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Who's untouchable?

STexMiner

MI Hall of Famer
Feb 15, 2004
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Assuming (and hoping) we have a new staff next year, who do we have that you would like the hypothetical staff to work to keep around?

Dominic Artis
Lee Moore
Matt Willms
Omega Harris
Jake Flaggert
Brodricks Jones
Paul Thomas
Terry Winn
Trey Touchet
Tedric Johnson (who?)
Josh McSwiggan
Ivan Venegas
Christian Romine
Chris White (who?)
Kelvin Jones

My initial thoughts were Harris, Winn, Thomas, and the Joneses. I'm not so sure about that any more. Unless they go the Kareem Cooper route or graduate, I think we're stuck with Artis and Moore. Just hope the old adage that you get one below average year to get a good year from JC transfers holds true.
 
Lets assume there are no changes.

2016-2017 Scholarship Players (13)

Freshman

PG Deon Barrett
SG Tim Cameron

Sophomores

PG Trey Touchet
SF Josh McSwiggan
PF Paul Thomas
PF Brodricks Jones
PF Terry Winn
C Christian Romine

Juniors

SG/PG Omega Harris
SF Jake Flaggert

Seniors

PG Dominic Artis
SG Lee Moore
C Matt Willms

My Question: Is this a NCAA Tournament Roster?

I remember being so pumped knowing we had guys like Randy Culpepper, Arnette Moultrie, Jason Williams, Omar Thomas, Fili Rivera....coming back next season. I look at this roster, and I just don't know. The 2 Freshman have never played a D1 game. The Sophomore class has Winn, but everyone else is a mystery as to whether or not they will contribute. The Junior Class has Omega, but will he be a favorite of Floyd or be in his doghouse. Flaggert has shown nothing. Artis, shows flashes. Lee Moore, a player who can score, but will he be here? Will he be consistent? Willms, can he get through a season healthy?
 
Part of the problem is misidentifying talent. Jake Flaggert, for instance, I'm sure is a really good kid, but he should be coming off the bench for UT Pan American, not starting occasionally for UTEP.

Part of the problem is Floyd not knowing how to connect with his players on a personal level. The days when you could be Don Haskins and breathe hellfire down their throats are long gone. Being a complete a-hole to the players is no longer an effective strategy for coaching college basketball. The best coaches these days are the ones who connect with the players so that the players are willing to run through a brick wall for them. Instead, Floyd has players who don't care what he says, who freelance at the end of games like UTSA, and who repeatedly make stupid mental errors.

Part of the problem is character. Three years ago, When the gambling scandal broke, Floyd sat in Richard Adauto's office and said on camera, "I promise I will never bring a player here who has ever harmed a woman." Then he brought in a rapist to play point guard. When your coach is willing to lie to your face like that and bring in the kinds of shady people he brings in, it's no longer worth it. Selling your soul to make the NCAA tournament is one thing, but selling it for a sh***y point guard who helps you lose to UTSA is another thing entirely.

Part of the problem is recruiting. Floyd simply is not able to recruit at a high level anymore. Ask him about this and he blames it on El Paso's remoteness, CUSA's reputation, etc., but the fact of the matter is his predecessor, in fewer years, recruited three NBA players to El Paso while Floyd has recruited zero.

I still think Tim Floyd is an excellent game coach. However, when you lose touch with the new generation so completely that all the good recruits go elsewhere, and the players you do have won't play hard for you because you're such an a-hole to them, then it doesn't really matter how brilliant your gameplans are.
 
In a random thought; I was looking back at Floyd's Signing Class from just 2 years ago. This was the Signing Class that got so much attention and was even ranked as high as the 16th best Signing Class in the entire Nation. Here were the 6 players that signed with us during that Signing Class:

- Isaac Hamilton(4 Star)
- Vince Hunter(4 Star)
- Andre Spight(3 Star)
- Jacob Thomas(JC)
- Josh Brown.
- Jake Flaggert.

- Out of the 6 players, only 2 ever played a single minute of basketball at UTEP.
- Out of the 6 players, only 1 player(Sophomore Jake Flaggert) is still at UTEP this season.

It's hard on a Program when you miss out on an entire class, missing out on an entire class is almost like suffering a self-emposed sanction. That class would have been upper classmen starting this season and as upperclassmen, they should be leading our Program at this time. Instead, all that you have is Jake Flaggert.
 
Part of the problem is misidentifying talent. Jake Flaggert, for instance, I'm sure is a really good kid, but he should be coming off the bench for UT Pan American, not starting occasionally for UTEP.

