Not to knock religion as I'm religious. However, more Americans go to church than other nations. If this was a crisis a faith you'd see a lot more attacks in more secular nations.
OT: El Paso Mass Shooting
- Thread starter JCorona
- Start date
That’s a fair point, but at the same time I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that our values as a nation are all jacked up. It just seems like in the last 15-20 years, especially in a world with social media that God forbid people have an honest conversation about anything. You’re “pro-this” or “anti-that” you’re trashed either way and from the top down it’s all become a shit show.
I get sick of these politicians taking their stance. Saying something needs to be done without offering what that something is. Or saying its mental health, blaming racism, etc...
Everyone knows that the only solution is to abolish the 2nd amendment. Which cannot be done because politicians are sworn in to protect the constitution.
We live in a blame culture where all these talking heads want an emphatic take that the media hopefully latches in to. The unfortunate truth is that this is a complicated issue that there are no reasonable solutions for.
Everyone knows that the only solution is to abolish the 2nd amendment. Which cannot be done because politicians are sworn in to protect the constitution.
We live in a blame culture where all these talking heads want an emphatic take that the media hopefully latches in to. The unfortunate truth is that this is a complicated issue that there are no reasonable solutions for.
My only issue with abolishing the 2nd amendment is are we addressing the human aspect of the problem? Will that alone stop these things from happening, because that guy like the vast majority of shooters aren’t right.
It’s a lot like the drug problem in this country, we pass laws, we get tougher on drugs, heck they even legalize other things but they don’t address (or even know how to address for that matter) the fact that there are f*cked up people who want to do drugs and get messed up and they don’t care about the consequences. So ultimately you may be stopping the supply, but are you stopping the demand?
But either way, if you believe that abolishing the 2nd amendment is what needs to be done or vise versa the sad thing is that NOTHING will change and no progress will be made towards a solution because no one wants to work together.
You don't need to abolish or even amend the 2nd amendment. We do thorough searches at airports despite the 4th amendment. People can't make threats despite the 1st amendment.
Our country can make very minor gun laws, leaving most of the status quo in tact. However, any law is met with the hyperbolic response that this is the start gun confiscations.
The gunman wrote he was worried about the heat coming from his ak after firing 100 rounds. Who needs 100 rapid fire rounds. One rule, no rapid fire automatic guns. Keep everything else the same. If a crazy guy wants to shoot up a place let him do it with handguns and shotguns. You'd have less death. Maybe half. Still terrible, less terrible.
We're like the Greeks blaming Zeus for the harvest. It's a superstition that this is hard. We're just not willing to modify our culture, our politics, our gun laws, our mental health system. It's not hard. Don't promote hatred for ratings, don't polarize the nation, don't put the gun lobbies above the people, invest in mental health, don't sell guns to nuts.
My intention was to say the only acceptable solution is to abolish the 2nd amendment.
Meaning that until we abolish it there will always be that loud faction of people who protest and speak out until they get what they want.
But that's not my personal stance. I agree with you guys.
Meaning that until we abolish it there will always be that loud faction of people who protest and speak out until they get what they want.
But that's not my personal stance. I agree with you guys.
In my opinion,
All politics and religion aside, EVERYBODY knows it is wrong to kill. This is not a new idea. I'm of the mindset that nobody is to blame but the shooter himself. He is the source whether persuaded or not. Of course there are people that encourage and teach these acts, but i can't circumvent the fact that ultimately he made the final decision to pull the trigger and murder innocent people. If the manifest was actually written by him, then he gave us good insight into his hateful mindset.
So how do we fix this? Well the honest answer is that we can't in that regard. We can't force others to think or feel a certain way. What we can do is show love and acceptance ourselves and hope that permeates to our friends, families and the next generation. We can also try to help those that are mentally strained, debilitated or homocidal/suicidal by ramping up mental health efforts. Also and probably more urgently, if reducing access to ways and means of killing multiple inocent people is feasible in the U.S., then I think common sense says let's do it by changing gun laws to limit access and capacity. We can still preserve our rights and still have the capacity to defend ourselves when needed.
