Georgia Tech coach says ... At some schools, it's ludicrous to do the same as everyone else

[MinerInWisconsin]

I think UTEP fits into the group of schools that has to do without the best recruits, etc.

“At some schools, it’s ludicrous to try to do the same thing (as everyone else),” Johnson said. “If I am at University X, and it’s not like University Z, we don’t have the wherewithal, the budget, the staff, the 100,000 people in the stands, why would I think I can beat them doing the same thing they’re doing? That’s crazy to me.”

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a...its-ludicrous-to-do-the-same-as-everyone-else

 

[FeralFelidae]

I think UTEP fits into the group of schools that has to do without the best recruits, etc.

“At some schools, it’s ludicrous to try to do the same thing (as everyone else),” Johnson said. “If I am at University X, and it’s not like University Z, we don’t have the wherewithal, the budget, the staff, the 100,000 people in the stands, why would I think I can beat them doing the same thing they’re doing? That’s crazy to me.”

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a...its-ludicrous-to-do-the-same-as-everyone-else

Well, Kugler did try to do something different, with an old-fashioned smash-mouth football philosophy when most other schools have switched to the spread.

What else would you propose we try? The option?

 

[unihorn]

Air Raid

 

[utep2step]

Oh gawd please don't refer the "Air Raid"!! That's what Mumme the dummy called his offense.

During the Army smack down of UTEP, the TV commentators talked about the Army decision to go the their option style offense (Flex or whatever you call it). It wasn't the coaches decision, it was the top brass decision at West Point in order to be realistic in who they can actually recruit and have a viable option to compete in the FBS. My opinion, it is very short sighted and slightly myopic. High schools coast to coast, north to south, rich and poor are running spread type offenses. High schools in Nebraska dropped the option and run based offenses for the spread so the Husker AD staff had to say bye to the old and hello to the new. So Army can recruit any kid from anywhere USA to play the spread if they so desire.

Kugler made three mistakes 1) Tried to bring immediate NFL toughness to a 18 to 20 old year old young man 2) Run first, if you fail, run it again offense that clearly does not work anymore 3) Borderline questionable player development.

1) Players getting hurt before first game kickoff. This cost Kugler his entire third year. Instead of building off of a bowl game, players limped into the Sun Bowl, many with no experience because veterans were hurt. Grumblings were bubbling over but no body challenged Kugler until he came clean after last season was over and he went for counseling to Coach Bailiff at Rice. Kugler came in with his broad shoulder, "these kids aren't tough enough" approach as to why UTEP was failing under the previous coaching staff. Kids playing at this level are tough, but NFL readiness and toughness is another whole different level, just like going from the stud player in high school to FBS football. But hey! Fans and media bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

2)Even during the Showers under center days, Kugler's offensive philosophy was questioned. UTEP could not complete a pass play, much less over ten yards. So defensive coordinators just put eight in the box and had their secondary keep UTEP receivers in front of them (just enough to keep them short for the first down marker if they passed). Showers or Jones usually made the first down with their legs and a wicked stiff arm employed by Jones that usually got him a few extra yards. Now, everyone just aims for Jones ankles.

3)Other than the Jones brothers and Showers (who is now with the Cowboys), is there any tangible player development? Needham is making some progress. Plinke can make the big plays but he's only be utilized a lot in only one game in the last two years (two weeks ago against La Tech). The O line? What happened?! Greenlee? Teicher has been heard on the radio saying he has a bad finger that he hurt against NMSU that causes his bad passing, but why did Kugler use him for so long? I think the consensus is just to play Metz under center and let him do his magic. He'll throw an interception under haste from time to time, but the intangibles he brings during a live game totally outweigh the occasional interception. Jones brothers and Metz are the only two who have made seeable progress.

Fire Kugler, get a coach who's head is in todays college game. (Something UTEP fans took for granted when Kugler was hired and took for granted while Price was at UTEP).

 

[unihorn]

I'm not advocating the Air Raid at UTEP, although it could work with the right coach.

I'm simply citing it as an example of an offense that was designed to negate talent differentials.

 

[nattybry]

Here is all I know, smaller schools, with smaller budgets, in much smaller cities in smaller conferences have won and are winning. Utep hasn't really been an elite mid major with the exception of Prices first year when they almost beat Colorado and Stills 2 years in the 80's. Utep simply does not get the recruits it needs to compete playing the way they do now. They have to be more versatile and innovative and need a coach who is not hard headed and understands this. I like Kugler has a hard nosed coach and think he's an A+ Offensive Line Coach in the NFL, but I dont think he's the answer as a head coach at a low mid major that has always had trouble recruiting. Utep has a fan base and a stadium unlike most schools are size, now we need a coach who can utilize this and take Utep to the level that us fans deserve to see!

