UTEP in MWC(expansion talks) again
- Thread starter AZminer
- Start date
This tweet is a kick in the juevos. AD at UNLV doesn't think our bb program would help mwc bb. UTEP has a great history, a winning program for like, forever and better attendance than most in the mwc. It's true the Miners haven't been getting to the ncaa but damn.
Mark Anderson @markanderson65 18h18 hours ago
Kunzer-Murphy said the Mountain West needs to look seriously whether expansion candidates help basketball. Rice and UTEP don't. #unlv #RJnow
Mark Anderson @markanderson65 18h18 hours ago
Kunzer-Murphy said the Mountain West needs to look seriously whether expansion candidates help basketball. Rice and UTEP don't. #unlv #RJnow
Sad but true. Our athletic program has lingered in mediocrity for quite some time now....
The Ft. Bliss expansion has not gone unnoticed, and yes I believe Kuglar having success with the local kids has improved the perception. That Andress kid went to Big 10 country and played a lot as a True Frosh in Minnesota. Several others have gone to power schools and done well for themselves. Some MWC fans see ELP in bad light and think it doesn't add much value, but the people in power know ELP football has improved a lot. And while this is not the driving force behind them extending an invite, it is definitely a good selling point for UTEP to use.
We really need Kugler to do well next season. Floyd needs to win the C-USA Tournament. If expansion happens we need to position ourselves right.
While it's true that us and RICE aren't recent final four participants we also aren't going to bring down the conference rpi.
The last two season UTEP would have finished near the top 4 of MW rpi. This is without having the privalage of playing highly ranked rpi teams like SDSU, UNLV, UNM, Colorado St and even Boise St twice each season how MW teams do.
While RICE is not going to turn any heads right now it's in position to make a breakthrough. RICE has spent some serious money on improving the bball program. Tudor Fieldhouse was recently renovated. While it's small it's a luxurious and can be intimidating if it ever fills up in there. Their basketball coach Rhoades turned down an offer to coach VCU last season to remain with RICE. He is committed to improving the program and didn't take the first ticket out of Houston. This year they have some key injuries but watch out RICE is on the path to be a successful team.
The last two season UTEP would have finished near the top 4 of MW rpi. This is without having the privalage of playing highly ranked rpi teams like SDSU, UNLV, UNM, Colorado St and even Boise St twice each season how MW teams do.
While RICE is not going to turn any heads right now it's in position to make a breakthrough. RICE has spent some serious money on improving the bball program. Tudor Fieldhouse was recently renovated. While it's small it's a luxurious and can be intimidating if it ever fills up in there. Their basketball coach Rhoades turned down an offer to coach VCU last season to remain with RICE. He is committed to improving the program and didn't take the first ticket out of Houston. This year they have some key injuries but watch out RICE is on the path to be a successful team.
When conferences look to expand I always thought it was based more on football programs while basketball takes a back seat. Not saying our football program is great but it seems to be getting respectable.
GO MINERS!
GO MINERS!
True, and not only that, typically its been what kind of market value a program can bring to a conference, not how good a program is necessarily. Look no further than Rutgers and Maryland to the Big10. UTEP has to be on par with much, if not most, of the current MWC members.
I assume the AD at UNLV thinks his MBB tem is great? The last few years they have been declining. They do look better this year, but no way they are way better than UTEP. Also, what about San Jose St? What do they bring to the conference in basketball or football? As far as I can remember, they have not been good in either sport and yet they got in?? I do believe UTEP can hold their own in both sports should they get an invitation to the MWC.
I hate to say it but from the outside looking in our basketball sucks. We've only been to three tournaments in the last twenty years. UNLV is a perennial tournament team. The maddening part of it is that as miner fans we can see the huge potential we have in both sports. Its frustrating to constantly be mirred in mediocrity.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/mountain-west-might-consider-adding-rice-utep
The Las Vegas paper states that UTEP helps the RPI of the MWC, and that Rice does not, and this is a big consideration when adding a team to the conference.
The fact that it is in the Vegas paper today also shows that this is more than just rumors.
The Las Vegas paper states that UTEP helps the RPI of the MWC, and that Rice does not, and this is a big consideration when adding a team to the conference.
The fact that it is in the Vegas paper today also shows that this is more than just rumors.
I do not agree with your first sentence. In my opinion that sentence would apply to teams that are the bottom cellar dwellers of a conference which the Miners are not. Again my opinion. I do acknowledge that they have not been to the tournament since 2005 whereas UNLV's last tournament was in 2013. My post indicated they are declining. In 2014, they did not make the tournament; in 2013 and 2012 they got beat in the first round (which could lead some to wonder if they even warranted an invitation).
It is known throughout that the "powers to be" feel football is king and if that is the case, is UNLV a football power? I do not think so, which is why I stated the Miners can hold their own in both sports.