Part of the problem is Floyd not knowing how to connect with his players on a personal level. The days when you could be Don Haskins and breathe hellfire down their throats are long gone. Being a complete a-hole to the players is no longer an effective strategy for coaching college basketball. The best coaches these days are the ones who connect with the players so that the players are willing to run through a brick wall for them. Instead, Floyd has players who don't care what he says, who freelance at the end of games like UTSA, and who repeatedly make stupid mental errors.

Part of the problem is character. Three years ago, When the gambling scandal broke, Floyd sat in Richard Adauto's office and said on camera, "I promise I will never bring a player here who has ever harmed a woman." Then he brought in a rapist to play point guard. When your coach is willing to lie to your face like that and bring in the kinds of shady people he brings in, it's no longer worth it. Selling your soul to make the NCAA tournament is one thing, but selling it for a sh***y point guard who helps you lose to UTSA is another thing entirely.

Part of the problem is recruiting. Floyd simply is not able to recruit at a high level anymore. Ask him about this and he blames it on El Paso's remoteness, CUSA's reputation, etc., but the fact of the matter is his predecessor, in fewer years, recruited three NBA players to El Paso while Floyd has recruited zero.

I still think Tim Floyd is an excellent game coach. However, when you lose touch with the new generation so completely that all the good recruits go elsewhere, and the players you do have won't play hard for you because you're such an a-hole to them, then it doesn't really matter how brilliant your gameplans are.
Part of the problem is misidentifying talent. Jake Flaggert, for instance, I'm sure is a really good kid, but he should be coming off the bench for UT Pan American, not starting occasionally for UTEP.

Part of the problem is Floyd not knowing how to connect with his players on a personal level. The days when you could be Don Haskins and breathe hellfire down their throats are long gone. Being a complete a-hole to the players is no longer an effective strategy for coaching college basketball. The best coaches these days are the ones who connect with the players so that the players are willing to run through a brick wall for them. Instead, Floyd has players who don't care what he says, who freelance at the end of games like UTSA, and who repeatedly make stupid mental errors.

Part of the problem is character. Three years ago, When the gambling scandal broke, Floyd sat in Richard Adauto's office and said on camera, "I promise I will never bring a player here who has ever harmed a woman." Then he brought in a rapist to play point guard. When your coach is willing to lie to your face like that and bring in the kinds of shady people he brings in, it's no longer worth it. Selling your soul to make the NCAA tournament is one thing, but selling it for a sh***y point guard who helps you lose to UTSA is another thing entirely.

Part of the problem is recruiting. Floyd simply is not able to recruit at a high level anymore. Ask him about this and he blames it on El Paso's remoteness, CUSA's reputation, etc., but the fact of the matter is his predecessor, in fewer years, recruited three NBA players to El Paso while Floyd has recruited zero.

I still think Tim Floyd is an excellent game coach. However, when you lose touch with the new generation so completely that all the good recruits go elsewhere, and the players you do have won't play hard for you because you're such an a-hole to them, then it doesn't really matter how brilliant your gameplans are.

Very well said. The only thing I would question, and I'm not sticking up for him, but it might not be accurate to call Artis a rapist. There is too much ambiguity in the circumstances to sit in certainty either way, imo. Still, I get the jist of what you are saying and agree.
 
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In a random thought; I was looking back at Floyd's Signing Class from just 2 years ago. This was the Signing Class that got so much attention and was even ranked as high as the 16th best Signing Class in the entire Nation. Here were the 6 players that signed with us during that Signing Class:

- Isaac Hamilton(4 Star)
- Vince Hunter(4 Star)
- Andre Spight(3 Star)
- Jacob Thomas(JC)
- Josh Brown.
- Jake Flaggert.

- Out of the 6 players, only 2 ever played a single minute of basketball at UTEP.
- Out of the 6 players, only 1 player(Sophomore Jake Flaggert) is still at UTEP this season.

It's hard on a Program when you miss out on an entire class, missing out on an entire class is almost like suffering a self-emposed sanction. That class would have been upper classmen starting this season and as upperclassmen, they should be leading our Program at this time. Instead, all that you have is Jake Flaggert.
Been saying this for the last few years, i compiled(and posted) how many players CTF recruited signed and or commited with UTEP like 29 total and 21 never suited up for UTEP , I don't remember exactly but some ridiculous number.
 
