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Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Jason Rabedeaux, a hot shot assistant coach at Oklahoma, seemed like a good hire a the time. Tim Floyd seemed line a great hire at the time. Rodney Terry and Joe Golding, both successful coaches at other schools, seemed like the right hires at the time. Rabedeaux and Floyd left with their teams a mess and never made the NCAA Tournament. Despite having great talent Terry never had a winning record, and the jury is still out on Golding, though most here aren't as high on his stock as you are. Hindsight gives us the chance to recognize that decisions that seemed right at the time weren't actually the best decisions. Floyd and the others are examples of this. Floyd certainly was not the right hire.
So all things considered at the time, you would not have hired Tim Floyd? Cmon

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

This is why UTEP can’t have nice things. People still defending a guy who made more than Barbee, Sadler, and Gillispie, but of course produced less. The guy quit in the middle of the season, literally wasting a season of everyone’s time.
I think he’d had enough. Between Hamilton pulling a late switch a roo as well as lack of fan support

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

He was the right hire. He wanted to be back here. He was a great assistant here and recruiter. Marcus Fizer mentioned that Floyd always talked about UTEP and his desire to return. He was the most accomplished coach we could possibly land and said yes. The results didn’t play out but at the time he was 100% the person we needed to hire. Also the way he handled Hamilton backing out of his commitment was perfect. He stood up for and defended UTEP
This is why UTEP can’t have nice things. People still defending a guy who made more than Barbee, Sadler, and Gillispie, but of course produced less. The guy quit in the middle of the season, literally wasting a season of everyone’s time.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

He was the right hire. He wanted to be back here. He was a great assistant here and recruiter. Marcus Fizer mentioned that Floyd always talked about UTEP and his desire to return. He was the most accomplished coach we could possibly land and said yes. The results didn’t play out but at the time he was 100% the person we needed to hire. Also the way he handled Hamilton backing out of his commitment was perfect. He stood up for and defended UTEP
Jason Rabedeaux, a hot shot assistant coach at Oklahoma, seemed like a good hire a the time. Tim Floyd seemed line a great hire at the time. Rodney Terry and Joe Golding, both successful coaches at other schools, seemed like the right hires at the time. Rabedeaux and Floyd left with their teams a mess and never made the NCAA Tournament. Despite having great talent Terry never had a winning record, and the jury is still out on Golding, though most here aren't as high on his stock as you are. Hindsight gives us the chance to recognize that decisions that seemed right at the time weren't actually the best decisions. Floyd and the others are examples of this. Floyd certainly was not the right hire.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

You can say that now? At the time i absolutely thought that he was the right hire, and expected a return to the NCAA Tournament. But the only time he came close to making the NCAA Tournament he did it with Barbee's players. His best conference finish was tied for 2nd (twice), otherwise his teams finished 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th, and he was 1-5 when he stepped down his final season. He never won a game in his two NIT appearances and one CBI appearance. His outbursts against Enfield and Kaplowitz were embarrassing. He tossed aside the players he recruited like pairs of unwashed socks, then whined when the ones he wanted to keep transferred of their own volition. He was more successful than Terry and Golding, but significantly less successful than Gillispie, Sadler, and Barbee. What I at first believed to be a home run hire end up being a strikeout.
He was the right hire. He wanted to be back here. He was a great assistant here and recruiter. Marcus Fizer mentioned that Floyd always talked about UTEP and his desire to return. He was the most accomplished coach we could possibly land and said yes. The results didn’t play out but at the time he was 100% the person we needed to hire. Also the way he handled Hamilton backing out of his commitment was perfect. He stood up for and defended UTEP

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Nolan Richardsons jersey is retired. Would you say he met that criteria as a player?
Statistically it's hard to make the argument for his jersey to be retired. I never saw Richardson play, but will say that he certainly benefitted from his post UTEP success, in his case as a coach. He averaged 21 ppg his first season, but, at the insistence of Haskins, became more of a defensive stopper than a scorer his final two seasons. I don't know if there is anyone left on this board who actually saw him play and could whether or not he deserved to have his jersey retired based solely on his on court performance.
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Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

He was the right hire
You can say that now? At the time i absolutely thought that he was the right hire, and expected a return to the NCAA Tournament. But the only time he came close to making the NCAA Tournament he did it with Barbee's players. His best conference finish was tied for 2nd (twice), otherwise his teams finished 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 8th, and he was 1-5 when he stepped down his final season. He never won a game in his two NIT appearances and one CBI appearance. His outbursts against Enfield and Kaplowitz were embarrassing. He tossed aside the players he recruited like pairs of unwashed socks, then whined when the ones he wanted to keep transferred of their own volition. He was more successful than Terry and Golding, but significantly less successful than Gillispie, Sadler, and Barbee. What I at first believed to be a home run hire end up being a strikeout.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

I agree, to an extent. I think that Jim Barnes is the most dominant player in Miner history, and certainly deserves to have his number retired. The fact that Archibald, Hardaway, and Davis had better NBA careers is irrelevant to the fact that he had a better collegiate career. However, I do believe Archibald's and Hardaway's NBA careers add credence to the fact that they were each the best players at their positions for their class, strengthening their already strong case for retiring their UTEP jerseys. Davis had a strong, but not spectacular, UTEP career. Had DJ become a multi-time NBA All Star I guarantee you that there would be a strong push to retire his jersey.
Nolan Richardsons jersey is retired. Would you say he met that criteria as a player?

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

I don’t think having a notable post college career has any bearing on a players college career. DJ played at UTEP, what he did before or after UTEP, is irrelevant. Why isn’t Antonio Davis’ number retired? He played in the NBA for 13 seasons.

