How Boise St did it

[MinerInWisconsin]

When Petersen coached at BSU he planned for a great football program. Sounds a bit like Kugler's plan but we still need the execution of the plan. The article was written 2 years ago but it's a good read for us today. Thoughts?

"In fact, Boise State’s last seven recruiting classes have on average been ranked 69 out of 120 Division I FBS institutions. During that time, the program signed a single “4 star” prospect,"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbe...d-the-blueprint-for-organizational-greatness/

 

[jdubb66]

Great post. Kugler sure seems to be doing some of these things. Sure would like to see some success though.

 

[unihorn]

Boise has done a great job of finding 3-star diamonds in the rough and coaching them up. The values fit is important to them, but so is innate football TALENT. If you recruit guys who are a fit culturally, but don't have the physical gifts to be great football players, you'll fail. Their current coach Harsin is a bright offensive mind who seems to be picking up right where Petersen left off.

 

[jdubb66]

How many great Boise St. NFL players can you think of?

 

[utep2step]

Boise has done a great job of finding 3-star diamonds in the rough and coaching them up. The values fit is important to them, but so is innate football TALENT. If you recruit guys who are a fit culturally, but don't have the physical gifts to be great football players, you'll fail. Their current coach Harsin is a bright offensive mind who seems to be picking up right where Petersen left off.

Read an article that the initial blueprint for their early success was northern California players who went largely under the radar. But Boise is a rich town and the town totally was committed to building a solid program.

 

[unihorn]

How many great Boise St. NFL players can you think of?

Boise State
PLAYER TEAM POSITION
Jay Ajayi Miami Dolphins Running Back
Richie Brockel Carolina Panthers Tight End
Ryan Clady Denver Broncos Offensive Tackle
Tyrone Crawford Dallas Cowboys Defensive Tackle
George Iloka Cincinnati Bengals Strong Safety
Jeron Johnson Washington Redskins Defensive Back
DeMarcus Lawrence Dallas Cowboys Defensive End
Charles Leno Chicago Bears Offensive Tackle
Doug Martin Tampa Bay Buccaneers Running Back
Shea McClellin Chicago Bears Linebacker
Kellen Moore Dallas Cowboys Quarterback
Matt Paradis Denver Broncos Center
Orlando Scandrick Dallas Cowboys Cornerback
Jamar Taylor Miami Dolphins Cornerback
Kyle Wilson New Orleans Saints Defensive Back
Billy Winn Indianapolis Colts

 

[Nugget 07]

Read an article that the initial blueprint for their early success was northern California players who went largely under the radar. But Boise is a rich town and the town totally was committed to building a solid program.

Exactly, I think we can borrow ideas but we can't copy it 100%--it won't work. El Paso is in a different region, lower income, majority Hispanic pop, border town, we are not Boise. Yes, Boise is Boise and not Dallas, LA, Miami, etc. but it is a different town.

UTEP needs to borrow ideas from them but model it differently. I would rather look for ideas and models from the Kansas St. program. They had a long history of losing similar to ours. Boise was 1AA and moved up. Manhattan and El Paso are not the same but Kansas St.'s program before Snyder was almost a mirror image to what UTEP is now.

Now granted K State was in a power conference, and that made things easier for them but I find more similarities with them than I do with Boise. Every mid major wants to be Boise and guess what? It hasn't worked out.

 

[unihorn]

K State has done it by bringing in JUCOs.

 

[Nugget 07]

K State has done it by bringing in JUCOs.

Nothing wrong with the Juco formula when it's become obvious 2* HS players at UTEP don't work.

Bring in the JUCOS!

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

Nothing wrong with the Juco formula when it's become obvious 2* HS players at UTEP don't work.

Bring in the JUCOS!

I agree that there needs to be a good mix of JUCOS. The problem is that you end up short handed because of their 2 year commitment.

 

[jdubb66]

Boise State
PLAYER TEAM POSITION
Jay Ajayi Miami Dolphins Running Back
Richie Brockel Carolina Panthers Tight End
Ryan Clady Denver Broncos Offensive Tackle
Tyrone Crawford Dallas Cowboys Defensive Tackle
George Iloka Cincinnati Bengals Strong Safety
Jeron Johnson Washington Redskins Defensive Back
DeMarcus Lawrence Dallas Cowboys Defensive End
Charles Leno Chicago Bears Offensive Tackle
Doug Martin Tampa Bay Buccaneers Running Back
Shea McClellin Chicago Bears Linebacker
Kellen Moore Dallas Cowboys Quarterback
Matt Paradis Denver Broncos Center
Orlando Scandrick Dallas Cowboys Cornerback
Jamar Taylor Miami Dolphins Cornerback
Kyle Wilson New Orleans Saints Defensive Back
Billy Winn Indianapolis Colts

The KEY word there was "great". Kellen Moore is as great as Jameil Showers.