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You make some great points Juden...and you can attribute most of them to the coaching staff as a whole. The team is clearly undisciplined, which can be attributed to the combination of poor coaching, as well as players that simply don't appear to be coachable. It is a two way street; this isn't junior high basketball.

What was particularly alarming about the play at UTSA, was that the collapse occurred after ONE week of prep time for the game. Instead of seeing at least a modest improvement, we saw the the complete breakdown we saw yesterday. There are many issues right now with the team, and they have been identified by many a poster on the board. Some of the main culprits being: Poor perimeter defense, poor defensive rebounding, stagnant offense, and poor free-throw shooting; just to name a few. When this is all added up, the end result is just a bad basketball team.

So what is next? My guess is that Floyd will get one more year. For next year, we have two guards signed; as well as Prop-48 big man, Kelvin Jones. To me, to have any kind of chance to turn this around, for starters, we need major help inside. From what I have seen, neither P. Thomas or B. Jones are the answer (major projects at best). Both K. Jones and M. Willms are major question marks. If I was the coaching staff, my next move would be to try to get some experienced (JC) help inside; which as we all know, is easier said than done.
 
We only have one player in our Program right now who has played more than 2 seasons at UTEP. This is probably a big reason why we don't seem to have any leadership when we play. You can't keep having a revolving door of players and expect to have a good Program with good chemistry(unless you are Kentucky and your revolving door is 5 Star athletes replacing 5 Star athletes).
 
Very well said. The only thing I would question, and I'm not sticking up for him, but it might not be accurate to call Artis a rapist. There is too much ambiguity in the circumstances to sit in certainty either way, imo. Still, I get the jist of what you are saying and agree.
And it's not like Hunter amounted to nothing.
 
It's hard on a Program when you miss out on an entire class, missing out on an entire class is almost like suffering a self-emposed sanction. That class would have been upper classmen starting this season and as upperclassmen, they should be leading our Program at this time. Instead, all that you have is Jake Flaggert.

And the year prior to that was

Dustin Watts
Twymond Howard
Chris Washburn

So I guess that's the 'self-emposed' death penalty.
 
You make some great points Juden...and you can attribute most of them to the coaching staff as a whole. The team is clearly undisciplined, which can be attributed to the combination of poor coaching, as well as players that simply don't appear to be coachable. It is a two way street; this isn't junior high basketball.

What was particularly alarming about the play at UTSA, was that the collapse occurred after ONE week of prep time for the game. Instead of seeing at least a modest improvement, we saw the the complete breakdown we saw yesterday. There are many issues right now with the team, and they have been identified by many a poster on the board. Some of the main culprits being: Poor perimeter defense, poor defensive rebounding, stagnant offense, and poor free-throw shooting; just to name a few. When this is all added up, the end result is just a bad basketball team.

So what is next? My guess is that Floyd will get one more year. For next year, we have two guards signed; as well as Prop-48 big man, Kelvin Jones. To me, to have any kind of chance to turn this around, for starters, we need major help inside. From what I have seen, neither P. Thomas or B. Jones are the answer (major projects at best). Both K. Jones and M. Willms are major question marks. If I was the coaching staff, my next move would be to try to get some experienced (JC) help inside; which as we all know, is easier said than done.

I hope Floyd doesn't get a 7th year.
 
So if one is able to tell, from the comfort of the stands and behind his television, that Floyd is being an "A-hole" to his team, then in what way is he not "connecting" and what evidence is there that he is being an A-hole? How has he "lost touch"? Those are easy cliche words to toss around. Instead of using a hip word, I would like to know specifically how today's coaches "connect" to today's players? Izzo, Huggins, Martin, Pearl, heck even K are known to be hard asses and disciplinarians. What exactly are the dynamics of "connecting" with today's players? Honest question.