All politics and religion aside, EVERYBODY knows it is wrong to kill. This is not a new idea. I'm of the mindset that nobody is to blame but the shooter himself. He is the source whether persuaded or not. Of course there are people that encourage and teach these acts, but i can't circumvent the fact that ultimately he made the final decision to pull the trigger and murder innocent people. If the manifest was actually written by him, then he gave us good insight into his hateful mindset.
So how do we fix this? Well the honest answer is that we can't in that regard. We can't force others to think or feel a certain way. What we can do is show love and acceptance ourselves and hope that permeates to our friends, families and the next generation. We can also try to help those that are mentally strained, debilitated or homocidal/suicidal by ramping up mental health efforts. Also and probably more urgently, if reducing access to ways and means of killing multiple inocent people is feasible in the U.S., then I think common sense says let's do it by changing gun laws to limit access and capacity. We can still preserve our rights and still have the capacity to defend ourselves when needed.
To keep saying this is a mental problem is gaslighting all the victims. This is domestic terrorism executed by a racist.
People that kill (of any race, religion or political ideology) are mentally unstable in my opinion. They are also not a reflection of the whole. I think you may agree in that regard at least. I agree that all the evidence so far says this was a racist act of domestic violence by a white supremacist. By no means am I disregarding that or the victims and their families. I also gave ways and means of trying to help the problem. I dont know exactly how it can be done, but we need to do what we can as individuals.
Chris Rock said in one of his old specials that The US has a “Gang mentality” and the more I think about it there’s a lot of truth to that. Anyone should be able to believe whatever they want to believe..... but the fact that people have to resort to such violence really is like some gang bullshit. It’s ridiculous.
The use of violence to defend any sort of belief definitely extends beyond race, religion etc. Just look at sports. I get the impression that the vast majority of us on this message board are level headed adults, but how many times to you see people get overly aggressive because they hate your team. As I’ve gotten older I have learned to realize how stupid that is but a lot of people don’t know how to just say “Fair enough” and walk away.
This really got me thinking about that Kai Locksley situation again. If what happened really did happen I’m glad that no one was hurt in that situation and cooler heads did prevail. It wouldn’t have been worth shooting someone and doing all that damage over some bullshit.
The use of violence to defend any sort of belief definitely extends beyond race, religion etc. Just look at sports. I get the impression that the vast majority of us on this message board are level headed adults, but how many times to you see people get overly aggressive because they hate your team. As I’ve gotten older I have learned to realize how stupid that is but a lot of people don’t know how to just say “Fair enough” and walk away.
This really got me thinking about that Kai Locksley situation again. If what happened really did happen I’m glad that no one was hurt in that situation and cooler heads did prevail. It wouldn’t have been worth shooting someone and doing all that damage over some bullshit.
I don’t know if there can be a resolution where there is such division. The divide only seems to be widening with people lining up on both sides yelling louder and louder at each other across an invisible chasm.
Look at any forum in regards to this, and the countless other tragedies that continue to cripple this country, and it’s easy to see that we are all just dogs barking into the wind.
I know there are well meaning people who think they have rational and logical answers but if those answers are not heard and reflected upon by those to whom the message is intended, it’s just hollow rhetoric. Doesn’t matter how “right” you are if the only people hearing you are the ones who already agree with you in the first place.
We are so fractured as a nation and there are no certainties or guarantees that we will ever come together and unite. That is a bitter pill to swallow because the alternative is a picture that will only get uglier over time. I agree that for things to change, action must follow idea, but if I’m honest, I’ll be the first to admit that I have no idea what will help resolve the condition we find ourselves in. <long sigh>
Look at any forum in regards to this, and the countless other tragedies that continue to cripple this country, and it’s easy to see that we are all just dogs barking into the wind.
I know there are well meaning people who think they have rational and logical answers but if those answers are not heard and reflected upon by those to whom the message is intended, it’s just hollow rhetoric. Doesn’t matter how “right” you are if the only people hearing you are the ones who already agree with you in the first place.
We are so fractured as a nation and there are no certainties or guarantees that we will ever come together and unite. That is a bitter pill to swallow because the alternative is a picture that will only get uglier over time. I agree that for things to change, action must follow idea, but if I’m honest, I’ll be the first to admit that I have no idea what will help resolve the condition we find ourselves in. <long sigh>
This is a question for the older members on the board. I wasn’t alive in the 60s, but that seems like a bad time with civil rights, Kennedy and MLK getting killed and Kent St and Vietnam. Was the political/social divide as bad then?