When the MWC was first concieved it was between us and UNLV for the last spot. The powers at be decided they would rather spend a weekend in vegas than El Paso. I agree overall our athletics program is equal to if not better than UNLV's. Our football is definitely better, although I like what Sanchez is doing with their program. Football is key I think even standing pat with the coordinators we could have won eight games next year. With new coordinators with the schedule we could win 10 or 11 games. UNLV will always have the advantage on us with location and perceived donor wealth. However, we can match them with our footbal program and attendance, however we have to push our programs especially football to the next level.
The merits of the move are many and most of us have posted our preferences and I agree a move would be good for UTEP. But there are some things to consider (1) The MWC is not the Old WAC that we once belonged to, the politics and I suspect the culture of the conference is different. Why this is important to me as a fan is I loved those games back in the 80's and 90's but thinking that this move is going to provide a return to those days may not be accurate. Many of my favorite games involved UTAH and BYU and they aren't in the conference any more. When I think about it terms who I would like UTEP to play, outside of UNM and maybe CSU, I have little rooting interest in most of the others. I don't think playing SJSU or UNLV is that much different than MTSU or UAB from a fan perspective. (2) The MWC is hindered somewhat by it's geography, it was in the old WAC days and it is to day.Travel complications, weather, low population media markets and distance to recruiting areas with population all play a role as is most schools being in the mountain time zone. (3) UTEP has enjoyed a reconnection of sorts with fans, family and alumni across the state the last 15 years and it appears this is a growing area of support. The majority of UTEPs scholarships are offered to Texas kids. If Utep does not retain a presence in Texas it may effect recruiting and those growing relationships it has built while in CUSA. Bringing RICE along is important. (4) If I were to rank the 3 FBS conferences, CUSA, MWC and AAC on only potential, I think the AAC has a huge advantage over both CUSA and MWC. What if an option to move to the AAC were to occur for UTEP? I doubt UTEP could pony up enough cash to jump twice. I am in favor of moving if the chance pops up but I don't think an offer is likely anytime soon which makes all of this moot.
#3 is a good point. There is a benefit in terms of recruiting and recognition by playing games in Dallas and Houston. But at the same time, in an age where you can watch any game from any where is it that much of a priority as it was say 15 years ago? "If" this were to happen it would be up to Stull to schedule games in East Texas in either football or basketball on a yearly basis.
I think the MWC has been over rated as a basketball conference. SDSU aside, MWC invites are a one and done. They benefit from a perception that they are a top bb conference but I don't see it. Several years ago, UNM was a 4 seed in the tournament. They were bounced out fairly quickly. I guess perception is reality but in my view, the bulk of the MWC teams are not better than UTEP.
In addition, being in the MWC may help recruiting in California and Arizona, for both football and basketball.
My main concern if we don't take this opportunity to leave is that our conference is one step away from being further diluted. We signed up to play against UH, SMU, Memphis, UCF not North Texas, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky or the Who's of Florida. Those don't even sound like school names more like directions on a map.
When the Big12 expands it's going to raid the AAC. Two more teams from CUSA could potentially end up moving conferences to the AAC. The replacement teams from the Sun Belt or FCS aren't going to be pretty.
Worse yet what if we decline the invitation and the MW turns around and still invites RICE and UTSA. Do we really want to be in a league w with N Texas and Texas St?
This is really no debate the MW conference is way better. Countless times the MW has played for and won BCS bowl or New Year's bowl. How many has CUSA played in? none zip zero. Perception is everything and unless CUSA goes on a binge and wins the next four or five Access Bowls we will always be looking up to the MW and AAC.
While I understand this could all be smoke and screens and nothing will happen for a few years. It could also be a message from the MW for us to "ponte las pilas" or in another words make it easy for us to invite you. Go win some league titles and bowl games in the next four years. Invest in our athletic programs and this wouldn't be a discussion it would be an automatic invite.
When the Big12 expands it's going to raid the AAC. Two more teams from CUSA could potentially end up moving conferences to the AAC. The replacement teams from the Sun Belt or FCS aren't going to be pretty.
Worse yet what if we decline the invitation and the MW turns around and still invites RICE and UTSA. Do we really want to be in a league w with N Texas and Texas St?
This is really no debate the MW conference is way better. Countless times the MW has played for and won BCS bowl or New Year's bowl. How many has CUSA played in? none zip zero. Perception is everything and unless CUSA goes on a binge and wins the next four or five Access Bowls we will always be looking up to the MW and AAC.
While I understand this could all be smoke and screens and nothing will happen for a few years. It could also be a message from the MW for us to "ponte las pilas" or in another words make it easy for us to invite you. Go win some league titles and bowl games in the next four years. Invest in our athletic programs and this wouldn't be a discussion it would be an automatic invite.