In my opinion, besides the obvious lack of rebounding, I think the two biggest deficits in this team is leadership and chemistry. We haven't had an identifiable true leader since Bo's senior season. None of last year's seniors ever took the role of leader. It looked to me as if Omega was going to take that role when he returned to the team, but sadly hasn't. Vint nor Morris seem to want the job. I think Touchet has the biggest potential of taking on a leadership role. The lack of chemistry, to me, is both sort of understandable, and yet dumbfounding. It's been duly noted that along with the red-shirts, and given the new comers, this was an inexperienced, or young team. The lack of chemistry at the beginning of the season was expected, but should have been worked out by conference time. I think two things are at play here. One, I think Floyd spent too much time tinkering, or experimenting with different line ups and combinations. Especially in the back court and in the wings. Given the lack of depth and injury in the front court, he didn't have much of a choice there. If anything, I feel he didn't give enough playing time to Romain and Thomas. Maybe he should have been playing the heck out of them before conference. He would say during his post game conferences early on that they were trying to learn who could do what, and what worked well. I don't think we learned a thing. Up to this point, I feel like Moore and Artis have had a bit of a prima donna attitude, and that has effected their play at both ends of the floor. I wouldn't be surprised to see Artis' minutes dwindle, and wish Touchet had had more PT during pre-conference. Somehow, I get the feeling the team has yet to get comfortable when Artis and Moore are on the floor. This team has not learned, or refuses to learn the value of every offensive possession. Particularly at crunch time and that is maddening.

I find it curious that several here who complain about the lack of defense (and yes, obviously our defense lacks immensely this year) also call out Flaggart as being pretty much useless. Flaggart for the lack of minutes he's getting, leads the team easily in taking charges, something that Artis, Moore and Morris should be excelling at. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Two, Floyd is paying big time for not recruiting, or not being able to land an impact front court player. Losing Bo, Lang and Hunter (should have suspected he would jump) in successive years, this was not going to be a surprise. The lack of foresight here is inexcusable, duly noted here by pretty much everyone. Really need a home run here next year, by Floyd or whomever.

JudenSmithFan's third paragraph is downright shameful. Floyd did state, he or his coaches would never go after a player "who had ever laid his hands on a woman" to quote his exact words. I understand the frustration of Artis not living up to the hype, but to single him out as a rapist, and just who are these other shady people you speak of? That is taking a very low road to make a point. He was not charged, he was vetted, up to now, as far as anyone knows, has been a good student and citizen. I'm sure no one is happy with his play, but there's no need to attack his character to attack Floyd. Carlos used to say, "would you let Artis date your daughter?" Which I thought was stupid. But I'll go one better on him, not happy that Artis is here? Man up and go up to his face and tell him, you're a rapist and I'm not happy that Floyd recruited you to UTEP. Better yet, tell it to Floyd. He's available every Wednesday. That was cheap and pointless shot. I also feel you would not have used it had Artis' play been up to par and we had a much better record. Pathetic and cowardly example, IMO.

Tell you a little story. Back in the '09-'10 season I worked with the company that drove the BB team to the airport and back when they came home. I drove them about 5-6 times. The first time, I was dismayed at the way the N word was thrown around by several of the players. I won't single them out, but I was surprised at who some of them were. I didn't say anything the first time, but the second time I did speak up.
I flat out told them before we left I did not appreciate the use of the word, even if it was among themselves, and was disappointed in the use, given the history of UTEP. To their credit, they politely apologized and discontinued using it, at least in my presence. Peel an onion, there's lots of layers. The only other person I've shared that story with is my wife.

I haven't given an opinion on Floyd because I'm still on the fence. I've been digesting the opinions of everybody and I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on here. I do think a team's play is the reflection of it's coaching, to a large degree. However, there are some tangibles that are beyond a coaches control. It wouldn't surprise me if he resigned at season's end. I just don't know what good it would do to fire him at this point. I'll continue to support them when I can.
 
So if one is able to tell, from the comfort of the stands and behind his television, that Floyd is being an "A-hole" to his team, then in what way is he not "connecting" and what evidence is there that he is being an A-hole? How has he "lost touch"? Those are easy cliche words to toss around. Instead of using a hip word, I would like to know specifically how today's coaches "connect" to today's players? Izzo, Huggins, Martin, Pearl, heck even K are known to be hard asses and disciplinarians. What exactly are the dynamics of "connecting" with today's players? Honest question.

In my opinion, besides the obvious lack of rebounding, I think the two biggest deficits in this team is leadership and chemistry. We haven't had an identifiable true leader since Bo's senior season. None of last year's seniors ever took the role of leader. It looked to me as if Omega was going to take that role when he returned to the team, but sadly hasn't. Vint nor Morris seem to want the job. I think Touchet has the biggest potential of taking on a leadership role. The lack of chemistry, to me, is both sort of understandable, and yet dumbfounding. It's been duly noted that along with the red-shirts, and given the new comers, this was an inexperienced, or young team. The lack of chemistry at the beginning of the season was expected, but should have been worked out by conference time. I think two things are at play here. One, I think Floyd spent too much time tinkering, or experimenting with different line ups and combinations. Especially in the back court and in the wings. Given the lack of depth and injury in the front court, he didn't have much of a choice there. If anything, I feel he didn't give enough playing time to Romain and Thomas. Maybe he should have been playing the heck out of them before conference. He would say during his post game conferences early on that they were trying to learn who could do what, and what worked well. I don't think we learned a thing. Up to this point, I feel like Moore and Artis have had a bit of a prima donna attitude, and that has effected their play at both ends of the floor. I wouldn't be surprised to see Artis' minutes dwindle, and wish Touchet had had more PT during pre-conference. Somehow, I get the feeling the team has yet to get comfortable when Artis and Moore are on the floor. This team has not learned, or refuses to learn the value of every offensive possession. Particularly at crunch time and that is maddening.

