Kugler football is painful to watch

[LaserCoog]

Nobody - NOBODY - disputes the fact that the results were not there at UTEP under Price or that he stayed probably two seasons too long. Stull was too busy capitalizing on Price's national name, integrity, and reputation to do the right thing at the right time. And nobody disputes that there were problems with the program under Price, that is precisely the reason you bring somebody else in - to improve the situation, not make excuses and constantly tell everybody how bad things were before you showed up. Since the beginning of his tenure, it is equally indisputable that Kugler - often aided and abetted by the EP Times - has taken subtle and not so subtle pot shots at Mike Price, his program, and his players. Still is. Think about that for a moment. A guy who has never been as much as a coordinator at ANY level, much less a head coach, cracking on a former National COY with 177 wins in 31 years as a head coach at the collegiate level. Some people I've talked to see that as way less than classy and another sign that Kugler has been over his head from jump start. They also understand the concept of karma.

Timetable? Who knows, Kugler's ONLY "qualifications" as a collegiate HC were he attended UTEP and played for the AD. And as you've seen thus far, that won't buy you much on the recruiting trails these days.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

I wonder if he will resign after this year if UTEP does worse than last year.

He did say three years.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Yesterday Kugler seemed like a broken man. That was about the most raw and honest press conference you will ever see. However, I dont think he will quit. He's a posistion coach if he fails here he will never get a head coaching job again. Coog brings up an interesting scenario, Stull stepping down. That would be the nuclear option. Kugler, Floyd and everyone down to secretaries would likely be fired. Drastic but it might be what the department needs.

I'm sure he was majorly disappointed. I overheard a woman Saturday say another player quit. A starter. I was trying to see who wasn't on the field but given everything else, I don't know who. That makes two in-season. That's not a good sign for any coach or any program. Toss in them losing when I'm sure he thought they were prepared was difficult. He needs to first think if he could be doing anything different and then review his staff. Rule is if the OL can't block, you blame the OL coach. If your RBs can't run, you blame the recruiting coordinator. If you can't tackle, block, run, or throw, you blame yourself.

When Stull steps down, everyone is fair game for a pink slip. But whomever they hire better bring a clear plan for improving the program and attracting recruits. There is no reason for UTEP to be in the place they are now.

 

[Minerforlife]

Donovan Walker is the player who quit.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Donovan Walker is the player who quit.

Been checking, the other player was a DB I think. I'm still trying to verify and get his name.

 

[bkelly]

If you were a player and you committed to a program because they promised to make you a better player and better person, you would expect at least a decent nutrition plan to go along with the intense workouts and practices. I have heard over and over about the teams meals the night before games and how unhealthy they are. Apparently their snack before bedtime is a milkshake, icecream sundae and chicken fingers! If you ate that before bed and had to wake up and play any type of physical activity, you would be sluggish too! Also they eat fried catfish and mashed potatoes for the meal prior to this!

The director of football ops should be feeding them lean protein like a chicken breast or salmon filet with brown rice. And for the bedtime snack, make the kids a protein shake and give them some fruit. I find this highly unacceptable and if I was a player I would be furious.

 

[Minerforlife]

I do think we're in a danger zone with the amount of El Paso kids we are offering. I have no problem with offering the top kids in El Paso. However, it now appears we are offering some because they are low hanging fruit. UTEP is the only school offering most of these kids. Real or imagined other schools are using "the el paso bias" against us in the rest of texas . The other schools are telling kids not to come here because the el paso kids get preferential treatment and playing time.

 

[utep2step]

If you were a player and you committed to a program because they promised to make you a better player and better person, you would expect at least a decent nutrition plan to go along with the intense workouts and practices. I have heard over and over about the teams meals the night before games and how unhealthy they are. Apparently their snack before bedtime is a milkshake, icecream sundae and chicken fingers! If you ate that before bed and had to wake up and play any type of physical activity, you would be sluggish too! Also they eat fried catfish and mashed potatoes for the meal prior to this!

The director of football ops should be feeding them lean protein like a chicken breast or salmon filet with brown rice. And for the bedtime snack, make the kids a protein shake and give them some fruit. I find this highly unacceptable and if I was a player I would be furious.

I often wondered what their nutrition program was like? For a high impact, stop, run, stop, run, [repeat over and over] you need serious core strength. I am not totally against that food, but before bed is something I have not heard before? However, these are young men who burn calories like a Ford F350 Diesel barreling down I-10 (yes, I meant that as a backhanded comment). The lean stuff is for your cougar sister in law who is still trying to look like prom queen and trying to impress uncle Rico. Good question for Kap to bring up during the Kugler Hour.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

If you were a player and you committed to a program because they promised to make you a better player and better person, you would expect at least a decent nutrition plan to go along with the intense workouts and practices. I have heard over and over about the teams meals the night before games and how unhealthy they are. Apparently their snack before bedtime is a milkshake, icecream sundae and chicken fingers! If you ate that before bed and had to wake up and play any type of physical activity, you would be sluggish too! Also they eat fried catfish and mashed potatoes for the meal prior to this!

The director of football ops should be feeding them lean protein like a chicken breast or salmon filet with brown rice. And for the bedtime snack, make the kids a protein shake and give them some fruit. I find this highly unacceptable and if I was a player I would be furious.

I hope that's not true. I would be completely dumbfounded if that's the case. But I'm fearing that might be what's happening.

 

[bkelly]

Like I have said in previous posts on here, I am not making my stuff up. I hear it from legit sources.

 

[unihorn]

Don't they eat at Luby's?

 

[bkelly]

Don't they eat at Luby's?

Lubys, Papa Johns, Subway and I forget the last place but that is during the week not the day before the game. The day before the game they stay at a local hotel and the football ops dictate the menu.

 

[jq_miner]

Been checking, the other player was a DB I think. I'm still trying to verify and get his name.

Well, on Minerrush, they posted the current depth chart for the FIU game and Trent Trammel is absent. Looks like he's the guy who may have quit.

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

The team was a mess when Kugler arrived. Price had lost control of the team and the football team was in terrible academic shape. Kugler certainly straightened that out. Whether or not he will work out as a head coach, he will need to prove his worth by the end of next year. I really don't think he is going to quit or be fired after this season.

Nobody denies the football team was a mess when Kugler got here, but there is no point putting the last coach under the bus. Like I said, Kugler might do worse than Price. If Kugler stands by his words, he will resign at the end of the year.

 

[MineroFanatico]

It's amazing that in this day and age there continue to be college football programs who attribute so little importance to nutrition, and it's effects on performance, or lack thereof. For a college level staff to remain entrapped in the dark ages thinking that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie borders on extreme ignorance. Sure these kids can burn calories at rapid pace but what obviously eludes some people is that not all fuel is created equal. If bkelly's claim is true, which I have no reason to doubt given his track record, that is something that if changed would have near immediate positive effects. I have a son who plays major college fb and have seen first hand the stringency and precision with which he is made to eat...and he is on what they call the "maintain" group where he needs to neither lose nor gain weight. I am wowed at where and what this Miner team eats on what sounds like a regular basis. Kugs and company should know better.

 

[jq_miner]

It's amazing that in this day and age there continue to be college football programs who attribute so little importance to nutrition, and it's effects on performance, or lack thereof. For a college level staff to remain entrapped in the dark ages thinking that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie borders on extreme ignorance. Sure these kids can burn calories at rapid pace but what obviously eludes some people is that not all fuel is created equal. If bkelly's claim is true, which I have no reason to doubt given his track record, that is something that if changed would have near immediate positive effects. I have a son who plays major college fb and have seen first hand the stringency and precision with which he is made to eat...and he is on what they call the "maintain" group where he needs to neither lose nor gain weight. I am wowed at where and what this Miner team eats on what sounds like a regular basis. Kugs and company should know better.

I bet his claim is true. I worked at UTEP during Price's tenure and I remember for two a days before school started, they would give players pb&j sammichs between breaks. Not all natural healthy, protein filled peanut butter but Skippy brand on white bread, with chocolate milk. I remember seeing that and thinking....really we cant get this guys something a lil more healthy...lol.

 

[MineroFanatico]

I bet his claim is true. I worked at UTEP during Price's tenure and I remember for two a days before school started, they would give players pb&j sammichs between breaks. Not all natural healthy, protein filled peanut butter but Skippy brand on white bread, with chocolate milk. I remember seeing that and thinking....really we cant get this guys something a lil more healthy...lol.

Lol. I believe it! I'm no purist. I like my junk food like most everybody else. I'm also aware that no one is going to stop a grown ass man-child, hell bent on chowing down on a pizza pie or a burrito supreme covered in layers of nacho cheese or a gallon of Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey, from doing so. It is for that reason that when eating team meals, which is most meals during the season, that they be nutritious and balanced. It is of paramount importance that college athletes, especially fb players who are tearing their bodies up on a daily basis, get the essential micro and macro nutrients for proper recovery. When those requirements are met, then the junk isn't as bad because like someone said earlier, these kids' bodies are like furnaces and will pretty much burn through anything.......and I'm now off my soapbox.

 

[PositivelyPete]

Back at Sul Ross, we didn't get no protein shakes. Had to kill our own meals. These players have it good.

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

we didn't get no

Apparently you didn't get an education either.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Well, on Minerrush, they posted the current depth chart for the FIU game and Trent Trammel is absent. Looks like he's the guy who may have quit.

That's not good. I don't remember if there was one during the spring, but the last thing you want as a coach, no matter how you spin it, is two players quitting during the season. Not just any players, two that I'm pretty sure the staff were looking forward to helping them win games. Something is wrong on that staff. Whether it's playing politics, which sends the team the wrong message, or kids seeing the staff purposefully mistreat another player, none of that is good. The ripple effect is kids talk. The direct effect is on recruiting because talented kids know other talented kids. I posted the other day Kug's needs to do a top down review at the end of the season (if he stays) and given this information, he seriously does.

 

[DAYDEV]

I was a big Coach Price fan but I understand why he was fired. But the part about academics being a problem under him I dont understand. The last year I was associated with UTEP I saw 7-8 players graduate on time. By that I mean 4 years. I had a son at KU and he was the only player in his class to graduate on time. I felt they were better young men under his program also. Now I will say they were pampered under Price and he actually explained to me why he had that approach late in his career. Kugler problem is he's a my way and I dont care what no one else says person. The first year he lost those players it wasn't because he was so tough on the kids it was his approach and disrespect towards the kids and the program. Kugler has got to change his style of coaching or they wont win 2 more games. His recruiting has to change also. Trust your coaches more and he has to recruit to the conference and not the NFL standards. His first year all his WR were El Paso kids willing to be blue shirts. Man how are you going to develop a team that way. He has got away from North Texas recruiting also. Thats crazy NT has the most D1 players. Players from NT actually like El Paso and I know several who have made a home in El Paso. He needs to direct his recruiting more to NT from here on.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

but the last thing you want as a coach, no matter how you spin it, is two players quitting during the season.

That is a very good point. We talk about how Price lost his team being too lenient. It sounds like Kugler is on the verge of having the same thing happen to him. But this time it's because he's trying to rule with an iron fist. I'm not saying he needs to coddle these players by any means, but when you're too nice the inmates run the asylum. And vice versa if you're too hard they're going to mutiny. Tom Coughlin is the prime example of someone who was heavy handed and ultimately realized that he had to chance his personality and coaching style because it was hurting his team.

 

[utep2step]

I do think we're in a danger zone with the amount of El Paso kids we are offering. I have no problem with offering the top kids in El Paso. However, it now appears we are offering some because they are low hanging fruit. UTEP is the only school offering most of these kids. Real or imagined other schools are using "the el paso bias" against us in the rest of texas . The other schools are telling kids not to come here because the el paso kids get preferential treatment and playing time.

Man that is not good at all. Just imagine passing up a potential Thomas Howard (who was from Lubbock) because Kugler went after the high school coaches boy who plays for Franklin. Thomas Howard was an under sized walk-on that became a beast by his junior and senior year. If I remember correctly, he was invited by Gary Nord.

 

[Epsilon00]

Good post DayDev. Most people think Higgins is to blame for the offense , but just like you said Kugler has that "Its my way or no way" style so it is just Higgins doing what he is told. And I have asked myself if recruiting all these kids from EL Paso is it a good thing or a bad thing???? I sure hope he isn't reaching on some of these kids from EP. I liked Price, he was decent and he made UTEP above a Gary Nord, David Lee level caliber UTEP football team, but I'm my opinion , Kugler is slowly bringing us back down to that level. His power run game offense isn't going to attract many high school offensive players here. The NFL doesn't use the power run game offense anymore. You never see a FB out on the field anymore in the NFL. The NFL is evolving into the spread offense.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

That is a very good point. We talk about how Price lost his team being too lenient. It sounds like Kugler is on the verge of having the same thing happen to him. But this time it's because he's trying to rule with an iron fist. I'm not saying he needs to coddle these players by any means, but when you're too nice the inmates run the asylum. And vice versa if you're too hard they're going to mutiny. Tom Coughlin is the prime example of someone who was heavy handed and ultimately realized that he had to chance his personality and coaching style because it was hurting his team.

Agreed on each and every point.

Being a college coach isn't easy. In high school you have kids on the team that play for various reasons. Few that are serious. A few more with limited talent (nothing wrong there) and lot's of goofballs and immaturity. In college, these kids are transitioning to young men. When you recruit them, you have to keep recruiting them after they're on the team. Even more, you're dealing with the transition of their high school dreams meeting reality. That's hard. Because when they leave the program, they're considered men and that's what the NFL gets. Men. It takes unique people to handle this transition. Tough love is nice, but not always the right approach with every single player. You're talking 75-85 different personalities that respond and learn differently than each other. Like you pointed out, even Tom Coughlin had to learn that didn't work and he needed to change. His team responded and he's gotten two superbowls from them cause of it. Maybe this will be the season Kug's learns that same lesson. I've met him (as I'm sure several people on here have). He's a man of strong convictions and beliefs. He cares about the kids on his team and he cares about the school. Now that I've said that, it doesn't mean I give him a pass on his style of coaching or his coaching philosophy. It just means that if he cares as deeply as he does, he's going to have to make some hard decisions. Those are how he coaches, how he interacts with the kids, who he coaches with, and how he handles his players going forward. Not all NFL coaches (all business) make great (fun) college coaches - and vice versa.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Good post DayDev. Most people think Higgins is to blame for the offense , but just like you said Kugler has that "Its my way or no way" style so it is just Higgins doing what he is told. And I have asked myself if recruiting all these kids from EL Paso is it a good thing or a bad thing???? I sure hope he isn't reaching on some of these kids from EP. I liked Price, he was decent and he made UTEP above a Gary Nord, David Lee level caliber UTEP football team, but I'm my opinion , Kugler is slowly bringing us back down to that level. His power run game offense isn't going to attract many high school offensive players here. The NFL doesn't use the power run game offense anymore. You never see a FB out on the field anymore in the NFL. The NFL is evolving into the spread offense.

You make some good points, but ultimately Kug's isn't designing the offensive scheme nor calling plays. A coach can tell his OC, I want a run heavy offense. Ok, that's fine. But that doesn't mean the OC calls the same run plays over and over. It also doesn't mean when the head coach says he wants a balanced offense, you consider your pass game a bunch of checkdowns and dumps to the TE.

An OC has a creative platform to work from. He can use whatever formations he can dream up, with a variety of miss direction, traps, etc., to accomplish the direction of the head coach. Higgins, IMO, is a one trick pony. He's a driver that stays in the left lane on the highway going 35 in a 75 mph zone. He's not imaginative nor creative. UTEP runs largely the same formations and the same plays. I overheard one person at a game last year say, "we've got eight plays, out of two formations and seven that are runs."

 

[El Paso Chihuahuas]

. Now I will say they were pampered under Price and he actually explained to me why he had that approach late in his career.

What were the reason Price gave you?