the saaaame crap over and over, but yet, "UTEP Athletics does not consume his life"...lol,really, could have fooled me. Who's he trying to convince anyway, there's only a couple of others that agree with him and the rest of us just shake our heads in the futility of his posts. What a tool, lol.
 

STCarlosEP

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Unless you guys want to defend your homer friends, please don't post your insults and profanity. Isn't that against the board rules?

Haskinsfan, I suggest you use this time to read up on Doc Sadler, since you were unaware he was the coach at Southern Miss. Mr Big Miner Fan you!
 

shyminer81

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Who popped your firework, Carlos!!! lol Come on at least wait until after the 4th...
 

Epsilon00

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Gillispie and Barbee built teams. Floyd has built a program. Floyd has built his program with mostly high school kids. Yes, I expected quicker results, but truly, this past season was for me, the first truly disappointing one in terms of expectations.

Gillispie and Barbee went the JC route to win quickly. They both did that successfully, and it got them to a higher profile job. Floyd is building for the future. 90% of Barbee's last team were in one class (they were all juniors). His plan was to have them make a run their senior year, and cash in at big school, and leave the cupboard empty for the next coach. He got the call a year early, and Floyd inherited a talented team, but a team built for Barbee's (Calipari's) system, not Floyd. He then had to start from scratch to build a program from the bottom up. I believed this past season would be the year to get over the hump and get to the tourney. It didn't happen, but I still have faith that he'll get us there. If we don't make the tourney this coming season, then his seat will start getting hot in my opinion.
What program is Floyd building here??????? Floyd has had the opportunity to recruit a senior, junior, sophomore, and freshman class here and hasn't done anything. 5 years here and we are getting spanked by Murray State in the first round of the NIT. He has won 0 CUSA regular season titles, can't beat Middle Tennessee in the CUSA Tournament. I am curious what "program" he is building in an easy CUSA??????

Floyd has been trying to land a high profile job since he has been here. At least BG, Doc, and Barbee departed when UTEP was a NCAA Tourney team. Floyd will leave UTEP w/o doing anything here. The only thing keeping Floyd from leaving is nobody is going to hire a coach who can't do anything in a weak CUSA.

Programs are built by winning conference regular season titles and making the NCAA Tournament. Floyd is just building teams.

Barbee program was built with 99% high school players.
 
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I am going to throw in my opinion here. Floyd's grade at UTEP should be either a C+/B-. He caught a really bad bread with the gambling thing. Barbee caught a really good break with Derrick Character. It is a little easier for an up and coming coach from a big time program to recruit than an older coach that hadn't been in the college game for a while. BG had strong connections because of his ties to Bill Self and Barbee had the tie to Calipari. Barbee go the Memphis kids because he had known them since they were much younger and attended camps at Memphis. Once he was away from Memphis for a while he wasn't able to recruit as well, which led to his failure at Auburn. BG was a great coach and recruiter. He was on level with Haskins but he couldn't handle the pressure at Kentucky. I think Floyd is trying to build the program but he has one major problem. He is way too stubborn. I'm not sold on Johnson as a top assistant nor am I impressed with Braswell. Floyd also seems to think that UTEP has such superior talent that he shouldn't have to adjust to other teams, which has led to La. Tech kicking our ass the past two years. I will say that I never liked Barbee as a person. When he said the Basketball on the Bario camp competed with his camp and refused to help them out I lost a lot of respect for him. The only coach I was sorry to see leave UTEP was BG. If Doc had stayed one more year the program would have been pretty bad. If Barbee had stayed two more years it would have been bad also. Floyd does need to get UTEP to the NCAA either this year or next. Carlos has some good points but he fails recognize the shortcomings of Doc or Barbee the way he finds them in Floyd. The question I have is this. If UTEP was to get rid of Floyd and the program would go to less than 20 wins for two years only to make the NCAA tournament in year three would it be worth it? Could UTEP do better than Floyd? My answer would be yes but I also think things could be a lot worse.
 

STCarlosEP

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Yes it would be worth it Stan. If you look at well known basketball programs around the country, getting to the Dance is the only thing. 20 wins is not an accomplishment any more. NJIT won games last year.

Getting the the Dance in year 3 is a great accomplishment, especially considering Floyd hasn't in 5.

You're also right that they could do better or they could do a lot worse. That is the "Price" you could pay. You can have solid years with NIT or CBI disappointments or you could get to the NCAAs.

That was the argument for keeping Price around so long wasn't it? Seems to me like Kugler is on his way up, while Price was mediocre and UTEP kept buying his bull.

We might swing and miss on a Floyd replacement but who knows. That is a chance you have to take.
 

MistaBinks

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The argument regarding Price was on message boards and social media. In reality, there was no debate. UTEP could not afford to fire Price, pay his contract, and hire a new coach. Nobody was fooled or settled.
 

unihorn

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The answer is Floyd gets a longer leash because he's a "favorite son" with ties to the glory days of the basketball program. There are countless examples of such hires in college sports such as David McWilliams at Texas. Like McWilliams, however, Floyd will ultimately need to win on a bigger stage to keep his job.

I hadn't yet returned to El Paso when BG and DS were here, but did attend most of the games when TB was here, including the NCAA game vs. Butler in San Jose. I'm glad I did -- it was a heck of a lot of fun watching that season unfold. Typically, the home crowds only got big late that year when it was obvious something special was happening. And unlike other fair weather fans, I didn't bitch about the loss to Butler or stop going during the rebuilding years that followed. It all comes down to what kind of fan you are. "Hardliners" only value winning. True fans enjoy the journey and experience, and the winning is sweeter for them when it comes.
 

Tribalwarriorx

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I'm still trying to figure out why UTEP hired Tim Floyd. Too bad Larry Brown was released later in the year by the Bobcats. That would've been a great hire for the school. Tim Floyd, meh, not so much.
 
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