I find it curious that several here who complain about the lack of defense (and yes, obviously our defense lacks immensely this year) also call out Flaggart as being pretty much useless. Flaggart for the lack of minutes he's getting, leads the team easily in taking charges, something that Artis, Moore and Morris should be excelling at. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Two, Floyd is paying big time for not recruiting, or not being able to land an impact front court player. Losing Bo, Lang and Hunter (should have suspected he would jump) in successive years, this was not going to be a surprise. The lack of foresight here is inexcusable, duly noted here by pretty much everyone. Really need a home run here next year, by Floyd or whomever.

JudenSmithFan's third paragraph is downright shameful. Floyd did state, he or his coaches would never go after a player "who had ever laid his hands on a woman" to quote his exact words. I understand the frustration of Artis not living up to the hype, but to single him out as a rapist, and just who are these other shady people you speak of? That is taking a very low road to make a point. He was not charged, he was vetted, up to now, as far as anyone knows, has been a good student and citizen. I'm sure no one is happy with his play, but there's no need to attack his character to attack Floyd. Carlos used to say, "would you let Artis date your daughter?" Which I thought was stupid. But I'll go one better on him, not happy that Artis is here? Man up and go up to his face and tell him, you're a rapist and I'm not happy that Floyd recruited you to UTEP. Better yet, tell it to Floyd. He's available every Wednesday. That was cheap and pointless shot. I also feel you would not have used it had Artis' play been up to par and we had a much better record. Pathetic and cowardly example, IMO.

Tell you a little story. Back in the '09-'10 season I worked with the company that drove the BB team to the airport and back when they came home. I drove them about 5-6 times. The first time, I was dismayed at the way the N word was thrown around by several of the players. I won't single them out, but I was surprised at who some of them were. I didn't say anything the first time, but the second time I did speak up.
I flat out told them before we left I did not appreciate the use of the word, even if it was among themselves, and was disappointed in the use, given the history of UTEP. To their credit, they politely apologized and discontinued using it, at least in my presence. Peel an onion, there's lots of layers. The only other person I've shared that story with is my wife.

I haven't given an opinion on Floyd because I'm still on the fence. I've been digesting the opinions of everybody and I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on here. I do think a team's play is the reflection of it's coaching, to a large degree. However, there are some tangibles that are beyond a coaches control. It wouldn't surprise me if he resigned at season's end. I just don't know what good it would do to fire him at this point. I'll continue to support them when I can.

Well said....even the little bit of it I didn't necessarily agree with I can at least appreciate.
 
Floyd's biggest problem is that he alienated all the AAU coaches. We all underestimated how much the USC debacle damaged Floyd. To cover his own ass he threw AAU coaches under the bus at USC. The top AAU coaches will have nothing to do with Floyd. Thats a huge problem. AAU coaches are way more important in recruiting than high school coaches are. Its almost impossible to recruit when you are persona non grata with the AAU coaches. That has caused Floyd to take risks in recruiting and get discipline problems and under achievers. This reminds me of when Sadler left a bare cover for Barbee. I dont see alot of building blocks on the roster this is not going to be a quick fix.
 
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So if one is able to tell, from the comfort of the stands and behind his television ...I would like to know specifically how today's coaches "connect" to today's players? Izzo, Huggins, Martin, Pearl, heck even K are known to be hard asses and disciplinarians. What exactly are the dynamics of "connecting" with today's players? Honest question.

First of all, I attend every home game, some road games, every Tim Floyd Show, and the occasional practice. So I'm not doing this from "the comfort" of anywhere. I've seen it with my own eyes.

