Whats taking so long? Now they are talking about doing a revote to move it somewhere else. It needs to be Downtown. Thats the heart of a city.
OT: Arena
- Thread starter FiliUTEP
- Start date
City Council has no vision. Putting an arena in Northeast El Paso does nothing for the future of our city. We need a strong city center that has shopping, access to Mexico, centralized tourism, real estate growth, and revitalization of dilapidated areas.
There is one small neighborhood putting up some resistance led by some ex county historical members who were let go because they violated the open meetings rule by sending out emails they should have not sent out and they admitted to their wrong doing (source: KLAQ "Buzz Adams" radio show) but feel the neighborhood should not be part of the arena footprint. It was on today's city agenda but I have no idea how it went down.
I agree the stadium should be downtown. I have never paid attention to the "Historic" Duranguito neighborhood when I am downtown but should it really be saved?
My wife works next to the durangito area so I drive by frequently. Yes, there are some people that live there. It sucks that they will have to relocate, but honestly they might be in a better spot afterwards. The area as a whole is run down. Saving the area will not mean the owners will improve the area. It would mean the area will deteriorate even more.
Personally, I thought the union plaza area would be a great place for the arena. Many old buildings that sit empty.
Quit wasting our money on studies. Build the damn thing before we need another bond election to raise more money because we can't afford it anymore.
Personally, I thought the union plaza area would be a great place for the arena. Many old buildings that sit empty.
Quit wasting our money on studies. Build the damn thing before we need another bond election to raise more money because we can't afford it anymore.
Yup, it's called "paralysis by analysis". Dems, from the local to national level, are notorious for this. I get that items need studied and analyzed and on the flip side you need more pragmatic and "go with your gut" approach but city council is going to flip to the right (like it did in early 2000's) if this council doesn't move more swiftly. I don't want the city to go to the right, gawd that sucked.
The Ray Caballero era sucked. The shift to the right I associate with Joe Wardy, who was still a registered Democrat, I believe. He only served one term but definitely left his mark by transforming El Paso's government to a city manager system. I lived outside of El Paso for the John Cook era so I can't speak from experience on him, but I guess he seemed like a good balance between the two? He's a lefty but El Paso still seemed to have some good business growth under him? Of course now that El Paso's a city manager government, how much power does the mayor have anymore? As for the council, isn't it good to have voices from both the left and the right?
Speaking of the city manager, what type of role does he have in pushing the arena plan through? He's not directly elected so he shouldn't have to worry too much about political consequences of taking over the languishing Duranguito neighborhood for the overall good of the city?
Don't think this is really a left or right thing. It's really about a small group who opposes the arena being build in that area. This group was emboldened buy the historical commission and by two council members who gave the group credence. The statement by Lilly Limon pretty much sums it up "We should listen to citizens suggestions even if they did not vote for the arena". Well I guess the 65% who vote for the DOWNTOWN ARENA don't really count. Being a politico is tough, but being a spineless politico is inexcusable. Mayors race coming up and something we should all ask those running for office Will you build the arena downtown as the voters asked you to do? if they say anything other than "yes, I will build it downtown" don't vote them in, they are spineless like the rest and we already know how much gets done with that kind of politico.
That will result in a massive lawsuit by voters, hotel and property owners which could tie this up for years and (I will led the effort if I have to). This is the same El Paso sh-- that has going on for years. We as a city are too politically inept to even forward our own cause. Clean them all out, vote new one's in, if they can't get the job done vote them out as well maybe in the next 50 years we can find a mayor and council who can serve the will of the voter. The Baseball field was one shinning moment of sanity for this city, but it back to the SOS now.
I agree. There was talk of a stadium 15 years ago and it died because of ineptitude. Get the damn thing built.
My grandparents, great-parents, great aunts and uncles along with mt cousins (their kids ) all lived on 13th Street in Segundo Barrio. In the 60s they were made to leave when the treaty was signed giving the land to Mexico. They all had to move out. Absolutely NONE of them complained. They all moved on to better homes and lived great lives.
There is "RINO" and there is "DINO". During that time the state and national republicans were putting up candidates along the entire Rio Grande Valley to not put the "R" next to their name and some local republicans running for local or state office do it to this very day. Wardy was a DINO at that time who served a term after the Caballero revolt. Tom Craddick, former Texas Speaker of the House of Represenatives (03-09) did his darndest to make sure that El Paso (and the RG Valley) had pro Bush, pro conservative representation. But Craddick did throw some much needed infrastructure funds towards El Paso after the BRAC realignment and he eventually became sympathetic towards El Paso growth problems mainly because of BRAC.
