Would UTEP ask the city/ county of El Paso to do this...

[Minerinciter]

SAN ANTONIO – The University of Texas at San Antonio is asking the city to include $25 million for athletics facilities in its 2017 bond package, which city taxpayers will decide whether to fund.

http://news4sanantonio.com/news/loc...-25-million-to-build-new-athletics-facilities

 

[UTEP05]

I could hear all the naysayers now just like for the Chihuahuas.

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

The Sun Bowl stadium was built that way but the Sun Bowl game itself was the main reason behind it. UTEP certainly wanted it too but it was built by county bond issues and owned by the county until UTEP claimed it.

A bond issue plan was floated in 2012 but I don't know if that was ever approved. It would have included major renovations for the Sun Bowl.

http://www.elpasoinc.com/news/local_news/article_22398fb2-9242-11e1-b6fb-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[EP Maximus]

Bad timing. It wouldn't fly right now.

 

[utep2step]

SAN ANTONIO – The University of Texas at San Antonio is asking the city to include $25 million for athletics facilities in its 2017 bond package, which city taxpayers will decide whether to fund.

http://news4sanantonio.com/news/loc...-25-million-to-build-new-athletics-facilities

I am all for cities always trying to find new ways to bring in public revenue. Hell, state highway patrols and municipal policing entities raised ticket fines big time for revenue after the 08-09 financial crisis to offset loss of property tax revenues due to massive foreclosures that lowered residential ad valorem values to fund their coffers and keep some type of cash on hand. Build it and they will come is the special of the day for (municipal) governments to attract income. Like some said, it was done here in El Paso.

However, the fiscal conservatives have an ace that they can play; 1)The Alamodome. UTSA has a great facility to play football and can be used for large soccer events like the Sun Bowl in El Paso, and it was built originally to attract a NFL franchise. Look how that turned out?! The Alamodome is just now a bowl game that barely keeps one step ahead of the Sun Bowl in El Paso. As a tax paying conservative I would say "no". Why in the hell should tax payers foot the bill for UTSA facilities based on a promise of a future benefit who also claim that the new facilities will attract all this national and international events? It doesn't pass the sniff test!

2) "Tier 1". Ahhhhhhhh! the Tier 1 label that will create a golden brick road...... for who? Another political dog whistle call because UTSA has illusions of grandeur that this will make them attractive to P5 conferences in the future when realignment comes calling. "When"? A smart tax paying fiscal conservative nay sayer could have a field day with this. UTEP has everything in place for Tier 1 status but the legislature will not give the official designation. If they do this to UTEP, why should tax payers foot the bill for something the state uses as a political football? BS I say! San Antonio needs more infrastructure, not new coaches offices and locker rooms right now.

3) Hard numbers. Once again a fiscal conservative can say, look at UTEP. They lead or are at the top of CUSA in attendance figures for both major revenue sports and how has that helped El Paso? Not much. They got a big booster and business's to make the Sun Bowl more attractive and added a huge weight room with offices 13 years ago, why can't UTSA do what UTEP did without joe taxpayer having to pay for it? Once again, "See UTEP". UTSA basketball only attracts a couple thousand for a game, why should we pay for it? Win some games!!

 

[Minerforlife]

UTEP's athletics upgrades were taken off the 2012 bond because its illegal in Texas to use local bond money on state property.

UTSA must have a found a loop hole.
Or they want up grades to the dome in addition to the 90 million already under way to keep the final four coming to San Antonio. Maybe they want a connected practice facility to the dome. Would be legal since the city not UTSA owns the dome. UTSA would just have to lease it from the city. They are are currently locked into the dome through 2035.

 

[utep2step]

UTEP's athletics upgrades were taken off the 2012 bond because its illegal in Texas to use local bond money on state property.

UTSA must have a found a loop hole.
Or they want up grades to the dome in addition to the 90 million already under way to keep the final four coming to San Antonio. Maybe they want a connected practice facility to the dome. Would be legal since the city not UTSA owns the dome. UTSA would just have to lease it from the city. They are are currently locked into the dome through 2035.

A fiscal taxpaying hawk or group can shoot down UTSA proposals. Second, UTSA clearly has a "What ever UTEP does, we need to do it" blue print. More power to them, but they have don't have political leverage. The political environment is divisive and they have no more pull with the state legislature or board than UTEP or others in the UT system have. UTEP took one step at a time over a thirty year period for these improvement. UTSA wants it all....now! It's like selling a house, if the house is only worth $125,000 and you price it at $180,000, you just shot yourself in the foot! Don't exhaust your constituency with a we want it all proposal.