If you have heard Coach Floyd talk a fair amount, then you know that not only does he barely know how to use a computer, he's fairly proud of being computer illiterate. Connecting with today's players involves being on Twitter and Facebook, and being aware of the power of (heck, even the existence of) YouTube. It's a well-known fact in college basketball these days that Twitter is a must; any coach who isn't on Twitter is recruiting with one hand tied behind his back. Even the dinosaurs you mention above, like Coach K, recognize this and have embraced that world. Coach Floyd on the other hand seems quite proud of being ignorant about texting and social media. If you've ever heard any of his coach's shows then you already know this. A couple of Floyd's assistants are involved in social media to some degree, but a tweet from Ken DeWeese is just not the same thing as a tweet from Tim Floyd. (No offense, Coach DeWeese.)

But more than social media, it's just connecting with players on a human level that Floyd appears deficient in. Shaka Smart, for instance, is know for texting his players on a daily basis, asking them about their classes, discussing their off-the-court interests with them, just getting to know them as human beings. Coach Floyd would probably pop a vein if he ever had to do any of that stuff. The theory is, if the players know a coach cares about them as human beings, they'll be willing to run through a wall to please him. Coach Floyd's use for his players extends only as far as their performance on the court, as evidenced by the many players he has dumped and cast away when they didn't meet his needs, and by the lack of 100% effort his UTEP teams have shown. There's a reason that NCAA rule passed a few years ago is called the "Tim Floyd Rule."

I do think Coach Floyd has his good qualities as a coach. But the items above are areas in which he is hugely deficient.
 
LOL
I find some of these things laughable, Juden. Seriously? connecting with the players means you have to text them. have a twitter account, and know how to use a computer? Puh lease!

Let me begin with this easy statement.....I believe Floyd needs to go...like yesterday. BUT......

To sit anywhere and blame it ALL on FLoyd is stupid. The recruiting class defense spoke of was a great class. How much was REALLY Timmy's fault? Hamilton is a flake, Speight couldnt pass a test involving 1+1, Hunter bolted (rumors about grades too), etc...The class before had Howard (who looked like he couldn't get out of his own way), Chris washburn (who looked as goofy as Vint), and whatever his name was. Fact is not ALL this is Floyd's fault for players bolting.

I do have season tickets and go to the games. I watch them on TV when I can. I HAVE seen Floyd put his arm around players, I have read his lips telling them good job, wtg, and more words of encouragement. I do believe however, there are several players that just have attitudes and think their shit doesn't stink. Artis is one. Some kids think they are above rules. I have no problem benching or cutting them.

I "think" the problem is the message the kids get. I don't think they have figured out that once they learn to work and play together, not be so damn selfish, we will win. Make the past pass, take the foul, take responsibility. While they all want to get paid playing hoops, none will by playing this way...

I gotta go get the bar open....hasta la pasta..
 
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LOL
I find some of these things laughable, Juden. Seriously? connecting with the players means you have to text them. have a twitter account, and know how to use a computer? Puh lease!

Let me begin with this easy statement.....I believe Floyd needs to go...like yesterday. BUT......

To sit anywhere and blame it ALL on FLoyd is stupid. The recruiting class defense spoke of was a great class. How much was REALLY Timmy's fault? Hamilton is a flake, Speight couldnt pass a test involving 1+1, Hunter bolted (rumors about grades too), etc...The class before had Howard (who looked like he couldn't get out of his own way), Chris washburn (who looked as goofy as Vint), and whatever his name was. Fact is not ALL this is Floyd's fault for players bolting.

I do have season tickets and go to the games. I watch them on TV when I can. I HAVE seen Floyd put his arm around players, I have read his lips telling them good job, wtg, and more words of encouragement. I do believe however, there are several players that just have attitudes and think their shit doesn't stink. Artis is one. Some kids think they are above rules. I have no problem benching or cutting them.

I "think" the problem is the message the kids get. I don't think they have figured out that once they learn to work and play together, not be so damn selfish, we will win. Make the past pass, take the foul, take responsibility. While they all want to get paid playing hoops, none will by playing this way...

I gotta go get the bar open....hasta la pasta..
Way to go Ron!
 
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There's a lot of interesting ideas posted on this topic. I agree with some, disagree with some and just don't know about some. It's a shame what's happened this year. There's a long list disappointments. Some of the players attitudes have been questioned and some of their performances are far short of what was expected based on overvalued abilities. Thomas, Romine and Jones all had impressive credentials. None of them have shown anything. Don't use the freshman excuse. We've seen loads of impressive freshman talent over the years. These guys have not shown any signs of hope for the future.
 
