Why the high expectations for Kugler but not Floyd?

[Epsilon00]

After reading the different boards, there are a lot of people furious with Kugler. He deserves some criticism because of how the team has played these past 2 weeks. As a fan, you always expect improvement from year to year. Our first 2 games have been against teams that everyone knew would be 2 loses. But like I said, a lot of people are pissed off. UTEP football has been one the worst programs for decades. Kugler has been here for 3 years and has one winning season already. He is undefeated against NMSU. He has done pretty well according to UTEP football standards. People are putting the blame on Kugler with no excuses.

UTEP is a basketball school. We have a lot of banners hanging in our arena. We play in a weak conference. We have the highest recruiting budget in the whole conference. Floyd has been here 5 years and has zero postseason wins, zero NCAA Tournament appearances, zero CUSA regular season titles, zero CUSA Tournament final appearances(with his players). In his 5th season we got blasted by Murray State in the first round of the NIT. He has a losing record against NMSU(he swept them in his first year with Barbee's team). He does nothing every year. The 3 previous coaches before Floyd took us to the NCAA Tourney within 4 years. But people have 1,000 excuses for Floyd for him doing nothing in 5 years and being given the most resources to work with than any other previous UTEP coach.

 

[unihorn]

 

[Minerforlife]

I would say since 2000 football has been more successful than basketball. I think part of problem is that our basketball tradition and pedigree is greatly overstated. If you look at UTEP hoops history after the 60's we have only went the tournament twice a decade with exception being the eighties when we made six tournament appearances. The only year since 66 we made real noise was in 92. Since 66 we are an above average program but not a top 100 program. We dont do ourselves any favors by inflating our history. People point to eighties, but Houston was way better than us in eighties. You ever met a Cougars fan or alumn who claimed they were a basketball school because of the eighties. Having said that we have everything in place fan support, facilities to be a good basketball program. I think the first step is to realize what we currently are not what we fantasize we are.

Im glad people are upset when we lose football games. We have to raise expectations for the entire athletic department. UTEP's athletic future rides soley on the success of the football program. Basketball is nice but it has no impact at all on future conference expansion.

 

[JeepJackson22]

We are still a basketball school, period. Doesn't mean that we are still recently successful in basketball or a power in basketball, just that it is the sport that we've had most success, tradition, support in and are most known for nationally.

 

[STexMiner]

I would say since 2000 football has been more successful than basketball. I think part of problem is that our basketball tradition and pedigree is greatly overstated. If you look at UTEP hoops history after the 60's we have only went the tournament twice a decade with exception being the eighties when we made six tournament appearances. The only year since 66 we made real noise was in 92. Since 66 we are an above average program but not a top 100 program. We dont do ourselves any favors by inflating our history. People point to eighties, but Houston was way better than us in eighties. You ever met a Cougars fan or alumn who claimed they were a basketball school because of the eighties. Having said that we have everything in place fan support, facilities to be a good basketball program. I think the first step is to realize what we currently are not what we fantasize we are.

Im glad people are upset when we lose football games. We have to raise expectations for the entire athletic department. UTEP's athletic future rides soley on the success of the football program. Basketball is nice but it has no impact at all on future conference expansion.

I think it's pretty hard to argue football has been more successful than basketball. The numbers sure don't back that up.

Football since 2000:
71-113 (0.385) overall
46-74 (0.383) conference
5 bowls (2000 Humanitarian, 2004 Houston, 2005 GMAC, 2010 New Mexico, 2015 New Mexico): 0-5
0-23 vs. power conference teams
One conference title (2000)

Basketball since 2000:
296-196 (0.601) overall
146-102 (0.588) conference
10 postseasons (NCAA 2004, 2005, 2010; NIT 2001, 2006, 2011, 2015, CBI 2008, 2009, 2014): 6-11
18-32 vs. power conference teams
Two conference titles (2001, 2010), one conference tourney title (2005)

Yeah, give me crap for including the CBI. My rationale is including the CBI and CIT, that means you have about 40% of D1 teams in the postseason. You have about half of football teams going to bowl games. The GMAC and New Mexico Bowls are college football's answer to the CBI.

Football's best winning percentage is 0.667 three times (2000, 2004, 2005). Basketball has done better than that 7 times and tied it once. You might say that it's easier to schedule cupcakes in hoops, which it is. But, basketball's winning percentage in conference is still substantially higher than football (conference ought to be our sports peers).

You can argue that basketball has been more disappointing, and I don't think a lot of people disagree with you. But, that's because we do have a winning tradition in basketball and expectations are higher.

Either way, neither program is anywhere near where it needs to be.

 

[mine n for gold]

For the most part in basketball we are always competitive and in football it's been pretty embarrassing

 

[Minerforlife]

I think it's pretty hard to argue football has been more successful than basketball. The numbers sure don't back that up.

