Change of philosophy causes UTEP to pull FB offer

[MinerInWisconsin]

According to Rivals and Minerrush..

According to Rivals.com, UTEP has pulled the scholarship offer from Rockwall commit Luke Termin.

The article cites a change in philosophy as the reason for UTEP backing out of their original offer and Termin's verbal commitment..

From Rivals:

Termin back on market, not by choice12/19/2015 Rivals.com Football Recruiting

"Rockwall (Texas) had one of their best football seasons ever and it was due in large part to the senior leadership that Luke Termin brings on both sides of the football. The talented Termin could play offense or defense at the next level -- that's what UTEP ever told him -- until they told him that there was a change in philosophy and took away his scholarship. Now what is Termin doing?"

 

[VA Miner]

It's nice to know they have a philosophy, but what the hell is it. I thought they wanted to be a run first team, and they cut a fullback. Color me confused.

 

[Firstdowndash]

Bad pub for UTEP. You don't pull an offer on a 17-18 year old kid. This is a very dumb move by Kugler and Co.

 

[TrojanMiner]

Very stupid move. You don't pull the offer. Sends a terrible message to current and future recruits about UTEP's commitment to them. Then again, Kug is slowly becoming a gaffe machine so I really shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Tucson_Miner]

Why do we do stupid things like this?! Stull, Kug, and Floyd need to do the right thing.

 

[develman]

Offers get pulled all the time. My theory they found out he was a three star recruit and thought better of it.

 

[utep2step]

Offers get pulled all the time. My theory they found out he was a three star recruit and thought better of it.

Lol. Probably true. Offers get pulled. What do you want Kug to do? Pull a coach Sumlin and offer the kid the moon to A&M and then don't come through? Hows that philosophy working for him?

 

[nattybry]

It's obvious by this report they will be running an offense without a FB! Why is it Stupid if the offense changes then there will be no need for a FB and this is the right move!

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Kids back out of commitments before the signing period all the time, I have no problem with Kugler pulling his scholarship especially if we're changing offenses and he has no shot of playing. If he came to UTEP, all that would happen is he would transfer first chance he gets. At least Kugler and co. we're straight foward with him and they've given him time to hopefully receive another scholarship.

 

[Firstdowndash]

Kugler didn't even place a call to him to inform him. Yes, kids change their minds all the time, but guess what? They are KIDS, not grown men making a quarter million dollars a year.

You don't pull the offer, you call the kid and tell him things have changed but the offer is still on the table. You tell him he might need to make a position change when he arrives and if that's OK with the kid then you suck it up and sign him. But for the HC to not even call him himself, that's bush league. Be man Kugler, practice what you preach. This BS. I will place a call to the athletic department this upcoming week.

 

[PositivelyPete]

What is your call going to do? Maybe this boy was offered to change positions and didn't want to. We will have to wait till Bret Broomquist has a story on it to get the real scoop.

 

[MineroFanatico]

What is your call going to do? Maybe this boy was offered to change positions and didn't want to. We will have to wait till Bret Broomquist has a story on it to get the real scoop.

The kid spoke about how it went down. Apparently he found out initially from his HS coach that the offer had been pulled, then a defensive coach finally called the kid and told him the offer had been pulled. Doesn't sound like there was any flexibility on the part of the coaching staff, talk about position change, etc, just an abrupt pulling of the offer.

 

[nattybry]

It may have not been handled correctly idk the full story, but I don't have an issue with it if Kugler reaches out to the kid and helps him get another scholarship with a reference or something. That'd be the right thing to do. Pulling the scholarship is not the issue here, so much as how it was done.

 

[Minerforlife]

I feel bad for the kid but I have no issue with it. We changed philosophys and he no longer fits. It would have been a disservice to the kid and team if they would have brought him in. He has other options he will land on his feet. This happens all the time.

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

If the offense is changing and there is no spot now for this kid then by all means tell him to look for other opportunities. Better than pulling a scholarship from a kid already on the team. Wonder how Darin Lafausa will be used next season.

Of interest to me is that our offense will change and what that might look like. Obviously it will be a one back instead of 2 which means more players split wide and in slots. Sounds like possibly a run heavy spread like Minerforlife has mentioned.

 

[nattybry]

Pistol?

 

[Minerforlife]

Spread option

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

One more note on this issue is that last year Louisville pulled an offer just 2 days before signing day. The high school where the player was from then banned Louisville from any further recruiting at their school. You don't want to pizz off high school coaches where you expect to recruit in the future. Hope this works out for the kid and that he has time to hook up with another college.

 

[miner661]

One more note on this issue is that last year Louisville pulled an offer just 2 days before signing day. The high school where the player was from then banned Louisville from any further recruiting at their school. You don't want to pizz off high school coaches where you expect to recruit in the future. Hope this works out for the kid and that he has time to hook up with another college.

Well, good thing this wasn't two days before signing day. The player has an entire winter, spring, and summer to find a new football home. I don't fully understand the onslaught and lambasting by some of Kugler. Not a single one of us fully comprehends what truly transpired (as in the entire story). Rivals reports a little blurb, leaves out a few key ingredient details, and many of the board members takes it as gospel. The player said this and the player said that...tongue and teeth will tell you anything. If the player's attributes don't fit the new offensive philosophies, why would he want to be at UTEP? Remember, many of you wanted a new offensive system. If he's as great a football player as that small Rivals blurb indicates he is, he's sure to find a school that will utilize his talents within their own schemes.

 

[LaserCoog]

Offers get pulled all the time. My theory they found out he was a three star recruit and thought better of it.

Factually incorrect statement. And even in those rare cases when it does, it never works out well for the school. Nugget07 nailed it earlier, you talk to the kid and explain the facts, but you do NOT piss EVERYBODY off and screw the kid. If he voluntarily elects to de-commit, so be it.

 

[LaserCoog]

What is your call going to do? Maybe this boy was offered to change positions and didn't want to. We will have to wait till Bret Broomquist has a story on it to get the real scoop.

It's going to make a loud statement that you are a stand-up guy, that you run a program based on honesty, credibility, integrity, open communication, and character.

Old expression, some lessons are best not learned the hard way. For three years, this has been nothing short of on the job training for Kugler. He's undoubtedly learned a lot of lessons. There ARE no secrets in Texas High School football, especially in how you treat people. Karma is a bitch. The lessons - and the losing - will continue...

 

[miner661]

It's going to make a loud statement that you are a stand-up guy, that you run a program based on honesty, credibility, integrity, open communication, and character.

Old expression, some lessons are best not learned the hard way. For three years, this has been nothing short of on the job training for Kugler. He's undoubtedly learned a lot of lessons. There ARE no secrets in Texas High School football, especially in how you treat people. Karma is a bitch. The lessons - and the losing - will continue...

Says the Mike Price homer. Is this (bolded) what you're hoping for? We all know you have a love affair with Price and a deeply rooted hatred for Kugler (for reasons unbeknownst). Guess what...Mr. Price has also been known to pull scholarship offers, just days before the signing period.

http://www.minerrush.com/2011/1/24/...-scholarship-offers-from-baldwin-park-commits

 

[UTEPDefense]

If you Google "scholarship offer pulled because of tweet" you will immediately find half a hundred stories about schools pulling scholarship offers because of simple tweets(much less bigger attitude issues). Schools like Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Louisville, etc. have done this. This is a normal occurance in football recruiting, just google it.

I don't know if this kid did anything wrong or not, but I doubt that UTEP would drop a "3 Star Recruit" unless they had a legitimate reason to do so. Kugler has run a near perfect program in regards to player character issues and a perfect Program APR score(for the first time in program history), why not give Kugler the benefit of doubt, when something obviously caused him to decide that he did not want this kid in his program.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Offers get pulled all the time. My theory they found out he was a three star recruit and thought better of it.

Usually a new coach coming into a program pulls an offer to a previous coaches recruit. Not a three year in coach.

Some of the other comments about how the kid found out; from his HS coach sets a bad tone for recruiting. I'm sure Kug's has his reasons. But people forget, this is the age of the social networks and kids talk. A coach not being up front with a player can expect that player to let his friends know and his friends are usually other athletes.

 

[Minerforlife]

Usually a new coach coming into a program pulls an offer to a previous coaches recruit. Not a three year in coach.

Some of the other comments about how the kid found out; from his HS coach sets a bad tone for recruiting. I'm sure Kug's has his reasons. But people forget, this is the age of the social networks and kids talk. A coach not being up front with a player can expect that player to let his friends know and his friends are usually other athletes.

Its a dead period for recruiting. Thats why his high school coach told him. Coaches cant have any contact with recruits until January 13.

 

[LaserCoog]

Says the Mike Price homer. Is this (bolded) what you're hoping for? We all know you have a love affair with Price and a deeply rooted hatred for Kugler (for reasons unbeknownst). Guess what...Mr. Price has also been known to pull scholarship offers, just days before the signing period.

http://www.minerrush.com/2011/1/24/...-scholarship-offers-from-baldwin-park-commits

Almost 3,500 posts and all you got is a Mike Price reference?

And your cited reference interestingly overlooked the fact that both recruits were offered gray shirts. For your benefit, that means they would have received full scholarships after one semester on campus.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

Its a dead period for recruiting. Thats why his high school coach told him. Coaches cant have any contact with recruits until January 13.

Even still. My familiarity is that coaches wait until immediately after or before the dead period to tell the kid themselves. I'm not dumping on Kug's at all, but stand up type of coaches break the bad news themselves. Weak coaches like Paul Rhoads let the HS coaches tell the kid for them. Kug's isn't a Rhoads type of coach.

 

[kickballpro]

There is such a double standard when it comes to Floyd vs Kugler. Coach Kug is on the 'hot seat' and has to make coaching changes after 3 seasons. Floyd was basically given 5 years of 'you can't blame him.'

Floyd offers 10-15 scholarships a year, do you really believe he has never recinded one? Of course he has. Plus, Floyd gave Caldwell a scholarship and took it away. But that was the best thing for the program, remember?

 

[miner661]

Almost 3,500 posts and all you got is a Mike Price reference?

And your cited reference interestingly overlooked the fact that both recruits were offered gray shirts. For your benefit, that means they would have received full scholarships after one semester on campus.

Nice retort.

I know full well what a gray shirt offer means. "We want you...we just don't want you right now." It doesn't hide the fact the initial full ride scholarships were pulled from those players just days before the NLI signing period started. That's what this thread is about, right? Kugler's being criticized for pulling a scholarship offer. Other coaches, including your favorite, have done the same.

 

[LaserCoog]

Some posters on this board seem to feel that rescinding scholarship offers is a common occurrence. It is not. The number of pulled offers each year is microscopic versus the total number of FCS/BCS football offers. Moreover, of those pulled offers, the vast majority was due to character events/issues committed by the athlete between commit and signing dates (arrests, drugs, grades, etc.). Particularly in Texas high school football, the concentric damage and ill will resulting from a randomly pulled offer far usually outweighs any benefit to the school/program.

Of course, that presumes you begin a long term recruiting plan and a positive relationship with HS coaches.

 

[Minerforlife]

Some posters on this board seem to feel that rescinding scholarship offers is a common occurrence. It is not. Of thousands of FCS/FBS offers each year, the ratio of rescinded offers is microscopic. Moreover, without investing hours of research, the vast majority of that small number is the result of character issues (arrests, drugs,

I agree it is rare. However, this is Kugler's fourth recruiting class and this is the first offer he has rescinded. Programs pull offers every year. On average age there are 70 fbs offers pulled a year. I agree it sucks for the kid. If this was a trend I would have a huge problem with Kugler, but this isnt a trend. It happened because we changed philosophys. This is the collateral damage that comes from changing schemes.

 

[LaserCoog]

Nice retort.

I know full well what a gray shirt offer means. "We want you...we just don't want you right now." It doesn't hide the fact the initial full ride scholarships were pulled from those players just days before the NLI signing period started. That's what this thread is about, right? Kugler's being criticized for pulling a scholarship offer. Other coaches, including your favorite, have done the same.

My favorite coach? That hysterical. Yours posts are a cross between The History Channel and Comedy Central.

P.S. It's not just the what. It's the how/when...

 

[LaserCoog]

Coach Kug is on the 'hot seat' and has to make coaching changes after 3 seasons.

Disagree. Kugler is on the 'hot seat' because he failed to make changes during 3 seasons.

 

[UTEPDefense]

All that anybody knows about this situation is a quick comment from the Recruit's point of view. Based solely off of that, maybe it would be best not to bash Kugler so quickly.

 

[kickballpro]

Some posters on this board seem to feel that rescinding scholarship offers is a common occurrence. It is not. The number of pulled offers each year is microscopic versus the total number of FCS/BCS football offers. Moreover, of those pulled offers, the vast majority was due to character events/issues committed by the athlete between commit and signing dates (arrests, drugs, grades, etc.). Particularly in Texas high school football, the concentric damage and ill will resulting from a randomly pulled offer far usually outweighs any benefit to the school/program.

Of course, that presumes you begin a long term recruiting plan and a positive relationship with HS coaches.

The SEC allows you to sign 28 to NLI even though you are only allowed 25. They used to have a problem with coaches signing 30+ players. They oversign because they know there will be non-qualifiers, but in some cases they have to rescind. A NLI is not a financial agreement as we learned with Isaac Hamilton.

However, we're not even talking about an NLI or Scholarship papers, we're talking about a verbal. Verbal's are not governed. This athlete would have ditched UTEP in a heartbeat if a better school came along.

Here is an excerpt from an sbnation article on this topic:

"Recruits know they can break verbal commitments and re-open their recruiting. But a verbal commitment can also be used as a placeholder by a coach who leads a prospect to believe he has a spot on the team, until that coach finds someone better. Or, the recruit who expected to enroll in time to play as a freshman can be asked to enroll later, spending a year away from the team; this is called grayshirting."

I don't like the fact that UTEP backed out on this kid. However, its not even January yet, its not last minute. If he's a true D1 kid he will get his full ride elsewhere. I don't think its as sleezy as the stuff Saban and Miles are doing. Plus, the coach who recruited this kid has probably been fired.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

...the coach who recruited this kid has probably been fired.

THIS is probably the biggest deciding factor in pulling it.

 

[Tribalwarriorx]

...That's what this thread is about, right? Kugler's being criticized for pulling a scholarship offer. Other coaches, including your favorite, have done the same.

LOL! Now I'm confused cause I thought the post was over how it was done, not that it was done. LOL. Help! LOL. (and that's right, they have)

 

[LaserCoog]

@kickballpro, no question that college football is and always has been a dirty business, on both sides of the ledger. Coaches invest untold resources in athletes, only to be stiffed at the last second by players who got a "better offer" - literally and figuratively. Unscrupulous coaches, a couple of whom you named, bend every rule and screw kids without peril - as long as they win. Years ago before ANY limits on scholarships, certain schools (e.g. Texas) would offer and GIVE scholarships to players with the full knowledge they would likely not see the field during their career - just to keep them from signing with a rival school. Yes, it really did happen that way! But all that said, there's no excuse for a coach for using any of that as an excuse for not doing the right thing. Doesn't seem to be a pattern at UTEP, but even one time can have concentric repercussions in Texas HS football circles.

 

[MinerInWisconsin]

@kickballpro, no question that college football is and always has been a dirty business, on both sides of the ledger. Coaches invest untold resources in athletes, only to be stiffed at the last second by players who got a "better offer" - literally and figuratively. Unscrupulous coaches, a couple of whom you named, bend every rule and screw kids without peril - as long as they win. Years ago before ANY limits on scholarships, certain schools (e.g. Texas) would offer and GIVE scholarships to players with the full knowledge they would likely not see the field during their career - just to keep them from signing with a rival school. Yes, it really did happen that way! But all that said, there's no excuse for a coach for using any of that as an excuse for not doing the right thing. Doesn't seem to be a pattern at UTEP, but even one time can have concentric repercussions in Texas HS football circles.

@kickballpro, no question that college football is and always has been a dirty business, on both sides of the ledger. Coaches invest untold resources in athletes, only to be stiffed at the last second by players who got a "better offer" - literally and figuratively. Unscrupulous coaches, a couple of whom you named, bend every rule and screw kids without peril - as long as they win. Years ago before ANY limits on scholarships, certain schools (e.g. Texas) would offer and GIVE scholarships to players with the full knowledge they would likely not see the field during their career - just to keep them from signing with a rival school. Yes, it really did happen that way! But all that said, there's no excuse for a coach for using any of that as an excuse for not doing the right thing. Doesn't seem to be a pattern at UTEP, but even one time can have concentric repercussions in Texas HS football circles.

It could or since it is rare at UTEP and since the timing gives the recruit some time to find another school and since UTEP is shuffling coaches and philosophy, probably not dire. Would have been better in my opinion, to help the kid find a school and if none is found, bring him on for the defensive side. He does play DE as well as FB.

 

[LaserCoog]

Would have been better in my opinion, to help the kid find a school and if none is found, bring him on for the defensive side. He does play DE as well as FB.

Agree. My impression is UTEP is painfully short on pure athletes, kids with good frames who can run and have really bad attitudes. However distasteful, at this point pulling an offer is neither a deal maker or breaker for Kugler. Highly doubt he's got another three year plan, he should just move on from this and cut his losses. Even an outsider can see his college coaching career hinges on getting the next couple of hires right.