Artist and Lee Moore are going to be good players if they stay, that's obvious. They are having some growing pains though and the team chemistry has been bad all year. The rebounding especially offensive rebounding is killing this team. Floyd put all his hope in a 7'1 100 pound kid who has shown no dominance in the paint and is injury prone. Now that he's not available Floyd has no answer, cause he didn't recruit a replacement for Hunter or Langley that could help rebound. Floyd is prideful and out of touch with the realities of today's college basketball game. They may possibly be better next year with kids like Winn and Touchet the showing promise, but I'd love to see him walk away, before this hole he's dug gets even deeper. We are gonna have a 6 year drought from the NCAA or winning a post season game. If this is what our proud program has come to then shame on Stull and DR. Nat for allowing it. A once proud program is not even good enough to be near the top of a terrible conference. I'm to the point of petitioning all miner fans who care to write a letter to Stull that we won't stand for where this program is right now. The last time we were in such a drought was after Haskins was penalized for having pie, he had an excuse what's Floyd's?!
 
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Artist and Lee Moore are going to be good players if they stay, that's obvious. They are having some growing pains though and the team chemistry has been bad all year. The rebounding especially offensive rebounding is killing this team. Floyd put all his hope in a 7'1 100 pound kid who has shown no dominance in the paint and is injury prone. Now that he's not available Floyd has no answer, cause he didn't recruit a replacement for Hunter or Langley that could help rebound. Floyd is prideful and out of touch with the realities of today's college basketball game. They may possibly be better next year with kids like Winn and Touchet the showing promise, but I'd love to see him walk away, before this hole he's dug gets even deeper. We are gonna have a 6 year drought from the NCAA or winning a post season game. If this is what our proud program has come to then shame on Stull and DR. Nat for allowing it. A once proud program is not even good enough to be near the top of a terrible conference. I'm to the point of petitioning all miner fans who care to write a letter to Stull that we won't stand for where this program is right now. The last time we were in such a drought was after Haskins was penalized for having pie, he had an excuse what's Floyd's?!
The problem with petitioning Stull is that he will just ignore it. To me, he doesn't listen to the fans. Look at the whole tailgating issue as one example. Basketball and football games are no longer fan friendly. I will say that the women's games do offer a little more that makes being at the Don enjoyable.
 
Floyd is prideful and out of touch with the realities of today's college basketball game.

Explain to me how a coach that was successful at USC right before he came to UTEP all of a sudden has lost touch with the realities you speak of and the kids juden spoke of. I call BS.....

I will repeat, I think he should be gone, but you guys are nuts...
 
Explain to me how a coach that was successful at USC right before he came to UTEP all of a sudden has lost touch with the realities you speak of and the kids juden spoke of. I call BS.....

I will repeat, I think he should be gone, but you guys are nuts...
It doesn't matter what he's done before, isn't that obvious after 6 years!? I didn't say he forgot how to coach or even win for that matter. However his game plan is not working here at Utep. Be that the players he's reaching for or feels he only can bring here or whatever. Not every coach is a great for every school and situation. He was the sentimental favorite when hired, but his high risk high reward approach at recruiting has not worked out. His only year of almost making the NCAA was with Barbee's team. So I ask you the question how does a coach who's won everywhere not win here.....? Maybe he's just not the man for this job, cause obviously coaches have came in and done it before him, so it's not the University now is it. Now who's Nuts?
 
I repeat, I think he should be gone because he hasn't won here. That's the bottom line.

But....the reasons he hasn't won here that you guys are mentioning just don't make sense. Period.
 
In a random thought; I was looking back at Floyd's Signing Class from just 2 years ago. This was the Signing Class that got so much attention and was even ranked as high as the 16th best Signing Class in the entire Nation. Here were the 6 players that signed with us during that Signing Class:

- Isaac Hamilton(4 Star)
- Vince Hunter(4 Star)
- Andre Spight(3 Star)
- Jacob Thomas(JC)
- Josh Brown.
- Jake Flaggert.

- Out of the 6 players, only 2 ever played a single minute of basketball at UTEP.
- Out of the 6 players, only 1 player(Sophomore Jake Flaggert) is still at UTEP this season.

It's hard on a Program when you miss out on an entire class, missing out on an entire class is almost like suffering a self-emposed sanction. That class would have been upper classmen starting this season and as upperclassmen, they should be leading our Program at this time. Instead, all that you have is Jake Flaggert.

Bingo!
 
I repeat, I think he should be gone because he hasn't won here. That's the bottom line.