MWC 2.0 is head and shoulders above CUSA 3.0. The Big 12 will expand and raid the AAC. The AAC will raid CUSA, and our conference as stated above will be crap.
If the above does not happen, I still fully support a move. I would much rather play UNLV than FIU. I would much rather play Utah St (which kicked our ass in the bowl game) than FAU.
Best case for UTEP is to move to the MWC and make it priority 1 to schedule OOC games in Texas for all sports. We play NMSU yearly in football, and we need a body bag game for funds. That leaves us with potentially 2 games, 1 home and 1 away. I am aware scheduling can be a tall task but Stull can figure out how to schedule at least 1 in Texas. Add to that playing at Rice every other year and it works out just fine for the UTEP Alumni.
If the above does not happen, I still fully support a move. I would much rather play UNLV than FIU. I would much rather play Utah St (which kicked our ass in the bowl game) than FAU.
Best case for UTEP is to move to the MWC and make it priority 1 to schedule OOC games in Texas for all sports. We play NMSU yearly in football, and we need a body bag game for funds. That leaves us with potentially 2 games, 1 home and 1 away. I am aware scheduling can be a tall task but Stull can figure out how to schedule at least 1 in Texas. Add to that playing at Rice every other year and it works out just fine for the UTEP Alumni.
I believe my post on what the AD at UNLV said was misread by me. She did say that expansion would need to involve schools that helped basketball for the MWC. The writer is the one who said that UTEP and Rice don't help. Actually I believe UTEP does as others of you have pointed out.
If there were invitations sitting on the desk from both the AAC (with Houston and SMU) and the MWC, which would you want UTEP to accept? As currently setup, I would prefer the AAC.
If there were invitations sitting on the desk from both the AAC (with Houston and SMU) and the MWC, which would you want UTEP to accept? As currently setup, I would prefer the AAC.
I would prefer the AAC but either option is much better than CUSA. It looks like Memphis and Cinci are headed to the big 12. There will be some openings soon. BYU is out of options they are either going to have to join the MWC or AAC.
I agree the MWC is much better than CUSA at this point in time, however if anything the college landscape is not a constant place. No one really knows where these schools or conferences will become. Last year by most measures the AAC was below the MWC, this year the AAC appeared to pass them. Houston, Memphis and Temple all had good years and the trajectory of the conference changed. Boise had a less than stellar year and MWC stumbled. We never can predict who and who will not perform, Marshall or MTSU could emerge next year and CUSA could become the favored child, we never know. There is no plan in all of this and AAC could be raided by the B12 or they could raid MWC. We could jump and find ourselves playing in a conference minus Boise, CSU or Air Force which changes the picture a bit, to me anyway. If the AAC invited UTEP all things considered that would be my preference
See, it's stuff like that kind of media writing that does not do justice to anyone. Especially the MWC op ed writers for those respective teams. They push the MWC rather well and give it all the pub it can, they have for years. Fresno is one of the best. But that is where the problem lies.....they're out west! Obviously they want UTEP for basketball, Floyd would be buying a round of drinks on the house if UTEP relocated.
But if this were to happen, when all the back slapping is done, atta boy's are said and all the beer swilled by those parties involved, UTEP still needs to look at the books, look at history, look at real fan participation, and look at the MWC committee board in the face as say "Are you really behind us, or will you all F us again like you did years ago (when we all thought we were family)?" And will UTEP get dead serious about fielding a consistent competitive football program or will it just be "hey we went to the NM Bowl...be happy!" that has been told to fans all this year? Will Floyd teach his players to play like warriors when post season chips are on the table? Will Stull get serious about marketing or leave it up to the head coach's of the revenue generating sports to go out to drinking establishments where there is the Kugler or Floyd Radio show to shake hands to reach that "casual" fan and call it good? I'll come out and say it, I don't think Stull really does care, he's been here to long and appears to have lost perspective. He's says it in his radio interviews; "The boosters feel the same way I do.....". Really Stull? Then keep your budget set at 23,000 for football and 6,000 to 7,000 for basketball and see how that works out. With that, conference relocation should be considered with Natalicio's office only. In other words, "Bob, get out! I'm doing ALL the decision making." if an invitation was offered.
We wont be added for our basketball program. If we get an invite it will be because of geography and potential of our football program
It totally is for basketball conferences like the big east. However, its irrelevant when talking about fbs conference expansion. Football is where the power and money is and is the only sport that matters in realignment.
MWC has a lot they need to clean up first.
One they need to rework the revenue distribution. Unless something's changed, Boise St gets the lions share of the MWC money. Nevada has been ticked about that. They need to resolve that issue before they extend any invites.