Remember this classic photo from Bush SOTU 2006 address and of Democrat Rep. Cuellar (District 28;Texas Laredo) getting a smooch from Bush? He is very republican friendly and this has been a dilema for Texas democrats. Optics appear to show working more across the aisle in Texas.
Back to El Paso
El Paso then went back to the left to Cook then once again back to the right with Leeser. But with the city manager council style government, their power is pretty much clipped as pointed out. Leeser was for the downtown baseball stadium at the time because to him it was a voted for item despite the "keep city hall" pushback.
The city council the last few years has been seen as way to far left of center, especially by the consertatives. There is a strong push to disrupt downtown transformation, there is also a push to disrupt voter appoved city improvements. The renters will be getting a very nice deal and most renters in the arena footprint like the offer. Owners have to be paid market price. But hey, why do you want to give up your cash flow?
To me it's plain and simple fear and disruption from some opposing parties. There are some historical buildings downtown that should be preserved but the writing on the wall was put out years, perhaps if not decades ago. The arena dicussion itself goes back fifeteen to twenty years. The arena belongs downtown.
The hell with the Duranguito District, tear it down and build the Arena there, and the hell with those políticos corruptos del PRI. Let's get the PRI and the PAN out of EL Paso once and for all.
We need the arena. We voted for the arena and our vote deserves respect.
Put yourself in their shoes. What if you lived in an undesirable neighborhood in a home that couldn't pass an inspection and someone offered you more than market value to move?
I remember the arena talk 15 years ago. I even asked Joe Wardy about his position on it at a political gathering during his first campaign. (His response was, "We need an arena, and it needs to be downtown.")
What was driving the arena talk 15 years ago? Was it about concerts, or was El Paso trying to get an anchor tenant of some sort? Have things changed in the last 15 years? Why did the issue go dormant for over a decade?
What was driving the arena talk 15 years ago? Was it about concerts, or was El Paso trying to get an anchor tenant of some sort? Have things changed in the last 15 years? Why did the issue go dormant for over a decade?
Easy for me. My family on 13th Street had EXACTLY this happen to them. They all moved on and improved their lives.
IF this arena ever gets built, how would you like to see it to model itself after?
https://www.staplescenter.com
http://www.talkingstickresortarena.com
http://gilariverarena.com
http://www.attcenter.com
http://www.houstontoyotacenter.com
http://www.sprintcenter.com
http://www.unitedcenter.com
http://www.barclayscenter.com
http://www.thegarden.com
http://www.tdgarden.com
https://www.staplescenter.com
http://www.talkingstickresortarena.com
http://gilariverarena.com
http://www.attcenter.com
http://www.houstontoyotacenter.com
http://www.sprintcenter.com
http://www.unitedcenter.com
http://www.barclayscenter.com
http://www.thegarden.com
http://www.tdgarden.com
This is not looking good. Innuendos from local news is that it may go back on the ballot for location? Legal side is that the 2012 vote is binding on what the citizens wants. To me, it 's just political road blocks from opposition (and some from within the same party) to discredit this "to liberal" city council. There are right wing part candidates hitting my neighborhood pounding on doors.
What is the aim of the right-wing candidates? Do they want to sabotage the arena altogether so it doesn't get built? Do they want to build it in some other location? I consider myself right-wing, but I don't see any guiding philosophy in opposition to the arena. The people have voted for it and it seems the best for the city to build it downtown. What are these politicians saying when they pound on doors? I'd be interested to know their arguments.
Apply Eminent Domain ASAP do the Condemnation Procedure and Build the Arena in Downtown where the shitty duranguito district used to be. Do what must be done, do not hesitate, show no mercy.
Last edited:
If they plan on putting it on the ballot again and the location is not in downtown I will vote NO. This is getting ridiculous
The opposition to the Arena is probably not a right/left thing. It's being propagated by two bloggers: Rich Wright and Jud Burgess (Jud is even running for local office on an anti Arena ticket). They are both nice people but they both think they are being "Cool" by advocating for the "downtrodden" vs the "Evil Rich Developers" and "Evil Government Subsidizers". The Downtown was a desolate wasteland for decades because of shortsighted and unimaginative El Pasoans like them that stifled and strangled development in our city. We can't let them reverse the incredible progress being made downtown!