 

[kickballpro]

I don't think the problem lies in player development. You can't make every piece of coal into a diamond. It may happen here and there but it's rare. Many schools get diamonds and merely have to polish them.

Being ranked year after year last in recruiting has caught up to us. We try to convince ourselves that those stars next to these preps names don't mean anything. But they do. Urban Meyer said it after the Wisconsin game, you have to start with good players. If you don't have good players, you will never succeed.

Believe or not, we have very good coaches. I worry though that by hiring assistants below the OC and DC level that have little experience or come from lower divisions have hurt our recruiting efforts. Coaching and recruiting are two different monsters and you to be great at both.

 

[utep2step]

I'm not advocating the Air Raid at UTEP, although it could work with the right coach.

I'm simply citing it as an example of an offense that was designed to negate talent differentials.

True, but did you read Kugler's Monday bullet point presser? No one.....no one....including Kugler and his staff, really know what kind of talent they have.

At face value, it was refreshing to read Monday's article about how Kugler is changing things and going back to things to turn this season around. But one thing glared out (once again) in the article....Kugler doesn't know what the F he is doing! He is moving defensive personnel to the offense, the O line is not as deep as claims were made (The line actually has only three O lineman who are solid and will stay at their position), he spent the bye week going over the fundamentals of tackling, once again he has mentioned that he is going to bring in players who are sitting on the sideline who bring more athletically and talent on offense, including a deep reserve, are you kidding me? He didn't discuss how he will cut down the stupid numerous penalties, he didn't discuss why he went back to his old style after the LT loss. He will not admit that going with Greenlee for weeks and weeks was not prudent. He is sitting on a plethora of excellent TE's who appear to be the actual deep and talented group (unlike the O line) but hardly unused. He will not discuss the horrid play calling and how he will stop opposing teams from keeping eight in the box. Ugh! This is David Lee all over again!

UTEP has the players to run the spread tomorrow, but I don't think he knows it. He gives me the impression that he really doesn't know what he has.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

You may have a point there. It's one thing to be a position coach in the NFL, but being a college football headcoach and managing every aspect of a program is a whole other animal.

 

[unihorn]

This is the old "fitting your players to your system" or "fitting your system to your players" debate.

 

[LaserCoog]

You may have a point there. It's one thing to be a position coach in the NFL, but being a college football headcoach and managing every aspect of a program is a whole other animal.

Precisely. The criticism of Kugler has ALWAYS been about qualifications. From jump start, he was a nepotism hire, a Bob Stull experiment. After four seasons, DO NOT scratch your head and try to figure what went wrong, nobody wanted to hear the truth. Everybody bought into Stull's "he's one of ours" syndrome to explain away Kugler's lack of qualifications to be successful in the job.

To presume an NFL OL coach with zero collegiate credentials as a HC or coordinator at any level would be successful as an FBS HC is to presume that a veterinarian can perform open heart surgery - on YOU...

 

[LaserCoog]

Well, Kugler did try to do something different, with an old-fashioned smash-mouth football philosophy when most other schools have switched to the spread.

What else would you propose we try? The option?

Offense? Kugler simply cannot recruit quality offensive skill players to his offensive philosophy. He can't, the HS talent just isn't there.The vast majority of 5A and 6A Texas high school programs run some variation of a read-option offense. You think quality skill players are going to come to El Paso to play in what Kugler's been trying to sell?

Defense? Kugler may have a scheme but he doesn't have a philosophy. He doesn't. He's obviously not going to recruit 3-4 star kids, especially linemen. Instead, how about committing to rangy, 6'3 200 lb HS kids who can RUN and are football players . Kids who have been successful (e.g. all district+) at a high level in Texas and you've got the potential ingredients for a quality LB or rush end at the collegiate level. Maybe not the first 2-3 years, but look out during years 4-5. Kids that have the frame to put on maybe 20-30+ pounds as necessary.
, but can still RUN. Take HS safeties and make them LBs, turn HS LBs into DEs that can RUN and you've got not a scheme but a PHILOSOPHY.

I have seen none of this type of recruiting, player development, or strategic thinking At UTEP during the past four seasons.

P.S. You may see a trend/pattern in my comments above.