 

[Minerforlife]

A fiscal taxpaying hawk or group can shoot down UTSA proposals. Second, UTSA clearly has a "What ever UTEP does, we need to do it" blue print. More power to them, but they have don't have political leverage. The political environment is divisive and they have no more pull with the state legislature or board than UTEP or others in the UT system have. UTEP took one step at a time over a thirty year period for these improvement. UTSA wants it all....now! It's like selling a house, if the house is only worth $125,000 and you price it at $180,000, you just shot yourself in the foot! Don't exhaust your constituency with a we want it all proposal.

They have ambition, I cant fault that. They also have tremendous political pull in San Antonio. They wouldnt have football without the support of the city. The current secretary of hud former mayor julian castro championed and pushed for UTSA football. Your post is part of UTEP's problem. All these schools know what it takes to be successful in ahletics and take the steps necessary to do it. Thats why UTEP was left behind in the last round of realignment. San Antonio is a can do city. They invest in the future and buisness. The city of El Paso has a losers mentality and it hurts buisness as well as UTEP. UTSA isnt going to put on the brakes on because we cant get our S*** together, nor should they.

When they announce the renovations of the Sun Bowl, people will feel alot better maybe not about the team, but about the future of the program.

 

[homeskillet75]

They have ambition, I cant fault that. They also have tremendous political pull in San Antonio. They wouldnt have football without the support of the city. The current secretary of hud former mayor julian castro championed and pushed for UTSA football. Your post is part of UTEP's problem. All these schools know what it takes to be successful in ahletics and take the steps necessary to do it. Thats why UTEP was left behind in the last round of realignment. San Antonio is a can do city. They invest in the future and buisness. The city of El Paso has a losers mentality and it hurts buisness as well as UTEP. UTSA isnt going to put on the brakes on because we cant get our S*** together, nor should they.

When they announce the renovations of the Sun Bowl, people will feel alot better maybe not about the team, but about the future of the program.

Yup, I agree with this whole heatedly. I live in Austin, but commute to San Antonio. You can see support for UTSA all the way to Kyle (pretty ballzy to put an ad on an electric billboard for UTSA 5 miles out of Texas State territory. You go to a business in San Antonio and you see UTSA and Spurs memorabilia on the walls. It's the city's University and they own it. They are always looking for ways to take it to the next level.

There were times when I went to UTEP in the 90's that it felt like the school was a red headed step child. You would see no UTEP stuff anywhere except for a few businesses around the University. Nobody cared about the atmosphere or the sports. It was just a place you went to get your degree. It was common for El Paso'ans to crack jokes about the school. The attitude was always, at least we are better than NMSU. News coverage was minimal, unless there was some sort of scandal. You maybe saw one or two billboards in the city promoting anything about UTEP.

The problem doesn't just extend to the school either. When I was getting close to graduating with a computer science degree, I found out from a professor that Intel was thinking about building a site in the city. But the plan got shelved when Intel asked for tax breaks to put the campus in the city (a typical practice done by cities to bring in attractive employers) and the city counsel balked. They were short sighted and only looked at the immediate revenue loss rather than the revenue gained from having high paying jobs and increased tax revenue from people purchasing housing who work in those high paying jobs.

 

[Vegasminer]

Minerforlife, I too agree with everything you wrote (and skillet confirmed) and my feeling is that being fiscally conservative has morphed into "Not in my neighborhood". I am thinking that UTSA will eventually join the ranks of P5 schools and leave us poor bastards in the dust.

 

[utep2step]

They have ambition, I cant fault that. They also have tremendous political pull in San Antonio. They wouldnt have football without the support of the city. The current secretary of hud former mayor julian castro championed and pushed for UTSA football. Your post is part of UTEP's problem. All these schools know what it takes to be successful in ahletics and take the steps necessary to do it. Thats why UTEP was left behind in the last round of realignment. San Antonio is a can do city. They invest in the future and buisness. The city of El Paso has a losers mentality and it hurts buisness as well as UTEP. UTSA isnt going to put on the brakes on because we cant get our S*** together, nor should they.

When they announce the renovations of the Sun Bowl, people will feel alot better maybe not about the team, but about the future of the program.

I was just playing devils advocate from a fiscal hawk pov, but more power to them. Hey, go for it!

But, ummmm, just wondering, how is it UTEP's problem? Have you chronicled the history of UTEP prior to Natalicio's arrival? What she has done is short of miracle in some regards. Everyone loves her now but there wasn't much love for her in the late 80's and early 90's. The hate was constant and came from within the university most times. Now, please educate me on UTSA's and the former mayor's ambition as compared to our current UTEP president and city.

El Paso's history of politics and business interests inability to form a common goal and union has hurt the city, but as one can plainly see, it appears to be a thing of the past. Texas Monthly did a great article on El Paso just about this very topic of El Paso's failure to capitalize on opportunity that moved on to other southwest communities like San Antonio. El Paso was supposed to be the Texas city on the rise during post WWII and Korea, but couldn't hold on to the opportunity, sadly. Anyways, it appears that seems to be the past and commercial and residential development are moving at a steady pace (but don't compare it to Dallas or Houston/Galveston).