 

[unihorn]

The KEY word there was "great". Kellen Moore is as great as Jameil Showers.

Scandrick is damn good.

 

[Minerforlife]

Read an article that the initial blueprint for their early success was northern California players who went largely under the radar. But Boise is a rich town and the town totally was committed to building a solid program.

Boise is not a rich town. Its very nice but not rich.

 

[DAYDEV]

Biggest difference Boise bought in a college offense built to compete with the top schools. UTEP has a NFL offense that will cintinue to get blown out. Boise had a progressive thinking coach UTEP doesn't. El Paso has alot to offer in my opinion and when recruits asked me I tell them I loved going to El Paso and felt my son was safer in El Paso than the one in Lawrence Ks. The right coach can get UTEP where it needs to be. But the school has to be committed to spending for a coach and not a coach who fits the budget. You get a budget team. Maybe Kug sees the error of his ways and changes his my way or highway stance.

 

[Voice of the Mosquito]

Some of this is pure garbage. Boise State football was winning long before Peterson came up with "this so called grand plan" Check the Big Sky Conference football champions and you will find BSU football winning big when they were NCAA 2a or what ever that was classed back then. They had a good program from the start. As for their recruiting they had a huge advantage that in reality only BYU and BSU can use to build. Boise is heavy Mormon country (as is most of Idaho, Oregon and Utah). Mormon kids can go on Mission, Redshirt or lay out a year and enter college as 22yr old freshman. You really can build a program when your line is 26 year olds and playing against 19 year old kids. As for K-State they were dregs, period but two (and secret #3) things got them going (1) a wad of cash from the Big 12 (when the southwest conference broke up) a good coach, Bill Snider (who had to come out of retirement to save them a second time) and in they took a lot of ?????players, transfers, parolees, gang leaders, rapists etc. If you remember the movie Blazing Saddles, the part where the governor was recruiting thugs to destroy the town of Rockridge, that is kind what the 90's recruiting classes looked like at KSU. When they got winning they started taking a few legit "students" into the fold. UTEP will have to find it's own path, style and way, there isn't any model to copy (this isn't Algebra 1). Kugler is a good coach and is smart, is he a good fit at UTEP? who knows but shit blaming him or Stull for all of UTEPs football problems is stupid (we were losing long before these guys showed up).

 

[jdubb66]

"I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and"...Mormons. - Hedley Lamar

Some of this is pure garbage. Boise State football was winning long before Peterson came up with "this so called grand plan" Check the Big Sky Conference football champions and you will find BSU football winning big when they were NCAA 2a or what ever that was classed back then. They had a good program from the start. As for their recruiting they had a huge advantage that in reality only BYU and BSU can use to build. Boise is heavy Mormon country (as is most of Idaho, Oregon and Utah). Mormon kids can go on Mission, Redshirt or lay out a year and enter college as 22yr old freshman. You really can build a program when your line is 26 year olds and playing against 19 year old kids. As for K-State they were dregs, period but two (and secret #3) things got them going (1) a wad of cash from the Big 12 (when the southwest conference broke up) a good coach, Bill Snider (who had to come out of retirement to save them a second time) and in they took a lot of ?????players, transfers, parolees, gang leaders, rapists etc. If you remember the movie Blazing Saddles, the part where the governor was recruiting thugs to destroy the town of Rockridge, that is kind what the 90's recruiting classes looked like at KSU. When they got winning they started taking a few legit "students" into the fold. UTEP will have to find it's own path, style and way, there isn't any model to copy (this isn't Algebra 1). Kugler is a good coach and is smart, is he a good fit at UTEP? who knows but shit blaming him or Stull for all of UTEPs football problems is stupid (we were losing long before these guys showed up).

 

[Nugget 07]

Some of this is pure garbage. Boise State football was winning long before Peterson came up with "this so called grand plan" Check the Big Sky Conference football champions and you will find BSU football winning big when they were NCAA 2a or what ever that was classed back then. They had a good program from the start. As for their recruiting they had a huge advantage that in reality only BYU and BSU can use to build. Boise is heavy Mormon country (as is most of Idaho, Oregon and Utah). Mormon kids can go on Mission, Redshirt or lay out a year and enter college as 22yr old freshman. You really can build a program when your line is 26 year olds and playing against 19 year old kids. As for K-State they were dregs, period but two (and secret #3) things got them going (1) a wad of cash from the Big 12 (when the southwest conference broke up) a good coach, Bill Snider (who had to come out of retirement to save them a second time) and in they took a lot of ?????players, transfers, parolees, gang leaders, rapists etc. If you remember the movie Blazing Saddles, the part where the governor was recruiting thugs to destroy the town of Rockridge, that is kind what the 90's recruiting classes looked like at KSU. When they got winning they started taking a few legit "students" into the fold. UTEP will have to find it's own path, style and way, there isn't any model to copy (this isn't Algebra 1). Kugler is a good coach and is smart, is he a good fit at UTEP? who knows but shit blaming him or Stull for all of UTEPs football problems is stupid (we were losing long before these guys showed up).

Nobody is blaming Kugler for UTEPs past problems. He is getting blamed for the CURRENT problems, and rightfully so. You don't lose to FIU by 40 points, no excuses for that. If he is so smart then fix it! If he can't then he isn't the right fit and should go use his smarts elsewhere. He may be a "good coach" but the jury is out on him being a "good" Head Coach, and recruiter.

As for the KState model, you have to push the envelope at times and take risks when you have had a losing program for 50+ years. Successful business people always push.

 

[Fishblack]

Not buying the Mormon explanation.

According to this, Boise St. has 3 returning missionaries In 2015. Only one for 2014 and one for 2013. Compare that with 74 for BYU, 22 for Utah St and 20 for Utah

http://www.deseretnews.com/top/3367/0/Returned-Mormon-missionaries-in-2015-FBS-college-football.html

 

[Voice of the Mosquito]

"push the envelope" dam that technical jargon. Not sure if you mean cheat, break the rules, be dishonest or ???. I am in business (I think I have been successful, some may differ in that respect, but I can honestly say that I have never pushed the envelope, so to speak). I have been honest, truthful and faithful to my ethics. I think coach is doing the same and time will tell if that is going to be his success. Way too early tell, but we went to a bowl last year and I count that as a success. About losing to FIU by forty comment, well there are better teams in this conference than what their name or won loss record foretells. FIU is likely one of those teams. Losing players at UTEP's level is a killer, period. FBS schools don't have depth, they can't recruit it, the big boys get those kids for a few years. Sometimes a player like Showers make a choice to transfer, many stay an choose to sit on the bench. I ask you would you rather be third string a Norte Dame, with little chance to play or be a part time starter at UTEP?

 

[Voice of the Mosquito]

Not buying the Mormon explanation.

According to this, Boise St. has 3 returning missionaries In 2015. Only one for 2014 and one for 2013. Compare that with 74 for BYU, 22 for Utah St and 20 for Utah

http://www.deseretnews.com/top/3367/0/Returned-Mormon-missionaries-in-2015-FBS-college-football.html

It does not take many mature, coachable and experienced players to impact a team (3 you listed this year look to be starters or 2nd string). Older kids have a huge impact, they don't have to be NFL ready. I looked at the list an WOW, BYU should be competing for the NC, according to my analysis.

 

[Voice of the Mosquito]

"I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and"...Mormons. - Hedley Lamar

Top Shelf Reply (better than mine!!!!!) Dam where is Heddy (Hedley you dimwit!) when you need him.

 

[Fishblack]

It does not take many mature, coachable and experienced players to impact a team (3 you listed this year look to be starters or 2nd string). Older kids have a huge impact, they don't have to be NFL ready. I looked at the list an WOW, BYU should be competing for the NC, according to my analysis.

From the Boise st. football website:

LB Darren Lee has 12 tackles, 1 interception. 3rd string. Good for 14th leading tackler.

DT Tutulupeatau Mataele has 4 tackles. 2nd string. Was ruled ineligible to play 2013 and 2014 seasons because of academic reasons.

DE Durrant Miles has appeared in a game, but has not recorded any stats. 3rd string


If it's just a couple of Mormons that make the difference, let's look at teams that have similar numbers of Mormons on their team, and are located in the same conference as Boise St. According to that link, those teams are UNLV, SJSU, Wyoming and UNM. I'll go as far back as 2011, when Boise joined the MWC. They should have close to the same performance on the field.

Boise St
2015: 5-1
2014: 12-2
2013: 8-5
2012: 11-2
2011: 12-1

UNLV
2015: 2-4
2014: 2-11
2013: 7-6
2012: 2-11
2011: 2-10

San Jose St
2015: 3-3
2014: 3-9
2013: 6-6
2012: 11-2
2011: 5-7

Wyoming
2015: 0-6
2014: 4-8
2013: 5-7
2012: 4-8
2011: 8-5

New Mexico
2015: 3-3
2014: 4-8
2013: 3-9
2012: 4-9
2011: 1-11

In only one instance did a team have a better record than Boise's worst year.

Since you mentioned NFL ready, I'd thought it might be interesting to compare the number of players from each school currently in the NFL

Boise: 16
UNLV: 2
SJSU: 6
Wyoming: 6
New Mexico: 2

Boise St has more players in the NFL than those other 4 combined.

I don't know the exact formula for sustained success in college football. If I did, I'd be making millions somewhere as a head coach. However, if I was a betting man, I'd wager that it really doesn't depend on sprinkling a couple of Mormons on your roster.

 

[Imaminer]

Boise is not a rich town. Its very nice but not rich.

Maybe he meant in comparison to El Paso. Don't you know that EP is a "poor" town. Heck, you can't read an article about us that doesn't emphasize how "poor" we are. It gets really annoying after a while.

 

[Imaminer]

Nobody is blaming Kugler for UTEPs past problems. He is getting blamed for the CURRENT problems, and rightfully so. You don't lose to FIU by 40 points, no excuses for that. If he is so smart then fix it! If he can't then he isn't the right fit and should go use his smarts elsewhere. He may be a "good coach" but the jury is out on him being a "good" Head Coach, and recruiter.

As for the KState model, you have to push the envelope at times and take risks when you have had a losing program for 50+ years. Successful business people always push.

Let's see now, Kugler took over a program that was totally in the dumpster. He had something like 14 scholarship players on the defensive side of the ball. He inherited a bunch of guys who were attitudinal divas who weren't interested in attending class and wouldn't put in the work in the weight room off season to improve. He came in late and had to find a way to keep the few quality recruits left from the Price era. He improved the program his second year so that UTEP led the nation in improvement from the previous year, took the team to a bowl game and got the players to buy in to his system. From a point where the program was punished for a low APR of 911 to this year when the APR score is 1000 meaning every kid is making satisfactory progress toward graduating, but in your infinite wisdom and knowledge of college football programs you think he should resign. Having 14 players, many of whom were starters or 2nd team backups out with injuries really isn't a factor - according to you. Well, actually maybe you should take your expertise and transfer it to a team worthy of your "support" - say, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, A&M or, wait - Ohio State or Alabama may be the only programs worthy of your attention. Somehow, I suspect UTEP will survive.

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

Maybe he meant in comparison to El Paso. Don't you know that EP is a "poor" town. Heck, you can't read an article about us that doesn't emphasize how "poor" we are. It gets really annoying after a while.

I think El Paso being a poor town is a stereotype. Have you ever been to the restaurants and malls on weekends (and even during the week). They are packed. I think that is the reason restaurants, etc. didn't want to built here because they thought El Paso is a poor city. They realized El Paso isn't and that is why you see some many new businesses opening up.

 

[El Paso Fan]

Let's see now, Kugler took over a program that was totally in the dumpster. He had something like 14 scholarship players on the defensive side of the ball. He inherited a bunch of guys who were attitudinal divas who weren't interested in attending class and wouldn't put in the work in the weight room off season to improve. He came in late and had to find a way to keep the few quality recruits left from the Price era. He improved the program his second year so that UTEP led the nation in improvement from the previous year, took the team to a bowl game and got the players to buy in to his system. From a point where the program was punished for a low APR of 911 to this year when the APR score is 1000 meaning every kid is making satisfactory progress toward graduating, but in your infinite wisdom and knowledge of college football programs you think he should resign. Having 14 players, many of whom were starters or 2nd team backups out with injuries really isn't a factor - according to you. Well, actually maybe you should take your expertise and transfer it to a team worthy of your "support" - say, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, A&M or, wait - Ohio State or Alabama may be the only programs worthy of your attention. Somehow, I suspect UTEP will survive.

Again, Kugler was short on scholarship players because he had no interest in the personal development of players or in mentoring anyone, he was just quick to run anyone off. The second season has proven to be a mirage - blowouts by good teams and wins against losing record teams.

 

[Voice of the Mosquito]

Utah State up on Boise by 34 points at the half, a guess BSU is using the UTEP model.

 

[Epsilon00]

I think El Paso being a poor town is a stereotype. Have you ever been to the restaurants and malls on weekends (and even during the week). They are packed. I think that is the reason restaurants, etc. didn't want to built here because they thought El Paso is a poor city. They realized El Paso isn't and that is why you see some many new businesses opening up.

True true. Also, they don't realize how many rich people from Juarez and Chihuahua either live in EP or visit EP on a regular basis. Those guys spend a lot of cash here.