Bob Stull
- Thread starter Jimmy the Miner
- Start date
I doubt Natalicio fires Stull. Wasn't she in charge of UTEP during the 80s. She could care less about athletics. Accept it.
Last edited:
Commuter university or not, it's their university, their team and if they don't care to support athletics even marginally why should I or anybody else? It appeared about 500 students were sitting in the student section last game, those are numbers you get at Sul Ross and WNMU. Sorry to be so harsh, but students have voted on two occasions not to provide any funding from fees and they don't attend games (a damming indication of how much they care). I suspect this apathy is not only just students but likely is rampant though out the university community. We can play the blame game with coaches, leadership, athletic directors et al but bottom line any organization is only as strong as the support it gives itself. Student participation is the foundation of every program, without it you are dead before you start. Our mantra once was "wait till basketball season" now it appears to be "if they.... if they..... if they....". Well many the they(s) who supported UTEP are either too tired, too old or too far away to care as much as they once did (look at a typical UTEP crowd and you will see what I mean) and the burden of supporting the program will fall on those who so far haven't shown much interest in doing so.
Good question, but I follow UTEP athletics not only because I graduated from UTEP, but also because I love sports. A lot of people don't care about sports and would rather spend time with their families, do other activities, etc. Can you really blame them? This is why UTEP needs better marketing like the Chihuahuas. I know a number of people who don't like baseball, but they attend the Chihuahuas games because it's a great atmosphere and they have a fun time going to the games eventhough they don't know what's really happening on the field.
True passion for football, basketball, etc. is nurtured (or not) by parents when potential fans are young. Nothing will magically instill it if they didn't grow up with it -- even great marketing.
Also, today's college students grew up with technology. They get bored watching a football game for 3-4 hours. They'd much rather "watch" at a party with lots of other stimuli.
UTEP's students seem more apathetic than other schools', but getting student butts in seats is a problem most schools are facing.
I have to disagree with that. UTEP's marketing department is very bad. They couldn't market coffee in Alaska.
I think if UTEP had a great marketing department more students would show up. NMSU does a lot of student only giveaways. Their student section is really good and puts UTEP's to shame. Obviously it is easier since most students live on campus, but if UTEP had a great marketing department I think more students would show up.
My guess is a few thousand and at the Pan Am their student section is always full and most of the students are standing the whole game.
It doesn't hurt that NMSU wins their basketball game and winning cures everything. Hopefully that changes soon here.
Student support matters a great deal on the overall effect of team play, recruiting in addition to program health. Quality athletes want a "college experience" in addition to playing their sport. Would you attend a college where you sit in a class in obscurity, were many of your classmates aren't even aware when or where or who plays, not because they just don't know but because they don't care. Imagine you are a high school star where you were treated like a god and you're now at UTEP where fellow students don't care and don't support you and even a few resent you. Many here mention those at the top are responsible for our "issues" in the program (I don't believe in Saviors) although they do have a role. I respectfully disagree the base, the foundation of any organization is the most important which in this case is the students who make up the majority of this foundation. Their apathy permeates thought out the program to leadership, to players to the program itself and most importantly to how we are perceived to the outside. Do we honestly think that nobody notices our student apathy? Every potential recruit notices and they really notice if they have seen alternatives. Sadly this extends to after graduation as well, too many leave UTEP and disappear and exit the UTEP scene completely. It's really isn't leaderships job to make you care. We can rearrange the deck chairs all we want but until this fundamental is addressed the results are going to be the same. Yung, Lee, Baily, Nord, Price, Kugler some may have moved the needle a bit, but none got us over the hump. UTEP will have a change at the top, likely pretty soon I'm thinking but if the lack of support and apathy is not addressed in five or seven or ten years from now nothing will have changed.
Last edited:
Do you know any current UTEP students? I do, and the ones I know don't GAF about UTEP sports. Changing that will be very hard given the makeup of the student body:
IMV, most of them don't graduate in 4 years. Many spend their first two years at EPCC to save money and have a more flexible schedule so they can work and pay their own way through. Many didn't grow up in households that followed UTEP sports. Many have jobs and kids.
So if the student section was filled UTEP would win more games? Don't think so.
The "fans made an outcome in the game" is a false narrative. If a team wins a big game they say how the fans had something to do with the win, but obviously if they lose nobody is going to say that the fans had something to do with the loss.
Buy how much of that is tied to the current state of the athletic department? In 2000 you couldn't get a ticket to the games if you tried. In 04 and 05 the student section wold sell out in advance of the games. Isn't it true that students would camp for tickets in the 80s for basketball? We're in a bad cycle where no one wants to support these teams because they don't win and because of that the university loses revenue and it becomes harder to break said cycle. Yet when they win everyone and their mother are buying their new UTEP shirt and cheering.
That's pretty much every school.
Winning cures everything. Unless you're a die-hard fan, you aren't going to see a losing team.
What you're saying is right, but these days for UTEP students, and many El Paso fans, winning only brings them out for the last/biggest games, once the team is a proven winner.
The rest of us diehards will be in The Don for Southeastern Oklahoma State. I don't even know where SE Okie State is, and I'll have to look up their roster on my phone to see where their players are from, and if I might recognize one.
I see your point and I know many UTEP students and work with them each day and your description is accurate. However, the fact that most don't GAF or can't or whatever limits the foundation on which UTEP can build period. This places the burden on the community and donors (some who are distancing themselves from UTEP sports because it is a rabbit hole for their donations). My point is why should I, a fan, a donor provide support to any organization who demonstrates the apathy that UTEP students have shown for their own program. My generation of UTEP football fans have endured this situation for more than 30 years and many like me are more than willing to hand it over to the next generation if there is anyone who cares enough to take it.
No they don't influence directly but they do indirectly. A few years back coach RABs recruited the leading scorer in northern California by the name of Nick Enzwilier. I got to know him in his brief stay at UTEP (he transferred out the next season). His reason for leaving was that when first got to UTEP, his first day of class he sat next to cutie and introduced himself and he played for the basketball team, she replied "we have a basketball team?" joking or not that pretty much set the theme for his time here. He mentioned UTEP in the afternoon was a ghost town, he tried to get students in his classes excited about the first game and was greeted with polite silence. When he left he was a bit bitter because he felt total indifference from students. How many top recruits see and feel this on their visit to UTEP? How many choose not to come here because they have heard stories like his? We don't hear this much in EP but I promise you this is the narrative of UTEP, out there in Midland, Houston and LA. Fans don't decide the outcome of a game but players dedication to who they play for does. ARMY just clocked our asses with likely lower level talent albeit not just because of our coaching or theirs but they are playing for ARMY and all the pride and tradition and support that organization has. WHO do UTEP players play for?
I would just say continue being a fan if you enjoy it, without expecting anyone else to do so, which will only ruin your enjoyment.
A big part of who they play for (if they're not pro material) must be their coaches and teammates. The students/fans too, but it all starts with the coach in my view.
I hate the tired argument "but the fans don't show up". Tickets aren't free and to a lot of people paying $12 for a ticket and even $8 for a basketball ticket is a lot of money.
That's very true, winning will cure UTEP's attendance issues. Student's and the general public love identifying with a winning program. They Chihuahua's are one of the attendance leaders in the PCL because they win and UTEP had great attendance back in the early days of Price and during Stull's years. We may never know if Kugler ball, as boring as the offense is, will attract consistently big crowds with a consistent winner. You just can't have abysmal performances like the Army game and expect people to come back.
I found this gem from 1990 when Stull was at Mizzou. He explains how he did not pay attention and notice that CU already played four downs in the famous "5th down play" that cost Missouri the game. Listen carefully, he lumps himself as a coach with what fans experience during a game. Nice! Someone get Eric Trump to get this AD to help out dad! Ugh!
Similar threads