Loser mentality? That exist is every city, big or small. No city is going to the brakes on for another city. Never read or heard that happening. Cities, like Las Cruces for example, may invest heavily in certain industries like LC did for the Space Port which have huge impacts for a given region (but nothing material as of yet), but do you think Las Cruces waits for El Paso or vice versa? No, not in the grand scheme of things. Now if you go 200 to 250 miles outside of El Paso to southern NM or west Texas and survey the towns and local industries, you quickly realize how dependent they are on El Paso. Tourism, commercial, medical, etc.

 

[UTEP05]

The city of El Paso has a losers mentality and it hurts buisness as well as UTEP.

Couldn't agree more with that, but I think finally (at least I hope) El Paso is starting to get out of that mindset. Remember back in 2012/2013 all the naysayers were saying nobody was going to show up for the Chihuahuas games and it will be a failure. Now fast forward to 2016 and it turned out to be a complete success. El Paso is improving, just not as fast as other cities and I think the ballpark showed that people will come if things are built.

 

[unihorn]

I was just playing devils advocate from a fiscal hawk pov, but more power to them. Hey, go for it!

But, ummmm, just wondering, how is it UTEP's problem? Have you chronicled the history of UTEP prior to Natalicio's arrival? What she has done is short of miracle in some regards. Everyone loves her now but there wasn't much love for her in the late 80's and early 90's. The hate was constant and came from within the university most times. Now, please educate me on UTSA's and the former mayor's ambition as compared to our current UTEP president and city.

El Paso's history of politics and business interests inability to form a common goal and union has hurt the city, but as one can plainly see, it appears to be a thing of the past. Texas Monthly did a great article on El Paso just about this very topic of El Paso's failure to capitalize on opportunity that moved on to other southwest communities like San Antonio. El Paso was supposed to be the Texas city on the rise during post WWII and Korea, but couldn't hold on to the opportunity, sadly. Anyways, it appears that seems to be the past and commercial and residential development are moving at a steady pace (but don't compare it to Dallas or Houston/Galveston).

Loser mentality? That exist is every city, big or small. No city is going to the brakes on for another city. Never read or heard that happening. Cities, like Las Cruces for example, may invest heavily in certain industries like LC did for the Space Port which have huge impacts for a given region (but nothing material as of yet), but do you think Las Cruces waits for El Paso or vice versa? No, not in the grand scheme of things. Now if you go 200 to 250 miles outside of El Paso to southern NM or west Texas and survey the towns and local industries, you quickly realize how dependent they are on El Paso. Tourism, commercial, medical, etc.

Actually, El Paso was "on the rise" in the early 1900s. It looked like it might become THE epicenter of the Southwest. It wasn't San Antonio that eclipsed it, but Phoenix.

 

[UTEP05]

Actually, El Paso was "on the rise" in the early 1900s. It looked like it might become THE epicenter of the Southwest. It wasn't San Antonio that eclipsed it, but Phoenix.

You're right. El Paso was offered the Riverwalk, Cowboys permanent training camp, and even the Padres spring training site and they were all turned down by city council. Imagine if all of those things came to fruition?

 

[EP Maximus]

You're right. El Paso was offered the Riverwalk, Cowboys permanent training camp, and even the Padres spring training site and they were all turned down by city council. Imagine if all of those things came to fruition?

Spring training is either in Arizona or Florida, Bob. The Padres were never interested in moving their spring training to El Paso. Get your head out of your ass, El Paso Chihuahua.

 

[UTEP05]

Spring training is either in Arizona or Florida, Bob. The Padres were never interested in moving their spring training to El Paso. Get your head out of your ass, El Paso Chihuahua.

Actually the Padres were interested in all the land by Cohen Stadium in the early 90's.

 

[Minerinciter]

 

[EP Maximus]

Actually the Padres were interested in all the land by Cohen Stadium in the early 90's.

Wrong.

 

[UTEP05]

Wrong.

Ok Mr. Trump.

 

[utep2step]

Actually, El Paso was "on the rise" in the early 1900s. It looked like it might become THE epicenter of the Southwest. It wasn't San Antonio that eclipsed it, but Phoenix.

You are 100% correct, it was Phoenix. No loser mentality EP back then, that's for sure.

This is just a three sister region of the world, IMO. El Paso/Fort Bliss/Ciudad Juarez. We fight with each other, complain about each other, sneer at each other but when the sun comes up in the morning, we realize we all need each other. For example, when I was at UTEP, my professors told one of my classes that politicians and professionals from international border cities from around the world would come here to learn how El Paso and Ciudad Juarez co-exists peacefully with each other.