American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment
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Who knew all it took was a 7-5 record during a werird covid year to be in the discussion. Kind of pathetic that we couldn't even do that.
Probably wouldn't matter what UTEP's record or UTSA's records were for one season. UTSA has not demonstrated that they have a strong fan base but ours has gotten small too. UTSA has not built a decent basketball arena but that apparently doesn't matter. It's our terrible football history that is killing our chances. Add to that the recruiting plus market plus money available in the San Antonio area or near UNT or Rice and we are at a disadvantage.
Worst case for us is that UTSA is chosen by the AAC and the MWC replaces AFA and CSU with UNT and Rice.
Best case for us is either of those plus UTEP due to old ties with UNM, Wyoming, etc. If basketball is a deciding factor then we have a chance. Be a little helpful if we start winning in football too. Or if the MWC loses a 3rd school then our chances increase.
If the MWC loses a 3rd school, wouldn’t most people take LaTech over UTEP? If you’re already going out to Houston, whats a few more hours East?
How far is too far I don't know. Realistic competition for a 3rd or 4th spot in the MWC could be NMSU (proximity and good mbb), Texas St (market and recruiting), Rice, UNT, maybe La Tech and Louisiana and possibly Ark St but I think those last 3 are a bit far out in the weeds. If the MWC decision is not made until after basketball season and IF UTEP shows a decent turnaround in football and mbb, we are a possibility. Certainly no guarantees.
It's not at all clear to me what the remnants of the AAC really has to offer anyone? Isn't the TV contract subject to renogotiation now that all the really good football teams are gone?
Basketball will make no difference. That's where UTEP has been so misguided. Instead of fully funding football we've payed Basketball coaches more than football coaches. We built a Basketball practice facility before building and indoor football facility. This is where we are. Now all the programs are going to suffer.
If it's true that AAC is looking at Air Force and CSU, then they really want Air Force. BAD! They have since the last round of realignment. CSU brings nothing to the table. They want to join Air Force and Navy and possibly Army in the future. A bold and legitimate strategy to get all the US service academies under one roof. It is the American conference btw.
Make no mistake, ESPN is involved with those negotiations. If that happens, no way MWC takes Tulsa, SMU or any other AAC member. Been there, done that. So Thompson is just blowing smoke, believe it.
Make no mistake, ESPN is involved with those negotiations. If that happens, no way MWC takes Tulsa, SMU or any other AAC member. Been there, done that. So Thompson is just blowing smoke, believe it.
The Athletic wrote an Article on G5 conference expansion. I'll kinda summerize their thoughts.
- Presidents decided if they want to change conferences, not AD's.
- Presidents want new members to have 3 things in place. A budget of $40-$60 million. New Facilities. And Coaches to be paid over a Million dollars.
- If a team has a smaller overall budget, new facilites, and a winning program, a school can overlook the financial committment.
- Example, East Carolina has a $50 million dollar budget, but lacks facilities and success.
Schools Mentioned
Appalachian State and Lousiana. Good options because of success, but only $30 million dollar budget and coaches not paid a million. However, new facilities.
UAB. Checks alot of boxes. New Stadium, on field success, pays Bill Clark 1.5 Million, but budget is $30 million.
Liberty. Big budget. Great Facilities. Winning Program. Article said that Liberty offered CUSA tens of millions to join. But Political Views of the University have scared off Liberal Presidents.
James Madison. Budget in the mid 50's. New Facilities. 2016 FCS champions. Good Candidate for invitations.
Marshall. Budget in the low 30's, but attendance is good and they have a solid history.
Charlotte. This would be a "future play." Charlotte is not where it needs to be to be attractive. But the large market and potential for growth makes them appealing. Budget is in the high 30's.
Georgia State. Same as Charlotte with Atlanta being a large market. Pay their football Coach 750k.
UTSA. Growing Urban Area. Budget in the 30's and has opened at $41 million athletic facility and is building a Pavillion to cover Football Practice Field.
Old Dominion. Largest CUSA budget and just rebuilt the Football Stadium. Downside is little football success with a young program.