Two. Hawaii. The Warriors went on tour this season playing against schools in their non conference schedule for pay days because their program needed the revenue. That's part MWCs fault and the other is Hawaii mismanaging their program development and marketing. They've corrected part of it by tossing the dead fish personality in Norm Chow. But the damage is already done. Hawaii will either invest or move down in conference to CUSA. That, in and of itself doesn't make sense because now their (and everyone else's costs) increase with the likes of FIU, FAU, Charlotte, etc. The AAC may be an option, but that's only if Houston jumps ship. But the same problem exists. Costs.
Three. The MWC has twelve teams supposedly splitting the revenue they generate. I doubt any of the school presidents are going to want their cut - cut again with two new schools. The only way they sign off on that is via a reworked broadcasting contract. With only two teams out of 12 posting less than five loses, my guess is there won't be a rush by the networks to fork over more money.
If I were the MWC, I'd look at Houston first, followed by UTEP (Sun Bowl), followed by Rice. I think we've already established BYU isn't about to give up their independent status.
Yes, UTEP makes sense for the MWC, both on location and access to the Sun Bowl. But it's a long shot, for now.
One they need to rework the revenue distribution. Unless something's changed, Boise St gets the lions share of the MWC money. Nevada has been ticked about that. They need to resolve that issue before they extend any invites.
Two. Hawaii. The Warriors went on tour this season playing against schools in their non conference schedule for pay days because their program needed the revenue. That's part MWCs fault and the other is Hawaii mismanaging their program development and marketing. They've corrected part of it by tossing the dead fish personality in Norm Chow. But the damage is already done. Hawaii will either invest or move down in conference to CUSA. That, in and of itself doesn't make sense because now their (and everyone else's costs) increase with the likes of FIU, FAU, Charlotte, etc. The AAC may be an option, but that's only if Houston jumps ship. But the same problem exists. Costs.
Three. The MWC has twelve teams supposedly splitting the revenue they generate. I doubt any of the school presidents are going to want their cut - cut again with two new schools. The only way they sign off on that is via a reworked broadcasting contract. With only two teams out of 12 posting less than five loses, my guess is there won't be a rush by the networks to fork over more money.
If I were the MWC, I'd look at Houston first, followed by UTEP (Sun Bowl), followed by Rice. I think we've already established BYU isn't about to give up their independent status.
Yes, UTEP makes sense for the MWC, both on location and access to the Sun Bowl. But it's a long shot, for now.
I think the MWC knows UH would not be interested in the slightest bit. At best that would be a lateral move, but in reality it would be a step back. The AAC is rolling and has members that are willing to take the means necessary to keep it going. However, with that said, Chancellor and President, Renu Khator, has one thing on her mind and that is to get Houston into a P5 conference. She is willing to spend the money and take risks to make that happen. Although she is a hard core academic, she knows that successful athletics is the portal to national prominence as an institution. No way would the university even consider the MWC at this point in time. Maybe UH would reconsider if they miss the ship, but not at this time. I think UTEP is the MW's best bet.
No school east of the Miss gets love from the East coast media. Hard to see anyone else when they've got their heads face down in the lap of the SEC.
Oh, I agree with you. I was saying if I was the MWC commish, I'd lobby for UH. My statement wasn't from UH's perspective. If they leap anywhere it would probably be into the Big 12. But the B12 is going to need another school to jump as well. If they raided the AAC, my first hunch is Cincinnati. Memphis would be nice, but their coach just left, so that puts them in hold box.
Being blunt, I think the MWC lost their way riding off the back of Boise. But that's just me.
The AAC has been trying to poach Boise and Air Force for some time. If they do the MWC is in alot of trouble. I think its inevitable AAC loses Memphis and Cincy, but Air Force, Boise and Army would more than makeup for the loss.
Boise St already said no to a stronger form of the AAC why would they leave to join a weaker version? (Assuming UH, Cincy or Memphis gets picked up by the Big 12)
Air Force has made it very clear they are comfortable in the MWC. There are reports that confirm Air Force said no to joining the Big 12. So I highly doubt they leave for the AAC.
Air Force has made it very clear they are comfortable in the MWC. There are reports that confirm Air Force said no to joining the Big 12. So I highly doubt they leave for the AAC.
Air Force would find an AAC with the other two service academies very hard to pass up
Boise is alot like BYU. They have an inflated ego and a national brand. They almost left a few years ago. It would not shock me in the least to see them leave. I think they feel the visability of the AAC will help their program. I dont think its likely but its definitely possible. They could definitely use TCU as a roadmap for how to moveup.
The main issue with Boise is their academic standing. Not sure which P5 would extend an invitation to a university that is perceived to be an academic liability due to their open door policy. If an athlete can't get into Utah, UW, WSU, Oregon, etc, there is always Boise St.