I've really been on the fence on this issue. I strongly support the arena and voted yaye on the bond, strongly assuming the arena would be built somewhere downtown. I also knew it would come with controversy. I can empathize with the Duranguito residents. Home is home, and roots are roots to some people. My parents, along with probably several hundred families (don't know the exact numbers) were effected by the Chamizal dispute in the early 1960's. As a result of the settlement with Mexico, hundreds of families were forced to relocate, with no choice whatsoever. We lived in a small neighborhood on Boone Street a few blocks south of the coliseum, bordered by Delta, Hammett, and the the old river (The Mexican Border). My first school, Navarro Elementary still stands, now part of Juarez, Mexico. Our house today would probably sit right in the middle of the Rio Grande where it runs by Boone Street today. These were not huge houses, no more than 2 to 3 bedrooms, probably 1 bath. But even as a 6 year old, I can recall how tight knit the neighborhood was. I'm sure that goes with all the other neighborhoods, as this effected everyone who lived from Boone Street to the east, on up to Bowie High (now present day Guillen) to the west, and bordered by Paisano. Anyone born after 1965 I'm sure has no recollection of this part of El Paso's history. Personally, I was just excited to be moving to a slightly bigger house and a new neighborhood, as I'm sure other kids around my age were. Looking back, I'm sure it effected homeowners and adults differently. For many, this was their first home, first friends. There were no cell phones or any type of social media, so you were losing your neighbor, your friend. Moving to another part of the city, you may as well have been moving to California. As a result, I can see the emotional response of Duranguito here.
My suggestion to the City Council and the people of Duranguito and those involved in trying to salvage it's future: Try working on a compromise, or a way to honor the Duranguito history. That I know of, nothing historical was lost when the Chamizal settlement forced the razing of hundreds of homes and whatever businesses stood back then. There are some buildings of Historical value where the arena is proposed to be built. Now I'm thinking way outside the box here, but maybe look into a way to incorporate a building or two, into the new arena. Not the whole building, but maybe the front of the building. It could be part of a specialty store inside the arena, or a part of the arena's facade itself. I know the arena will eventually have a corporate sponsor's name on it. Why not make it a mandate that "Duranguito" will be part of the arena's name? The such and such Duranguito Arena or Events Center?
This may help take some of the sting of losing one's home, and their identity. I agree now, that the Duranguito area is where the arena should go. No way should it go where Cohen is. And I live just a few miles from there, so it would be convenient for me. Time is money here. Precious money. So much of Duranguito will be razed...no need to raze through people's emotions while doing it.
My suggestion to the City Council and the people of Duranguito and those involved in trying to salvage it's future: Try working on a compromise, or a way to honor the Duranguito history. That I know of, nothing historical was lost when the Chamizal settlement forced the razing of hundreds of homes and whatever businesses stood back then. There are some buildings of Historical value where the arena is proposed to be built. Now I'm thinking way outside the box here, but maybe look into a way to incorporate a building or two, into the new arena. Not the whole building, but maybe the front of the building. It could be part of a specialty store inside the arena, or a part of the arena's facade itself. I know the arena will eventually have a corporate sponsor's name on it. Why not make it a mandate that "Duranguito" will be part of the arena's name? The such and such Duranguito Arena or Events Center?
This may help take some of the sting of losing one's home, and their identity. I agree now, that the Duranguito area is where the arena should go. No way should it go where Cohen is. And I live just a few miles from there, so it would be convenient for me. Time is money here. Precious money. So much of Duranguito will be razed...no need to raze through people's emotions while doing it.
Last edited:
They should put the arena in the rail yards. Duranguito needs to be kept a livable, pedestrian friendly area. Numerous studies have shown that arenas do not revitalize an area. The stadium has worked because it replaced city Hall. A neighborhood was not wiped away. The rail yards would be perfect because southern Pacific is living most of their operation to the Santa Teresa port of entry area anyway.
Dude, great post man. I thoroughly enjoyed the read, and your creative vision.
Wish I could buy you a beer for that one. Well said!
In my opinion the arena should be build on the Duranguito Area because it is close to the Civic Center and close to Southwest University Park. When I have passed through that area alI I see of historic is three old houses when you have a lot more old houses in other parts of El Paso like Sunset Heights, Montana etc. What they should build on the rails yards is an area similar to river walk in San Antonio, they could divert the Franklin Canal into that area and build a state of the art park with restaurants, bars, canals etc. That would turn El Paso into a awesome bad ass city. Perhaps they could build the arena close to that area, but not precisely on that area, between the area and right next to Downtown. Maybe build it where the Municipal Court building stands and the space in front, if three duranguito disctrict "old historic houses" stand in the way.
