So any details on Terrys contract?

[ShovelMan66]

The belief is that with this very solid recruiting class that Terry will be successful very quickly here. That is why some would like a solid buyout now. If he wins this year and next it will be too late to put the buyout in. I would hope the buyout would be in the 600-750k range and that it is already in the contract.

Belief by who exactly? If Terry is/was such a hot commodity, how did UTEP land him? What other schools wanted him?

How did buyouts help UTEP out previously?
After BG left, we had Doc, then Barbee, then Floyd. It didn’t work out with Floyd, but how would have any previous buyouts helped UTEP more?

 

[develman]

Just the opposite in most cases. A school wants to cover the cost of hiring new coaches and if a coach is doing well, a power school wouldn't blink twice at a 1 or 2 million dollar buyout.

An agent will argue if you value my client that much pay him more. Also, god forbid a coach needs to be fired for any reason, that buyout is guaranteed money to the fired coach, a mid-major school won't risk having that much money guaranteed to someone fired for cause.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

They play in the Big East. Is that a mid-major conference? Only Villanova, Georgetown, St John’s etc are in that conference.

Yeah, you're right. I guess I just never considered the part of a major conference based on name...

 

[Stanman915]

Belief by who exactly? If Terry is/was such a hot commodity, how did UTEP land him? What other schools wanted him?

How did buyouts help UTEP out previously?
After BG left, we had Doc, then Barbee, then Floyd. It didn’t work out with Floyd, but how would have any previous buyouts helped UTEP more?

The belief would be by the UTEP athletic department. Why would any program hire a coach they didn't think would win. Terry was able to win on a solid level despite the fact Fresno St. did not give him a lot of resources. Power conference schools had not looked too closely at Terry because Fresno St. had not made a sweet sixteen type of run in the NCAA tournament. There was not buyout for BG because he never did sign his contract. I am not sure about a buyout with Doc. They buyout with Barbee helped to increase the salary offer for Floyd. A buyout of 600-750K would help to cover the cost associated with finding a new coach and give the athletic department the ability to increase the pay of the new coach by 100k. The key with a buyout is that you want it high enough to be able to do the things I mentioned but not so high that it hamstrings the school if the coach does not meet expectations.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Yeah, you're right. I guess I just never considered the part of a major conference based on name...

Xavier
Villanova
Georgetown
St Johns
Marquette
Butler
Providence
Seton Hall
DePaul
Creighton

Those aren’t mid-majors. Had 6 bids last season and 7 the year before that. Do you watch college basketball? The Big East has a 12 year $500 million TV deal. Xavier a mid-major, hilarious.

 

[ShovelMan66]

The belief would be by the UTEP athletic department. Why would any program hire a coach they didn't think would win. Terry was able to win on a solid level despite the fact Fresno St. did not give him a lot of resources. Power conference schools had not looked too closely at Terry because Fresno St. had not made a sweet sixteen type of run in the NCAA tournament.

So how is Terry’s hiring different from any other schools hiring? The other programs have the same beliefs too.

He was pursued by nobody else then right? Tell me again, why we should have a big buyout???

 

[JCorona]

So how is Terry’s hiring different from any other schools hiring? The other programs have the same beliefs too.

He was pursued by nobody else then right? Tell me again, why we should have a big buyout???

I’ll give you two recent coaches hired by CUSA Texas schools. You tell me who got the better deal.

One coach had an overall record of 126-108 with a conference championship, a NCAA appearance, an NIT appearance, a CBI championship run. The school that hired him paid no buyout.

The other school hired a coach with a 20-12 record. No conference championships no post season appearances and paid a 500k buy out for him.

Based on that example who was the smarter school on the hiring end? Which school that lost their coach made the smarter contract from the beginning?

 

[ShovelMan66]

I’ll give you two recent coaches hired by CUSA Texas schools. You tell me who got the better deal.

One coach had an overall record of 126-108 with a conference championship, a NCAA appearance, an NIT appearance, a CBI championship run. The school that hired him paid no buyout.

The other school hired a coach with a 20-12 record. No conference championships no post season appearances and paid a 500k buy out for him.

Based on that example who was the smarter school on the hiring end? Which school that lost their coach made the smarter contract from the beginning?

Most people would pick Terry's credentials over whoever is the 20-12 guy. However, that does not mean he will be more successful or warrants a big(ger) buyout. Again, who else wanted CRT? By most accounts, Fresno is not that upset about losing him.

Just because someone has success before, does not guarantee future success. After the 09-10 season, UTEP hired a guy with multiple sweet 16s, took multiple schools to the dance, and coached in the NBA. During that off season, Boise hired Leon Rice and Wagner hired Dan Hurley. Neither had the pedigree of Floyd. Wouldn't you have rather hired one of them?

I hope Terry will be a success, doesn't mean that 20-12 guy won't be or that school A was smarter for having a buyout. The team that's smarter, is the one who has the most success.

 

[JCorona]

Most people would pick Terry's credentials over whoever is the 20-12 guy. However, that does not mean he will be more successful or warrants a big(ger) buyout. Again, who else wanted CRT? By most accounts, Fresno is not that upset about losing him.

Just because someone has success before, does not guarantee future success. After the 09-10 season, UTEP hired a guy with multiple sweet 16s, took multiple schools to the dance, and coached in the NBA. During that off season, Boise hired Leon Rice and Wagner hired Dan Hurley. Neither had the pedigree of Floyd. Wouldn't you have rather hired one of them?

I hope Terry will be a success, doesn't mean that 20-12 guy won't be or that school A was smarter for having a buyout. The team that's smarter, is the one who has the most success.

When Arkansas St put that 500k buyout on a coach who had never won a D1 game no one wanted him. A year later UNT wanted him and paid a cool half a million for him. That’s what we are trying to tell you. Just because no one wants him now does not mean no one will want him next year or the year after. It’s a gamble. Sometimes they pay off sometimes they don’t.

SDSU put a 2.5 million buyout on Dutcher who had never won a D1 game. No one wanted him at the time of his hiring. If he is successful the way SDSU envisions they will have a nice flow of cash to help out the athletics department.

Both coaches you mentioned had buyout clauses on their contracts. It’s cool you’re right. Let’s be dumb like Fresno St and let Terry walk away free and clear once he’s successful. To lessen the pain hopefully it’s not another mid major school that takes advantage of our incompetence.

 

[ShovelMan66]

I’m not saying not to have one, but it’s irrelevant. He will leave to any school that is willing to pay. $2 milly ain’t nothing to UT and TAMU. However, if he needs to be fired, that $2 million will cripple UTEP.

 

[MineroFanatico]

That’s why you make the buyout for what is about equivalent to the coach’s salary. Not millions. Not sure the length of CRT’s contract but I’d imagine it’s in the 3-4 year range, which should be the minimum amount of time we give him anyway, even if he’s subpar (which I have a hard time believing will be the case). If he’s plucked before then, we have a little extra $ to incentivize the next coach’s contract via the buyout money.

 

[ShovelMan66]

That’s why you make the buyout for what is about equivalent to the coach’s salary. Not millions. Not sure the length of CRT’s contract but I’d imagine it’s in the 3-4 year range, which should be the minimum amount of time we give him anyway, even if he’s subpar (which I have a hard time believing will be the case). If he’s plucked before then, we have a little extra $ to incentivize the next coach’s contract via the buyout money.

We didn’t get any buyout for Floyd leaving right? Didn’t have an issue getting CRT here right?

Gillespie didn’t have a “signed contract” and we ended up with a coach who took us to the NCAAs and NIT in his 2 years.

 

[FiliUTEP]

Shovellman do you have investments? Do you have a house or a car? Im sure you have insurance for them if you do. Do you have any stocks?

Anytime we Americans or Humans purchase something smart people like to protect their investment. Alot of times somthing may never happen like car or house burning up. But there is this chance that something may happen. There is this chance that stock market might crash.

With Utep putting a buy out on Terry all they are doing is protecting their investment. As fans of Utep and the donors of Utep have the right to know and should demand that Terry and Dimel has a buy out.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Both coaches you mentioned had buyout clauses on their contracts. It’s cool you’re right. Let’s be dumb like Fresno St and let Terry walk away free and clear once he’s successful. To lessen the pain hopefully it’s not another mid major school that takes advantage of our incompetence.

Both coaches have them now, but not when they were hired, they weren’t D1 head coaches yet. All I’m saying is that you can’t hire just on past accomplishments to justify a hiring and/or buyout.

In 2010, if UTEP would have hired Leon Rice or Dan Hurley over Tim Floyd, everyone would have been pissed off and hot about it. Looking back, UTEP should have hired one of them or anyone else over Tim Floyd.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Shovellman do you have investments? Do you have a house or a car? Im sure you have insurance for them if you do. Do you have any stocks?