Football since 2000:
71-113 (0.385) overall
46-74 (0.383) conference
5 bowls (2000 Humanitarian, 2004 Houston, 2005 GMAC, 2010 New Mexico, 2015 New Mexico): 0-5
0-23 vs. power conference teams
One conference title (2000)

Basketball since 2000:
296-196 (0.601) overall
146-102 (0.588) conference
10 postseasons (NCAA 2004, 2005, 2010; NIT 2001, 2006, 2011, 2015, CBI 2008, 2009, 2014): 6-11
18-32 vs. power conference teams
Two conference titles (2000, 2010), one conference tourney title (2005)

Yeah, give me crap for including the CBI. My rationale is including the CBI and CIT, that means you have about 40% of D1 teams in the postseason. You have about half of football teams going to bowl games. The GMAC and New Mexico Bowls are college football's answer to the CBI.

Football's best winning percentage is 0.667 three times (2000, 2004, 2005). Basketball has done better than that 7 times and tied it once. You might say that it's easier to schedule cupcakes in hoops, which it is. But, basketball's winning percentage in conference is still substantially higher in conference than football (which ought to be our peers).

You can argue that basketball has been more disappointing, and I don't think a lot of people disagree with you. But, that's because we do have a winning tradition in basketball and expectations are higher.

Either way, neither program is anywhere near where it needs to be.

I was just counting bowl games and ncaa tournaments. Rationale is that there are 327 division 1 basketball schools. Most of those are very small schools in terrible facilities that have no chance. Even in our own conference only half schools really even try to be competitive in hoops. On the other hand all 127 fbs schools main focus is football. Every school is trying to be competitive in football because thats where 80 percent of the money is. I think its much harder to win in football.

 

[MineroFanatico]

I think it's pretty hard to argue football has been more successful than basketball. The numbers sure don't back that up.

Football since 2000:
71-113 (0.385) overall
46-74 (0.383) conference
5 bowls (2000 Humanitarian, 2004 Houston, 2005 GMAC, 2010 New Mexico, 2015 New Mexico): 0-5
0-23 vs. power conference teams
One conference title (2000)

Basketball since 2000:
296-196 (0.601) overall
146-102 (0.588) conference
10 postseasons (NCAA 2004, 2005, 2010; NIT 2001, 2006, 2011, 2015, CBI 2008, 2009, 2014): 6-11
18-32 vs. power conference teams
Two conference titles (2000, 2010), one conference tourney title (2005)

Yeah, give me crap for including the CBI. My rationale is including the CBI and CIT, that means you have about 40% of D1 teams in the postseason. You have about half of football teams going to bowl games. The GMAC and New Mexico Bowls are college football's answer to the CBI.

Football's best winning percentage is 0.667 three times (2000, 2004, 2005). Basketball has done better than that 7 times and tied it once. You might say that it's easier to schedule cupcakes in hoops, which it is. But, basketball's winning percentage in conference is still substantially higher than football (conference ought to be our sports peers).

You can argue that basketball has been more disappointing, and I don't think a lot of people disagree with you. But, that's because we do have a winning tradition in basketball and expectations are higher.

Either way, neither program is anywhere near where it needs to be.

Dude...good post!

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

I would say since 2000 football has been more successful than basketball. I think part of problem is that our basketball tradition and pedigree is greatly overstated. If you look at UTEP hoops history after the 60's we have only went the tournament twice a decade with exception being the eighties when we made six tournament appearances. The only year since 66 we made real noise was in 92. Since 66 we are an above average program but not a top 100 program. We dont do ourselves any favors by inflating our history. People point to eighties, but Houston was way better than us in eighties. You ever met a Cougars fan or alumn who claimed they were a basketball school because of the eighties. Having said that we have everything in place fan support, facilities to be a good basketball program. I think the first step is to realize what we currently are not what we fantasize we are.

Im glad people are upset when we lose football games. We have to raise expectations for the entire athletic department. UTEP's athletic future rides soley on the success of the football program. Basketball is nice but it has no impact at all on future conference expansion.

Couldn't agree more. I always laugh when I hear people say UTEP is a basketball school. Like you said, UTEP basketball hasn't been relevant since 1992.

 

[MineroFanatico]

Couldn't agree more. I always laugh when I hear people say UTEP is a basketball school. Like you said, UTEP basketball hasn't been relevant since 1992.

But football has been relevant, huh? UTEP is definitely a FB school, no doubt. Maybe we are a track and field school...

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

But football has been relevant, huh? UTEP is definitely a FB school, no doubt. Maybe we are a track and field school...

I didn't say that. I guess you can say UTEP was relevant when Mike Price came here when he got UTEP in the Top 25.