Maybe that is part of the solution, but there are so many issues at play here that we need many changes.
Issues only we have. Mass shootings are an American problem. 90% of them happen here. They happen here. And we act like it's so hard. We're a 500 pound guy who eats at Golden Corral 5 times a day, wondering why we're fat. Are we the only country with mental health issues? No.
We have a for profit media that pumps both sides up for profit. We can change that, that only started in the 80s when they ended the both sides rule. Hey when did politics get especially heated? At that time.
We legalized bribery in politics, making any simplistic reform near impossible.
I don't believe in term limits, but sure let's try it.
Open primaries so that the crazies don't pick the craziest left winger and the craziest right winger.
Limit capacity in weapons.
But no, it's impossible. So hard, so hard, a mystery.
Don't be too surprised when talk includes putting more limits on the first amendment, specifically the right to free speech. Rights carry responsibilities. Some people have the rights part down good but have no clue about responsibilities.
No, homie. Your god did nothing to prevent this. This is not a god issue. This is a gun issue.
Yes. And back then we were fighting FOR those same civil rights that these white nationalist neo-nazis are trying to take away from us. And it's exacerbated by the white nationalist racist bigot Tяump using his platform to rile them up and send them out to do these mass killings.
You cannot support a president that emboldens and supports violence against Mexican Americans. don't sit on the sidelines and say this is everyone's problem. White people aren't being hunted down. Pulled over and held for no legitimate reason or asked for their papers. It's time to choose up sides and stop straddling the fence.
Well, the good thing is that he's finally serious about going after the industry responsible for all this.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/texas-l...e-we-going-to-ignore-the-video-game-industry/
Really, this guy is an absolute clown and it's just sad he represents this state.
But, but, this is so complicated. An act of nature, no one can explain.
A country with the easiest access to high capacity weapons has the most shootings? Impossible!
A country that has the president calling immigrants "Invaders" has hate crime? Never!
A country that has 24/7 fear mongering from Fox and news radio has an anger issue? I'm shoked! Liberlz have NPR right? They're the same thing right? Its both sides, it's impossible to figure out.
Thoughts and prayers. Jesus. Stop violent video games. I don't agree completely with your proposals, but I have no proposals
So inaction is best and maybe this new set of prayers will work.
I'll stop. I'm p**** we are still experiencing mass shootings. I'm p*** they only happen in this country. I'm pissed the country would rather have this happen more than pass laws. Guess what, if the laws don't work reverse them. Try to do something. But nothing will ever change until REPUBLICANS say, I'm a REPUBLICAN and I DEMAND action, I DEMAND sensible gun reform. I DEMAND my President not revel in riling his crowds up. That's when things change. Only then.
Yes, Democrats aren't perfect, go ahead and talk about inner cities. I just want Republican help in this one, entirely preventable issue.
Yes, Democrats aren't perfect, go ahead and talk about inner cities. I just want Republican help in this one, entirely preventable issue.
Fully agree that’s the only way things will change. I have a hard time picturing that happening on a large enough scale any time soon.
Here lies the problem. I’m a republican and have no hate in my heart. I will gladly support any person who has common sense and wants to help the middle class . But to those of you who blame this on just the Republicans I call BS. If liberals are so damn perfect explain Antifia, college riots over speakers, the belief to kill millions of unborn children. We all have different beliefs, but violence shouldn’t be one of them.
And yes I have always been for stricter gun laws especially a ban on assault rifles. This needs to be passed now.
I said Liberals are not perfect. I keep saying it. However, those problems shouldn't stop us from working together on very limited gun legislation. Maybe just universal, standardized background checks and limits on capacity. Not retroactive, from now one. Monitor hate group sites better.
All that other stuff is just minor details we can iron out later. But the pattern I see from BOTH parties is, "we can't solve this problem we all see because we don't like how you feel about x issue, so let's forget about the thing we agree on and fight about that".
It’s time to work together and but the egos in the closet.
Much more of this hatred towards the two parties and our country is going to implode.
Much more of this hatred towards the two parties and our country is going to implode.
Hard to be hopeful when nothing happened after elementary school kids were killed at Sandy Hook.
No bs, sometimes I feel like we need a common enemy. Where’s The Soviet Union of the 80s when you need them? Just sitting behind their iron curtain and sending pro hockey/basketball players to the olympics.
One of the truest things ever written. Now Trump wants to pair gun laws with new immigration laws. Basically, the shooter would get what he wants.
This crisis on the border likely not going to be over any time soon, at least from a congressional standpoint. Several Democratic lawmakers told me that there is almost no chance of Congress tackling the loopholes in our immigration system before the next election, meaning this crisis—more than 100,000 people crossing the border each of the last four months now—is going to continue for at least another year and a half, if not more.
Unfortunately, at that very moment, Fox was forced to cut away from the reporter they’d sent to El Paso, Texas, to make the case that the United States was facing an unsustainable influx of immigrants to report the breaking story that a young man had concluded that the United States was facing an unsustainable influx of immigrants and traveled to El Paso, Texas, to take matters into his own hands.
This crisis on the border likely not going to be over any time soon, at least from a congressional standpoint. Several Democratic lawmakers told me that there is almost no chance of Congress tackling the loopholes in our immigration system before the next election, meaning this crisis—more than 100,000 people crossing the border each of the last four months now—is going to continue for at least another year and a half, if not more.
Unfortunately, at that very moment, Fox was forced to cut away from the reporter they’d sent to El Paso, Texas, to make the case that the United States was facing an unsustainable influx of immigrants to report the breaking story that a young man had concluded that the United States was facing an unsustainable influx of immigrants and traveled to El Paso, Texas, to take matters into his own hands.
Here's a response.
Antifa = Anti fascism. It's a response to fascists like Tяump and his cultist white supremacists who have been given the green light by Tяump at his rallies to attack at will. It's a response when people of color, LGBT, immigrants, and others tire of getting killed or beaten physically simply because they are not white and decide to fight back.
"We all have different beliefs but violence shouldn't be one of them."
Antifa is a response to your side's hatred, bigotry, and violence. Need a reference? How about Charlottesville. Or El Paso. The reference list is endless.
You claim that republicans shouldn't be blamed? Why not? You bring up abortion. You want to be able to control a woman's body because republican? You care about "unborn" children while separating *born* children from their parents and throwing them into cages like animals and then look away when those children die because they lack the most basic of life's needs, most importantly, their PARENTS. You even deny these children soap and toothpaste.
Why? Because republican.
So I call BULLSHIT on you and all republicans who claim they give a shit about children -- you don't. You support, enable, and defend a racist, bigoted, white supremacist, credibly accused rapist president. To quote Lindsey Graham, Tяump is a "race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot." And yet, he is now one of Tяump's most ardent defenders.
Why? Because republican.
You can dislike or not support the president all you want, but pitting race vs race by choosing sides is exactly what this terrorist wanted. Feeding the fire is definitely not the answer.
This is what TЯUMP wants. But I don't have to pick my side. MORALS and CHARACTER and LOVE and CARING picked my side for me.
Those who still support this ... this ... I can't even find a good word to describe the abomination in the White House ... are on the wrong side of history and will be judged harshly. And they likely don't care. If they had any sense of right from wrong, good from bad, they would have turned to the good side long ago. That they haven't says all we need to know about them.
Fact is that it was a hate crime on a race of people and domestic terrorism. The scary thing is that while we mourn for our losses in what was an innocent community, there are some sick FK's who no doubt applaud the actions of this Monster. This is because there has always been hate and fear from these white supremacists. However they now feel emboldened to come back out of their caves and have a voice. A voice that now is turning into action and murder. It's not a Republican vs Democratic thing. It's a Hate and Racist thing. These fires are being stoked by the President and his party and that has to stop!!!! Saw a rally where someone yelled Shoot the Immigrants and Trump laughed. This shows the sick nature of these people and Trump's refusal to denounce such hatefulness and even support it. Trump may not be the exact cause, but he is the enabler to this horrific act that was brought on our city.