Southern Miss. Budget only in the high 20's. They can make their case by having a passionate fan base and ability to create rivals with Tulane and Memphis.
Rice. Similar to SMU and Tulsa because they have a 6 billion dollar endowment and Strong Academics.
North Texas. UNT has the 2nd highest budget in CUSA and pays their Coach 1.85 million. Football Facilities are superb with a new Indoor Practice Facility. Just 3 winning seasons since 2005, but they check the boxes.
FAU. Stadium opened in 2011 and just invested 40 million in an athletics building that opened last year. FAU said they will continue to pay and invest if invited to a new conference.
MWC teams joining AAC. The Mountain West has a TV contract at around $4 million. AAC is slightly higher. But with increased travel cost and fees to leave the conference and join the new conference, MWC teams will likley lose money or break even if they move. MWC budgets are in 50's so they are attactive to the AAC.
MWC geography does not make it condusive to expansion.
Sun Belt Expansion. The Sun Belt will want to expand and focus on Football moving forward. They have 2 teams that were ranked in the Top 25 this season. Some CUSA teams have reached out to the Sun Belt. Charlotte, Southern Miss, and Marshall are in the Sun Belt Footprint but do not have an interest in joining.
CUSA Expansion. CUSA has nothing to offer other G5 Schools. Members are frustrated with TV rights. NFL Network deal didn't move the needle and members say they would accept less money in TV rights if their games can be on TV more. James Madison would be an option for CUSA and so would Liberty. But CUSA has turned down Liberty before.
MAC expansion. MAC teams travel alot by bus and it saves the Universities money. They are comfortable. Only Buffalo has a budget in the 40's but their location is not ideal because the AAC is looking to expand south.
There are many proposals to redraw the Group of 5 and/or make it a Group of 4 or making it more Geography based. But the AAC wants no part of it.
There may be more news in November when the NCAA Consitutional Committee meets and proposes Structural changes.
- Presidents decided if they want to change conferences, not AD's.
- Presidents want new members to have 3 things in place. A budget of $40-$60 million. New Facilities. And Coaches to be paid over a Million dollars.
- If a team has a smaller overall budget, new facilites, and a winning program, a school can overlook the financial committment.
- Example, East Carolina has a $50 million dollar budget, but lacks facilities and success.
Schools Mentioned
Appalachian State and Lousiana. Good options because of success, but only $30 million dollar budget and coaches not paid a million. However, new facilities.
UAB. Checks alot of boxes. New Stadium, on field success, pays Bill Clark 1.5 Million, but budget is $30 million.
Liberty. Big budget. Great Facilities. Winning Program. Article said that Liberty offered CUSA tens of millions to join. But Political Views of the University have scared off Liberal Presidents.
James Madison. Budget in the mid 50's. New Facilities. 2016 FCS champions. Good Candidate for invitations.
Marshall. Budget in the low 30's, but attendance is good and they have a solid history.
Charlotte. This would be a "future play." Charlotte is not where it needs to be to be attractive. But the large market and potential for growth makes them appealing. Budget is in the high 30's.
Georgia State. Same as Charlotte with Atlanta being a large market. Pay their football Coach 750k.
UTSA. Growing Urban Area. Budget in the 30's and has opened at $41 million athletic facility and is building a Pavillion to cover Football Practice Field.
Old Dominion. Largest CUSA budget and just rebuilt the Football Stadium. Downside is little football success with a young program.
Southern Miss. Budget only in the high 20's. They can make their case by having a passionate fan base and ability to create rivals with Tulane and Memphis.
Rice. Similar to SMU and Tulsa because they have a 6 billion dollar endowment and Strong Academics.
North Texas. UNT has the 2nd highest budget in CUSA and pays their Coach 1.85 million. Football Facilities are superb with a new Indoor Practice Facility. Just 3 winning seasons since 2005, but they check the boxes.
FAU. Stadium opened in 2011 and just invested 40 million in an athletics building that opened last year. FAU said they will continue to pay and invest if invited to a new conference.
MWC teams joining AAC. The Mountain West has a TV contract at around $4 million. AAC is slightly higher. But with increased travel cost and fees to leave the conference and join the new conference, MWC teams will likley lose money or break even if they move. MWC budgets are in 50's so they are attactive to the AAC.
MWC geography does not make it condusive to expansion.
Sun Belt Expansion. The Sun Belt will want to expand and focus on Football moving forward. They have 2 teams that were ranked in the Top 25 this season. Some CUSA teams have reached out to the Sun Belt. Charlotte, Southern Miss, and Marshall are in the Sun Belt Footprint but do not have an interest in joining.
CUSA Expansion. CUSA has nothing to offer other G5 Schools. Members are frustrated with TV rights. NFL Network deal didn't move the needle and members say they would accept less money in TV rights if their games can be on TV more. James Madison would be an option for CUSA and so would Liberty. But CUSA has turned down Liberty before.
MAC expansion. MAC teams travel alot by bus and it saves the Universities money. They are comfortable. Only Buffalo has a budget in the 40's but their location is not ideal because the AAC is looking to expand south.
There are many proposals to redraw the Group of 5 and/or make it a Group of 4 or making it more Geography based. But the AAC wants no part of it.
There may be more news in November when the NCAA Consitutional Committee meets and proposes Structural changes.
UTEP isn’t even mentioned!! All of these scenarios are so depressing. If UTEP gets left behind again, maybe it’s time to end its athletic programs.
Can someone please explain what's the big deal about having an indoor football practice facility? Unless you're playing in a domed stadium, last I checked football is played OUTDOORS!
Recruits dont want to practice outdoors in Michigan in December. Or in San Antonio in August.
Recruiting is the lifeblood of college football. So building amenities recruits want shows a commitment to the program.
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UNT, Rice, and La. Tech don't have mountains nearby like UTEP does. How could the Mountain West choose schools that don't have mountains?
Even if basketball is a deciding factor, our basketball program has done nothing special in CUSA. Freaking UNT has a much better basketball program than we do right now and has more NCAA tourney wins than us since 1992.
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Dear UTSA, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
AAC, if you think bringing them in, for whatever reason your pot brownies are putting in your head, let me say this, CUSA thought UTEP was a great addition seventeen/eighteen years ago. It hasn't gone well.
AAC, if you think bringing them in, for whatever reason your pot brownies are putting in your head, let me say this, CUSA thought UTEP was a great addition seventeen/eighteen years ago. It hasn't gone well.
Right on. And sadly we have nothing to show for it other than being an average at best CUSA bb program.
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[FBS G5 schools] "hold my beer while I show this school how to jump off this roof for a WWE table slam".
Average? You’re overstating us
I don't even care where we end up. As long we win a few conference titles in our new shitty league.
Bingo! If we're lucky we wind up in the MWC. If not we'll stay in a CUSA that is basically unchanged. We'll probably loose utsa and uab, but it'll all come out in the wash. Most of the realignment drama will happen around us.
As long as the university is invested in sports and ups their game a little, maybe we can be a big fish in a shallow pond.
We've had some terrible luck. Who knew that Tim Floyd would be a bust? With that hire, we were on our way. Who knew that Mike Price would start hiring his children as assistants?
But with the Golding hire and this make/break season for Dimel, it's time to turn the corner. The university has made some good decisions that didn't pan
out, but they gave it the ole college try.
As long as the university is invested in sports and ups their game a little, maybe we can be a big fish in a shallow pond.
We've had some terrible luck. Who knew that Tim Floyd would be a bust? With that hire, we were on our way. Who knew that Mike Price would start hiring his children as assistants?
But with the Golding hire and this make/break season for Dimel, it's time to turn the corner. The university has made some good decisions that didn't pan
out, but they gave it the ole college try.
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Every other year it’s the same thing. Conferences get realigned and we’re on the outside looking in. We’ve been on the hamster wheel for the last 50 plus years going nowhere.
Fact is if UTEP wins they will out draw every school in the MWC. I have been there in seasons that avgd over 42,000 and have been to sale outs when the Sun Bowl is rocking. Basketball will out draw everyone except UNM. The problem is UTEP hasn't done much winning lately!
It's all about upside potential...new kids on the block - UTSA, UNT - what did you know or think about them 10 years ago? They have much more to offer today and down the road too. Watch out for the next one - Texas St? And once again, we're odd man out.
This may not be a popular opinion, but NMSU and UTEP need to start working together for realignment. I think Senter and the AD from NMSU have a good relationship. Both bring strong basketball potential, will add regional games for UNM. Football UTEP has shown they will draw if they win, same for NMSU, they do better than some CUSA schools. Both relate with many MWC schools. I really hope Senter and Wilson are being proactive, with reaching out. Whether they succeed or not. They also need to start reaching out to the boosters or the damn regents to invest in UTEP athletics. If Dimel gets canned, it’s time to dish out a million. Find a way, or UTEP will end up in a really bad CUSA.
It's always IF with UTEP. It's honestly annoying to hear it as a fan I can only imagine how other schools rolls their eyes at it. Let's prove it. The last time we had a winning season 7-5 we couldn't draw more than 27k for senior night on a must win game to secure a bowl and winning season for the first time in a decade. I'm almost 100% sure if we go 7-5 or 8-4 this year we don't crack over 30k all year. Times have changed. People's only option of watching the game back then was at the game. Now for $5 a month you can watch every game at home. Those rare crowds of 40k aren't coming back.
Basketball I still think we have a chance to draw 10k but with covid it might be tough. Some don't want to be in an enclosed space with 10k other people. MW could probably pick up a few Basketball only schools that are as good or better than UTEP without out the anchor of our awful football program.
Basketball I still think we have a chance to draw 10k but with covid it might be tough. Some don't want to be in an enclosed space with 10k other people. MW could probably pick up a few Basketball only schools that are as good or better than UTEP without out the anchor of our awful football program.
We all love capitalism right? Then sell your product to even the fickle hearted. Price would sell UTEP tickets to the elote man at the park. He didn't get UTEP to the pinnacle of CUSA as he promised but that doesn't mean he didn't sell UTEP hard. Kugler had a personal view point limits and Dimel is a self proclaimed un-rah-rah coach.
UTEP needs a "rah rah" coach, and a few more wins, to lift morale. Morale = sales.
UTEP needs a "rah rah" coach, and a few more wins, to lift morale. Morale = sales.
UTEP doesn't have that many major boosters, if any depending on your definition of major. The regents only care about UT Austin.
Speaking of "rah rah" guys, the first person that comes to mind is Mack Brown. How in the name of tarnation did UT RGV get him to be on their football feasibility committee?
The last full season with fans UTEP averaged 4k for hoops. I expect they'll be around that this year. Basketball attendance was always propped up by an old season ticket base who remembered the glory days. If you're under 35 I'm sure you have no memory or very limited of the 92 team and they certainly wouldn't remember the eighties. I think people forget for people 35 and under the hoops program has been as bad as the football program. Basketball was always propped up by an old fans base. When they started dying off there was no one waiting to replace them. I think being in a one bid league where the regular season is meaningless has diminished the fan base. That's a hard ticket to sale. If we could get 8000 for a game I will be happy and suprised. Ideally the Haskins Center needs to reduce capacity to around 7000 and add amenities. Unfortunately because of how it's built I don't thinks that's possible.
I see where you're going life, but reducing is not good for concerts. Some popular country singer came in two weeks ago and about sold it out (I'm an old head banger, so I forget his name).
You do what Moccia did at NMSU and you aggressively go after new money that has moved in. Texas is the hot state to move to now and El Paso is no exception. Are many Ft. Bliss transfers buying off base? Yeah, but many are not.
Look openings in the MW! Thankfully Senter has us in position to capitalize on this. Exciting times ahead for Miner fans! Our wishes are finally coming true. Who's coming with us? UNT or RICE or maybe UTSA if they're snubbed by the AAC.
MWC probably snags UTSA and UNT. Unless AAC takes one of them first… Which I hope happens! Then maybe UTEP gets the MWC invite
With Wilson as our President and Senter as our AD for this round of realignment, I guess we are about to find out if they are up to the task.
Should start snuggling up to NMSU? Would our pairing be more attractive to conference suitors than each school individually?