But....the reasons he hasn't won here that you guys are mentioning just don't make sense. Period.

Having played sports my whole life and having coached for the last 20 years, the afore mentioned reasons for lack of success are as plausible as any. Not quite sure why you don't think they make sense. What does make sense then? Why isn't he getting it done?
 
I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think he lost touch with players and can't coach anymore going from one school to another. That's just crazy. He was successful at USC. He hasn't been here. It's something else.
Think outside the box. Don't be so damn deadset that you have to be right.
 
I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think he lost touch with players and can't coach anymore going from one school to another. That's just crazy. He was successful at USC. He hasn't been here. It's something else.
Think outside the box. Don't be so damn deadset that you have to be right.

Chill the fuk out dude. There's a whole host of people that feel that way. Not just me. I've asked you twice what you think it is, to get YOUR opinion and you have yet to provide an explanation. And you're a business owner? Nice communication skills!
 
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Once again I will state MY opinion. Floyd has won at every place he has coached in college. His last stop before UTEP he was at USC. which he took his team into the NCAA tournament the LAST 3 years he coached there. He then came to UTEP. So you guys think its possible he lost touch with players since then? fine. I think that's just stupid. You think he was using social media at USC but not here at UTEP? C'mon man!

Look brotha, your reading skills are a little weak. I have stressed (with less detail) that this is my opinion because quite honestly, none of us know WTF is going on. Something is definately wrong, but I for one won't sit here thinking I have all the answers. Unlike some people..... :) When I use the word "think". it means an opinion not based on fact. :)

Hey, want to check my communication skills? Stop by and chat. I communicate better in person, and boy oh boy do I have the gift of gab! Anything can get screwed up on a message board.
 
Once again I will state MY opinion. Floyd has won at every place he has coached in college. His last stop before UTEP he was at USC. which he took his team into the NCAA tournament the LAST 3 years he coached there. He then came to UTEP. So you guys think its possible he lost touch with players since then? fine. I think that's just stupid. You think he was using social media at USC but not here at UTEP? C'mon man!

Look brotha, your reading skills are a little weak. I have stressed (with less detail) that this is my opinion because quite honestly, none of us know WTF is going on. Something is definately wrong, but I for one won't sit here thinking I have all the answers. Unlike some people..... :) When I use the word "think". it means an opinion not based on fact. :)

Hey, want to check my communication skills? Stop by and chat. I communicate better in person, and boy oh boy do I have the gift of gab! Anything can get screwed up on a message board.

Ok, not gonna quibble over semantics here. The way I see it is you have given your opinion of what it is NOT. That's fine, as I'm not gonna push anymore as to what you think it might actually BE.

Don't make the mistake in thinking that I think I know what is going on. A few of us have mentioned possibilities. On a forum, it's an appropriate place for speculating, or taking a stab at things in the dark. Talking strictly facts is dry and if one wants them, the media outlets usually come close enough to providing them. I don't think anybody on this forum actually thinks they know for sure what the heck is going on. Also I certainly don't buy into all the reasons that you are refuting. I have a strong feeling of what at least I think part of the problem is, but again, I don't claim to know. There's that.

As far as stopping by your place some day. I may just do that when I come back into town. I know there's at least one thing we have in common and I can talk about the Miners all day long, as well. I agree, translation can get screwed up on a message board.
 
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I never stated I know the exact reasons for his lack of success up to this point, but a few things are obvious. Most notably his recruiting methods and players he's either brought in or has tried to bring in that haven't worked out have lost obvious holes in year 6. At USC he was able to A. Recruit better players and B. Go to the NCAA with only 20 wins, so the two can't be compared, same goes for Iowa St. In CUSA it's a one bid league and the fact is over the last 6 years UTEP is anywhere from 3rd to 5th and that just won't cut it. I think Floyd could consistently win 20+ games and go to an NCAA once or twice every 10 years, but that's not what Miner fans expected from this hire. He's simply underachieving and all we can do is take educated guesses at why this is so. He's missing 2 players he expected to have this year and we don't know how much of a difference they would've made. The real concerns though is the team not improving as the season goes on and losing games like they did Saturday agates being up so big. Now is that coaching or team chemistry I'm not sure, but at the end of the day it falls on the coach and people are angry, cause he's just not putting out a product Miner Faithful can be proud of. I think he stays at least one more year, but the ice is very thin in Miner land and whatever it is that's not allowing him to be successful here needs to be rectified or he will be graciously forced out soon!
 
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