Anytime we Americans or Humans purchase something smart people like to protect their investment. Alot of times somthing may never happen like car or house burning up. But there is this chance that something may happen. There is this chance that stock market might crash.

With Utep putting a buy out on Terry all they are doing is protecting their investment. As fans of Utep and the donors of Utep have the right to know and should demand that Terry and Dimel has a buy out.

Again, not saying UTEP shouldn’t have one, but it makes no difference, especially to worry about it right now. No games have been played and what if he goes 2-27 next year and sleeps with one of his players. Extreme yes, but we shouldn’t be worried about a buyout and how much it is.

 

[JCorona]

Both coaches have them now, but not when they were hired, they weren’t D1 head coaches yet. All I’m saying is that you can’t hire just on past accomplishments to justify a hiring and/or buyout.

In 2010, if UTEP would have hired Leon Rice or Dan Hurley over Tim Floyd, everyone would have been pissed off and hot about it. Looking back, UTEP should have hired one of them or anyone else over Tim Floyd.

You literally just contradicted yourself in the first paragraph. They have them now after being successful D1 coaches for another program. It’s ok for those coaches to prove themselves elsewhere and receive a buyout but Terry who has already proved himself at another D1 program hasn’t earned the right to have a buyout at UTEP?

I though you were the self proclaimed smartest UTEP fan on here.

 

[MineroFanatico]

We didn’t get any buyout for Floyd leaving right? Didn’t have an issue getting CRT here right?

Gillespie didn’t have a “signed contract” and we ended up with a coach who took us to the NCAAs and NIT in his 2 years.

We also had Stull during those times you speak of. Not the most prudent of ADs, especially the last 7-10 years of his tenure. We can follow his model of doing business, or we can do better. I guess that point is lost on you, though.

 

[ShovelMan66]

No I didn’t. They have now because they’re D1 coaches, when they were hired, they did not. I was talking about credentials and how you put Terry’s stats out saying he is a “better” hire. Stats don’t always tell the whole story, as 2 non-D1 head coaches probably would have been better hires here than Floyd.

 

[ShovelMan66]

We also had Stull during those times you speak of. Not the most prudent of ADs, especially the last 7-10 years of his tenure. We can follow his model of doing business, or we can do better. I guess that point is lost on you, though.

My point is, that buyouts one way or another, did not stop UTEP from hiring a quality guy. They don’t matter. PERIOD. A school will get who they want.

 

[MineroFanatico]

My point is, that buyouts one way or another, did not stop UTEP from hiring a quality guy. They don’t matter. PERIOD. A school will get who they want.

Ok, whatever. You are constantly griping about how things can be done better at UTEP. Constantly. One of two posters who never seems satisfied. Now you’re trying to sell everyone on this idea that a buyout doesn’t matter...even if the proceeds can be used to increase and incentivize the next coach’s contract...thereby increasing chances at an even higher quality coach. Got it! Carry on...

 

[JCorona]

No I didn’t. They have now because they’re D1 coaches, when they were hired, they did not. I was talking about credentials and how you put Terry’s stats out saying he is a “better” hire. Stats don’t always tell the whole story, as 2 non-D1 head coaches probably would have been better hires here than Floyd.

So Terry isn’t a D1 hire? He was at Fresno and he is now here at UTEP. I provided two recent examples of non D1 coaches hired with buyout clauses from last year and this year. Not from 8 years ago. I can’t find any info on their original contracts cuz that’s old info. But why don’t you prove your point that those two coaches didn’t have a buyout clause. Link an article with those facts.

I’ll help you out with one link.

http://idahonews.com/archive/leon-rice--broncos-agree-to-contract-extension

The buyout for Rice's contract has also been increased to $175,000.

This indicates his original contract had a buyout clause. Not a big one but it had one.

 

[ShovelMan66]

So Terry isn’t a D1 hire? He was at Fresno and he is now here at UTEP. I provided two recent examples of non D1 coaches hired with buyout clauses from last year and this year. Not from 8 years ago. I can’t find any info on their original contracts cuz that’s old info. But why don’t you prove your point that those two coaches didn’t have a buyout clause. Link an article with those facts.

You’re missing the point. You listed Terry’s stats and then McWhatevers and said which one is a better hire. Stats don’t always hold up which is a better hire.

I then compared someone with good stats (Floyd) vs 2 other hires with no stats. Leon Rice was an assistant and Dan Hurley was a high school coach when they were hired in 2010. How many assistants and high school coaches have buyouts??? Using a coach’s past stats at a different school is no justification for a large buyout. Talking about at a mid-major school only.

 

[minerfan_14]

So, another thread that went down the rabbit hole. This time, there is no hatter to be found (Was never called Mad by Carroll)

https://giphy.com/gifs/alice-in-wonderland-cheshire-cat-k0CCW4PIPifIY

 

[ShovelMan66]

Ok, whatever. You are constantly griping about how things can be done better at UTEP. Constantly. One of two posters who never seems satisfied. Now you’re trying to sell everyone on this idea that a buyout doesn’t matter...even if the proceeds can be used to increase and incentivize the next coach’s contract...thereby increasing chances at an even higher quality coach. Got it! Carry on...

UTEP didn’t get money for Floyd leaving, seems like they got a quality coach anyway. If Terry were to be successful and leave, would UTEP not be able to hire a quality guy?

UTEP hired Terry from another mid-major and did it so with no buyout money from another school, dwindling attendance, dwindling TV and conference revenue. $700,000 more is not going to make a difference in UTEPs next coaching hire.

 

[JCorona]

You’re missing the point. You listed Terry’s stats and then McWhatevers and said which one is a better hire. Stats don’t always hold up which is a better hire.

I then compared someone with good stats (Floyd) vs 2 other hires with no stats. Leon Rice was an assistant and Dan Hurley was a high school coach when they were hired in 2010. How many assistants and high school coaches have buyouts??? Using a coach’s past stats at a different school is no justification for a large buyout. Talking about at a mid-major school only.

Ok man. My point stands firm McCasland had never coached D1 basketball he had a 500k buyout. Rice was an assistant he had some sort of buyout at Boise St. I can’t find any info on Hurley’s original contract he might have had one maybe not. So bad example. Keep shooting names at me and I’ll keep finding their buyout clauses.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Assistant coaches have buyout clauses? How much did UTEP pay Braswell and all those other turds they canned?

 

[JCorona]

Assistant coaches have buyout clauses? How much did UTEP pay Braswell and all those other turds they canned?

Rice was an assistant when he was hired by Boise St. Your own words. You keep changing the playing field every time you’re wrong. Terry is not a novice coach. He is a proven D1 coach. So compare apples to apples. Even when I show you coaches with zero HC experience at the D1 level with buyout clauses you turn around and say something about Floyd and Hurley. Stay focused. Terry should have a buyout and you know it. I don’t care if it’s only 100k.

 

[ShovelMan66]

I never said he shouldn’t. Just saying, it makes no difference! He will leave if UT comes calling, they will pay any amount. No need to be worried about it now or then.

 

[JCorona]

Since you like comparing us to your Aggies so much. Then why is that when NMSU hired Weir who had never been a HC they put a 450k buyout clause on him? One year later UNM poaches him away and NMSU cashes in.

Yes we should be worried. Because one a buyout clause prevents another similar g5 team from poaching him and two it puts money in Utep’s pocket when he is poached by a major school.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Since you like comparing us to your Aggies so much. Then why is that when NMSU hired Weir who had never been a HC they put a 450k buyout clause on him? One year later UNM poaches him away and NMSU cashes in.

Yes we should be worried. Because one a buyout clause prevents another similar g5 team from poaching him and two it puts money in Utep’s pocket when he is poached by a major school.

Those are valid reasons. Again though, what difference does it make? Say UTEP makes the Final 4 in 2 years and gets $600k for a buyout, how does that “help” UTEP? They just lost a coach and have to replace him. If they hire the wrong guy, nobody will remember anything about the buyout.

UTEP did just fine replacing their other coaches. They just hired Fresno’s guy after not receiving a buyout for the previous coach.

I’m telling you, it makes no difference how much it is or if it even exists. A coach will leave if they want to. A few extra bucks isn’t going to make a difference.

No reason to worry about it or insist it’s $600k. You guys are worried about a coach leaving for jobs that haven’t even been created yet.

 

[ShovelMan66]

Consider this the last time I will reply about the subject.

Yes, UTEP should have a buyout for CRT

It’s just not worth caring about. He might leave for greener pastures and UTEP will hire someone else to replace him.

Most schools don’t say “Gee I’m really glad we have those dollars rather than the departing coach”

 

[FiliUTEP]

Consider this the last time I will reply about the subject.