 

[nattybry]

Precisely. The criticism of Kugler has ALWAYS been about qualifications. From jump start, he was a nepotism hire, a Bob Stull experiment. After four seasons, DO NOT scratch your head and try to figure what went wrong, nobody wanted to hear the truth. Everybody bought into Stull's "he's one of ours" syndrome to explain away Kugler's lack of qualifications to be successful in the job.

To presume an NFL OL coach with zero collegiate credentials as a HC or coordinator at any level would be successful as an FBS HC is to presume that a veterinarian can perform open heart surgery - on YOU...

Not dissagreein with most of what your saying, but to correct Kugler was a College Coordinator, befor the NFL, but not much experience with that.

 

[FeralFelidae]

the O line is not as deep as claims were made (The line actually has only three O lineman who are solid and will stay at their position), he spent the bye week going over the fundamentals of tackling,

So what, did Kugler believe his own hype about the O-line and was simply blindsided by their underachievement, or did he know they weren't good but hyped them up anyway to generate excitement (and setting himself up to fail)?

As for the D, it was clear during the travesty that was the Army game that they needed to get back to fundamentals. I don't know if this is a function of bringing in a new D coordinator. It seemed to me like the D improved over the course of last season, and then they came into this season and forgot everything. And give them a new system to learn, to top it off. Even if the new D coordinator hire was the right call, it seems like they're starting from scratch. Did anybody think the D would be better this season and, if so, why?

 

[utep2step]

So what, did Kugler believe his own hype about the O-line and was simply blindsided by their underachievement, or did he know they weren't good but hyped them up anyway to generate excitement (and setting himself up to fail)?

As for the D, it was clear during the travesty that was the Army game that they needed to get back to fundamentals. I don't know if this is a function of bringing in a new D coordinator. It seemed to me like the D improved over the course of last season, and then they came into this season and forgot everything. And give them a new system to learn, to top it off. Even if the new D coordinator hire was the right call, it seems like they're starting from scratch. Did anybody think the D would be better this season and, if so, why?

Salesmanship. Plain and simple. If don't believe in your product, your doomed to fail, eventually. Kugler believes in this certain type of football philosophy that does have solid historical roots, but he seems to operate behind the curve for college football, and that in itself is mind boggling because he was an college assistant and learned under some good coaches. I, unlike some on this board, believe that Kugler has recruited kids here that can play with any team, any day. You can see the strength, the athleticism and the ability to perform (except for some, i.e. in the qb position) in these players; that I agree with Kugler on. But getting your ass handed to you by FIU two years in a row is just unacceptable, that falls squarely on him. Now it does take at least two years to learn a new defensive system. However, the players themselves were coming into the season hyped on it and saying they know it. I personally believe them and still do. It's the offense that has put them behind the eight ball all season and this offense is Kugler creation, no one else's. Just like the Dems tell the GOP, "Trump is your creation, you own him"; the same thing goes for Kugler and he has made a mess and IMO, needs to possibly abandon his offensive philosophy. It's just not realistic for today's college football, much less CUSA that have teams run a spread type offense and those that do are on top of the league in the standings and stats.

 

[LaserCoog]

I, unlike some on this board, believe that Kugler has recruited kids here that can play with any team, any day.

That might be a bit of a hard sell and, in reality, cuts to the core of the the qualifications issue. Kugler had zero background in college recruiting as has been reflected in his four recruiting classes, all rated DFL in C-USA. He had zero recruiting connections in Texas, particularly in the talent talent-rich metropolitan areas of the state. Presume you realize Alabama's starting QB is a true freshman from Houston.

Coaching and player development is important, to be sure, but you gotta have a few "reals" to start with (e.g. real big, real fast, real good, etc.). His strategy of mining El Paso talent makes sense on the surface, but, outside of the Jones brothers, the overall results thus far have arguably been spotty at best.

At the beginning, middle, and end of the day, player talent is defined and evaluated by on-field performance and won/loss record. Same with coaches.

 

[CubsFan81]

That might be a bit of a hard sell and, in reality, cuts to the core of the the qualifications issue. Kugler had zero background in college recruiting as has been reflected in his four recruiting classes, all rated DFL in C-USA. He had zero recruiting connections in Texas, particularly in the talent talent-rich metropolitan areas of the state..

You hit the nail right on the head. Kugler's bad recruiting connections is the reason why he signs so many kids from El Paso high schools. If Kugler has recruited kids that can play with any team, we would not be as bad as we are right now.