 

[STexMiner]

I was just counting bowl games and ncaa tournaments. Rationale is that there are 327 division 1 basketball schools. Most of those are very small schools in terrible facilities that have no chance. Even in our own conference only half schools really even try to be competitive in hoops. On the other hand all 127 fbs schools main focus is football. Every school is trying to be competitive in football because thats where 80 percent of the money is. I think its much harder to win in football.

I guess I can see that logic. I don't really agree with it. It may be harder to win at football, but the bowl system is honestly a joke. There are going to be 82 bowl eligible teams this year (I said in my post, it's about half....actually it's now 64%). I'm not even sure how the math will work out with that if half the teams pretty have to lose every week. It's pretty hard to say that going 6-6 and making the New Mexico Bowl is equivalent to going to the NCAA Tournament. If you're not in the big 6 conferences, you have to do something pretty special to get an at-large these days.

 

[FiliUTEP]

I hate to say this but i miss Mike Price. His style of football was fun to watch.

I liked how he took chances. He would go for it on 4th down and he would do fake punts. Man those were the good ole days.lol

 

[LaserCoog]

I hate to say this but i miss Mike Price. His style of football was fun to watch.

I liked how he took chances. He would go for it on 4th down and he would do fake punts. Man those were the good ole days.lol

Nah, it's a lot more fun to continuously get your teeth kicked in by any team with a record north of .500...

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

But football has been relevant, huh? UTEP is definitely a FB school, no doubt. Maybe we are a track and field school...

You're both wrong. Obviously we are a track and field school.

 

[miner661]

I think we're a rifle team school.

 

[utep2step]

1) Obviously your missed the accomplishments of Mike Price. Two bowls his first year and a mediocre New Mexico towards the end. Despite Bloomquist and Kugler claims, Mike Price did have accomplishments here. He raised attendance, brought in Texas, Tech (initially),

x100

 

[MinerManiac]

After reading the different boards, there are a lot of people furious with Kugler. He deserves some criticism because of how the team has played these past 2 weeks. As a fan, you always expect improvement from year to year. Our first 2 games have been against teams that everyone knew would be 2 loses. But like I said, a lot of people are pissed off. UTEP football has been one the worst programs for decades. Kugler has been here for 3 years and has one winning season already. He is undefeated against NMSU. He has done pretty well according to UTEP football standards. People are putting the blame on Kugler with no excuses.

UTEP is a basketball school. We have a lot of banners hanging in our arena. We play in a weak conference. We have the highest recruiting budget in the whole conference. Floyd has been here 5 years and has zero postseason wins, zero NCAA Tournament appearances, zero CUSA regular season titles, zero CUSA Tournament final appearances(with his players). In his 5th season we got blasted by Murray State in the first round of the NIT. He has a losing record against NMSU(he swept them in his first year with Barbee's team). He does nothing every year. The 3 previous coaches before Floyd took us to the NCAA Tourney within 4 years. But people have 1,000 excuses for Floyd for him doing nothing in 5 years and being given the most resources to work with than any other previous UTEP coach.

To say that expectations for Kugler are higher than those for Floyd is ridiculous. Most here were happy and satisfied with the progress Kugler made by taking the Miners to a winning record and a New Mexico Bowl appearance last season. This would, at best, be the basketball equivalent of taking a team to the CIT and proceeding to lose.

When we look at Floyd's record, with four winning seasons in five years, four post season invitations, and a couple of seasons where we challenged for a conference title, we would absolutely take that in football. Floyd is under fire from some because he hasn't made an NCAA Tournament. Kugler is currently under fire from some because they fear that the team's early poor performances may lead to a losing season. This is a huge difference.

I would say since 2000 football has been more successful than basketball. I think part of problem is that our basketball tradition and pedigree is greatly overstated. If you look at UTEP hoops history after the 60's we have only went the tournament twice a decade with exception being the eighties when we made six tournament appearances. The only year since 66 we made real noise was in 92. Since 66 we are an above average program but not a top 100 program. We dont do ourselves any favors by inflating our history. People point to eighties, but Houston was way better than us in eighties. You ever met a Cougars fan or alumn who claimed they were a basketball school because of the eighties. Having said that we have everything in place fan support, facilities to be a good basketball program. I think the first step is to realize what we currently are not what we fantasize we are.

Im glad people are upset when we lose football games. We have to raise expectations for the entire athletic department. UTEP's athletic future rides soley on the success of the football program. Basketball is nice but it has no impact at all on future conference expansion.

To say that football has been more successful here than basketball since 2000 is also ridiculous. STex's numbers bear out the fact that even in what have been fairly lean years for our basketball program, it still far outshines the football team's meager accomplishments.