FINALLY

 

[UTEPfan1966]

Maybe I'm confused, but I will ask anyway....

Isn't a buy out only for coaches leaving taking another job forcing the new school to pay us? When we fire a coach, we are only responsible for the actual paying portion on the contract, no?

Therefore, we could set a million dollar buy out ensuring IF/WHEN a coach leaves for a bigger job, we get taken care of. It won't cripple us as shovel says...

 

[utep2step]

Rice was an assistant when he was hired by Boise St. Your own words. You keep changing the playing field every time you’re wrong. Terry is not a novice coach. He is a proven D1 coach. So compare apples to apples. Even when I show you coaches with zero HC experience at the D1 level with buyout clauses you turn around and say something about Floyd and Hurley. Stay focused. Terry should have a buyout and you know it. I don’t care if it’s only 100k.

This hits the nail on the head for any coach of any stature in college sports. But with our gag friends, facts don't matter.

 

[develman]

Maybe I'm confused, but I will ask anyway....

Isn't a buy out only for coaches leaving taking another job forcing the new school to pay us? When we fire a coach, we are only responsible for the actual paying portion on the contract, no?

Therefore, we could set a million dollar buy out ensuring IF/WHEN a coach leaves for a bigger job, we get taken care of. It won't cripple us as shovel says...

The buyout would be guaranteed money if said coach would be fired. Like an NFL player gets a certain amount of guaranteed money on his contract even if cut from the team. I'm not saying a buyout isn't smart, I just don't think UTEP would give any coach 1 to 2 million dollar buyout. In case it "hits the fan" they'd be on the hook for the money.

 

[axingfools1]

This hits the nail on the head for any coach of any stature in college sports. But with our gag friends, facts don't matter.

View embedded media

I agree 100% and would teach my kids the same. Unfortunately not many players care about this stuff anymore..

 

[Stanman915]

Both coaches have them now, but not when they were hired, they weren’t D1 head coaches yet. All I’m saying is that you can’t hire just on past accomplishments to justify a hiring and/or buyout.

In 2010, if UTEP would have hired Leon Rice or Dan Hurley over Tim Floyd, everyone would have been pissed off and hot about it. Looking back, UTEP should have hired one of them or anyone else over Tim Floyd.

In 2010 I was on this board saying we should hire Rodney Terry and not Tim Floyd. I would have been more than happy with Dan Hurley too.

 

[UTEPDefense]

In 2010 I was on this board saying we should hire Rodney Terry and not Tim Floyd. I would have been more than happy with Dan Hurley too.

What I remember about the 2010 coaching search is that Kappy was the first person to break the news that Randall Dickey had been selected as our next head coach. Which was incorrect:

"Foot in Mouth? KROD's Steve Kaplowitz Retracts Report that Randall Dickey Has Been Named UTEP's Head Basketball Coach."

https://www.minerrush.com/2010/3/29/1395467/the-not-so-broken-story-krod

Stanman's post about not selecting Terry or Hurley back in 2010 brings up a good question, in that why was Randall Dickey even being considered a finalist, when we apparently had a lot of other good candidates back in 2010?

 

[Stanman915]

What I remember about the 2010 coaching search is that Kappy was the first person to break the news that Randall Dickey had been selected as our next head coach. Which was incorrect:

"Foot in Mouth? KROD's Steve Kaplowitz Retracts Report that Randall Dickey Has Been Named UTEP's Head Basketball Coach."

https://www.minerrush.com/2010/3/29/1395467/the-not-so-broken-story-krod

Stanman's post about not selecting Terry or Hurley back in 2010 brings up a good question, in that why was Randall Dickey even being considered a finalist, when we apparently had a lot of other good candidates back in 2010?

Randal Dickey was a candidate because the players liked him and the administration wanted to keep the core group of players. Coach Terry was my number 1 choice in 2010 because of the players he was able to recruit to Texas and how many connections to Texas high school coaches. I new I was right when Fresno St. and Coach Terry came to the Don and beat UTEP. I was never a big Floyd fan. I remember way back when BCG was hired, that Floyd was a potential coach. I also remember Floyd saying he would never take over a program that was in such bad shape. Floyd only became interested in UTEP once the team was stocked with good players. In fact I was not a Floyd fan when he was assistant under Haskins. I was a student at UTEP during that time and played pick up games with many of the players and lets just say they didn't have much respect for Floyd.