This goes for any player at any school.
I agree, to an extent. I think that Jim Barnes is the most dominant player in Miner history, and certainly deserves to have his number retired. The fact that Archibald, Hardaway, and Davis had better NBA careers is irrelevant to the fact that he had a better collegiate career. However, I do believe Archibald's and Hardaway's NBA careers add credence to the fact that they were each the best players at their positions for their class, strengthening their already strong case for retiring their UTEP jerseys. Davis had a strong, but not spectacular, UTEP career. Had DJ become a multi-time NBA All Star I guarantee you that there would be a strong push to retire his jersey.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Unfortunately for him, I think it had to do with timing. UTEP had that run into the sweet 16 the year before he got there and never made the tournament while he played. Expectations were still high at the time. He was another really good scorer.
Yeah. They did make the NIT when it meant something. Unfortunately he was not drafted. Ironically, George Banks was drafted that year

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Antoine Gillespie has to be the most overlooked player in UTEP history. He broke Tim Hardaways alltime scoring record. He was a machine and he’s never spoken of
Yeah, you're right. He was amazing to see play. He should get more love from UTEP than he does. Timing not withstanding, he represented the Miners well and still does, coaching and teaching in Sweden. Seems like a standup person.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Antoine Gillespie has to be the most overlooked player in UTEP history. He broke Tim Hardaways alltime scoring record. He was a machine and he’s never spoken of.
Unfortunately for him, I think it had to do with timing. UTEP had that run into the sweet 16 the year before he got there and never made the tournament while he played. Expectations were still high at the time. He was another really good scorer.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

Not really. We could have hired Billy Gillispie. We could have hired some other assistant coach. We could have hired the 2010 version of RT or JG.

Instead we hired Tim Floyd. He promised big things and complained about a league he couldn’t even win. UTEP wanted a coach who wouldn’t leave for bigger things and we ended up with a coach who quit on the program and relegated it to trash.
He was the right hire

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

I can see this being true for all players before 2012 or 13. But If we apply those same metrics to any players since or going forward, we won't every retire another number because most great players are going to chase the money. They won't stay for more than a couple of years.
Yeah I mentioned that earlier. I would be okay with a 1 year player getting a retired number, but they would have to be a very significant player. Conference POY, along with national accolades, and a NCAA tournament run at a minimum.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

I don’t think having a notable post college career has any bearing on a players college career. DJ played at UTEP, what he did before or after UTEP, is irrelevant. Why isn’t Antonio Davis’ number retired? He played in the NBA for 13 seasons.

This goes for any player at any school.
I can see this being true for all players before 2012 or 13. But If we apply those same metrics to any players since or going forward, we won't every retire another number because most great players are going to chase the money. They won't stay for more than a couple of years.

Kaplowitz: Which Jersey Should UTEP Retire Next?

This reminds me of a quote from Charles Barkley back when he was playing: "All you ever hear is that Magic and Bird are the only ones who make their teammates better. My thing is, who is it easier to make better—James Worthy, Kevin McHale, or Jayson Williams."

In large part I agree with Barkley. It's easy to claim that someone makes their teammates better when they have great teammates. Also, it is my opinion that it isn't the job of every great player to make their teammates "better." Let's look at the two guys on the Celtics/Lakers that Barkley mentioned. McHale is a Hall of Famer, was instrumental in three of Boston's championships, and Barkley rated him as the best PF he played against. When have you heard anyone say that McHale made his teammates better? Yet he certainly made his team better. Similarly with Worthy, he is a Hall of Famer, was a huge piece of the Showtime Lakers, and helped them win three championships. He also was never credited with making his teammates better, yet he also significantly made his team better.

The only players that typically receive credit for making their teammates better are playmakers. Magic was a PG. Bird was a playmaking forward. In today's NBA, Jokic is a play making center. They certainly made/make their teammates better. Personally, however, I believe that Hakeem Olajuwon was a better player than Jokic is, and would have dominated him in his prime. Hakeem wasn't really a playmaker, but he certainly made his team better.

Let's get back to DJ. He certainly didn't make Victor Ramalho or Tavaris Watts better; there really wasn't anything to work with there. Yes, he did have Stone and Culpepper, as freshmen and sophomores, and Moultrie as freshman. I would argue that playmaking, however, wasn't his role. He was a scorer, and a damn good one. He was tremendous from mid-range, had excellent shot selection, and like OT had a knack for getting to the line and converting. His teams either lacked talent or had really young talent, but he was instrumental in winning a number of games for the Miners. He certainly made his teams significantly better.

Two final notes:
  1. I know that this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but while I loved Randy Culpepper, I think that DJ was the better player. Everyone, including me, loved Randy's spectacular dunks and the way he could light it up from 3 when he got hot. But he didn't have DJ's shot selection, and was wildly inconsistent. Culpepper might have been more likely than Jackson to go for 35 on any given night, but he was also more likely to go for only 6. With Stefon you knew that you were going to get 20+ points every single night.
  2. Despite all of the above, I don't think that DJ's number should be retired. He should certainly be honored, but, as far as I know, DJ was the UTEP great whose teams accomplished the least. No NCAA appearances, one NIT as a freshman, and two CBIs. Not his fault, his teammates lacked either talent or experience, but still, he didn't have the overall impact of a Hardaway, Hill, or Archibald. That, and he didn't have a notable post college career.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Play making wasn't a role DJ fulfilled. He scored. And as I stated from the beginning, he had a knack for scoring. However, there is room for both, and that can be what sets someone apart as making teammates better. Especially when so much attention goes to one specific player.

I don't think it's anyone's "job" to make other players better. It's not a task someone can "take" on. With some players it just is. It can't be forced and it's not a "role". It's part of the package.

We are talking opinions here and we each develop those opinions based upon what we see or don't see. That is just mine. All good if people don't agree.
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