Last edited:
My bet is you will never see a downtown arena (or one anywhere else). I have lived in this town for over 50 years and I have seen this song and dance over and over. Yet another wasted opportunity by this "city". CLEAN THEM OUT! if you want change, or an arena or anything else a normal city this size should provide it's citizens. These folks in charge currently need to be removed, they cannot serve under pressure, make hard decisions that the voters of this city require. The ballpark process was painful and disruptive, but in the end I think it was highly beneficial to the city, citizens and downtown. Why can't the city and council take a lesson from that experience?
Never say never, I never ever expected to see the trolleys comeback to life and they're coming back, it is happening as we speak. I was a one year old baby when they stopped back in the early 70's so I'm excited about the project. I also didn't expect the Express Way 375 extension to take place and it is happening. Everything is possible, it's just a matter of having some guts.
I agree to a point, but those projects you mentioned were not beholden to the political will of the city council. The express way was really a state decision (and highly needed). The streetcars are funded by state and national grants, little was required from the city government and really had little or no opposition to either project (who doesn't want good roads and transport systems, and especially if local taxpayers don't have to pay for it all and it's a EASY decision for an elected official). The arena on the other hand is a project which will cost the local taxpayer, and the taxpayer agreed to it (majority). Some on city council do not have the will or desire to serve the majority, and instead have chosen to delay, change or remove themselves from the process to serve the voters and the citizens will, it requires them to make a HARD decision and they will refuse. This is nothing new for this city (been a resident for over 50 years). Mayors, council and most elected officials in EL Paso get elected and stay in office for what they don't do, not for what they accomplish. This is not a right or left, democrat or republican issue it is a simple case of elected officials not willing to take the responsibility of serving the citizen and what the citizen wants, they will only listen to the voter when it is convenient to do so, if any opposition emerges they fold faster than bad hand in poker, disappear or delay or utter the famous El Paso Government Motto "This really needs to be looked at closely or we need more time to study the issue". I expect a call for such a $300,000 study in the next 2 or 3 council meetings.
Totally agree. Thanks all!
I worked in a public county agency where the battle of downtown started to heat up in the 80's as developers, owners, politicians, and the citizenry were at odds. Finance districts were created, private deals with public backing were tried or vice versa, public offers were tried, a lot of ideas were tried. It got debated, it got ugly, it got tabled, it got politicized, it started political careers and ruined political careers. While this was playing out, the tax burden fell on the residential side of ad valorem revenue while politicians were dolling out abatements to commercial interests. You want to have a revenue generating downtown to shift tax burdens especially in a large growing city; this arena belongs downtown but yet treated with compassion.
FAKE NEWS---- El Paso, Texas- The city of El Paso today released information for a new downtown arena plan. The plan which has been in the works for two years and has cost the tax payers over 1 million and is the third such plan done since the voters agreed to a downtown arena ten years ago. The mayor heralded the plan as the most ambitious any city this size has undertaken, "It is a grand plan that this city and region can be proud of". The plan calls for any amount seating in which it can be configured to handle a crowd any size or for any venue. "I have viewed plans from most venues around the country, and our plan is the best of any city in the world" councilman B replied. "What I like about the plan is it's flexibility" councilman A stated and at 1 million cost to the taxpayer we kept costs of the plan low. The plan includes water fountains, areas for shopping and dining and even a small landing strip on top of the building for small aircraft. When asked for a timeline on the construction of the arena the mayor simple stated "To be honest, I don't think our intent was ever to build an arena, that would be difficult given our community and economic situation here in El Paso, but you have to admit it's a Dam fine plan!"
According to this week's El Paso Inc., the City now has purchase agreements in place with all but one of the 22 Property Owners in the Durango Neighborhood. Most of these property owners are thrilled to have a buyer for their rundown buildings. El Pasoans voted for this arena with a 70% majority, Four different Surveys(which cost millions of dollars) said that this neighborhood is the best location for the Arena, and 95% of the Property Owners in this neighborhood are in agreement to sell their property. So why do some City Council and Mayoral Candidates back down to a vocal minority who don't even have ownership in the neighborhood?
http://www.elpasoinc.com/news/local_news/article_028904c4-2908-11e7-818b-5f0c8621de11.html?mode=jqm
http://www.elpasoinc.com/news/local_news/article_028904c4-2908-11e7-818b-5f0c8621de11.html?mode=jqm
Last edited:
