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OT: MLS/Liga joint league??

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I don’t see this working for several reasons.

1: What is the incentive for MLS to create a joint league Liga MX? If what this owner says is true and MLS is more profitable and has a more sustainable business model, the ball is in their court as to whether or not they want to do make something like this a reality. Why would they create a super league when they can add more MLS teams in places like San Antonio, and Phoenix. If they were to create a league with every Liga MX club would that make financial sense for the league?

2: If Liga MX were to agree to a joint league with MLS it would almost certainly have to agree to a players union which Liga MX has resisted up to this point. That’s why many players leave Mexico and never return. They would also have to get rid of the Pacto de Caballeros.

Personally I don’t think MLS would agree to a joint super league. Yes, the league isn’t great but it’s growing steadily. They’re managing to bring in talent that may not be young and in their prime, but successful players who are still serviceable and who can make an impact. Chicharito, Vela, Zlatan, Sebastian Giovinco a couple years back. It will never be The EPL or La Liga but it’s certainly a strong possibility it could become bigger and stronger than Liga MX.

Now... hypothetically speaking if this were to happen and a merger does happen and you’re the Juarez FC owners do you look into moving your team across the border? It’s possible that wouldn’t be an issue if they’re all in the same league.
 
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The short answer is tv ratings and the Hispanic American market. Liga MX has it MLS needs it to secure a big money tv contract. For comparison, the MLS cup final last season drew a tv audience of 1.2 million. A third of those views were on Univision. The Liga MX final drew a tv audience of 3.3 million. That’s not counting the huge numbers that game did in Mexico. (Manchester United vs Liverpool drew a tv audience north of 3.4 in the UK) That same weekend the big clash between Barcelona and Real Madrid didn’t even the make top 20 of most watched soccer games of the week in the USA. Indicating the audience was probably around 200k. Liga MX is the most popular and most watched soccer league in the USA. They have a lot of problems too but if this partnership works out both leagues will make a lot more money than they do now. If they do it right the money can rival one of the top 5 leagues in the world.
 
UTEPMiners8106 said:
1: What is the incentive for MLS to create a joint league Liga MX?
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To improve the level of competition. If American soccer is to raise the bar in international competition, I think they also need to raise the bar in domestic competition.

UTEPMiners8106 said:
Now... hypothetically speaking if this were to happen and a merger does happen and you’re the Juarez FC owners do you look into moving your team across the border? It’s possible that wouldn’t be an issue if they’re all in the same league.
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Hell no. Why make the fans cross an international border to attend? They could hold a couple of matches a season in El Paso as a gimmick, but actually moving the team north of the border would alienate the fans.
 
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I’ve read the new Bravos stadium is suppose to have an entrance from the American side.
 
JCorona said:
The short answer is tv ratings and the Hispanic American market. Liga MX has it MLS needs it to secure a big money tv contract. For comparison, the MLS cup final last season drew a tv audience of 1.2 million. A third of those views were on Univision. The Liga MX final drew a tv audience of 3.3 million. That’s not counting the huge numbers that game did in Mexico. (Manchester United vs Liverpool drew a tv audience north of 3.4 in the UK) That same weekend the big clash between Barcelona and Real Madrid didn’t even the make top 20 of most watched soccer games of the week in the USA. Indicating the audience was probably around 200k. Liga MX is the most popular and most watched soccer league in the USA. They have a lot of problems too but if this partnership works out both leagues will make a lot more money than they do now. If they do it right the money can rival one of the top 5 leagues in the world.
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For Liga MX I absolutely understand why this makes sense. The National Team and Liga MX always play games in The US because they are more profitable. Plus if you’re an owner of a team in the top division you will solidify your top division standing forever because it sounds like they want to get rid of relegation. But if you’re MLS why does this deal make sense? Yes, MLS is not super profitable but at the same time Liga MX seems to have more financial problems. Veracruz just went under, Chiapas was sold and moved to Queretaro , San Luis was sold and moved to Chiapas and was Atlético San Luis was formed in its place. Juarez has folded twice in the last 30 years. Lobos BUAP is no more because they were sold to Juarez. Tecos was sold years ago as well and they were later reformed and they’re in some trash division.

MLS has slowly and prudently built a business model that has lead to them being almost equal to Liga MX. If they were to combine that would not guarantee a better league. We should know, we lived through a gigantic WAC in the 90s that was too bottom heavy.

Not to mention there is NO WAY in hell Liga MX or MLS, separate or together could become a top 5 league. Argentina and Brazil are miles ahead of both leagues, and I don’t see them overtaking them any time soon. European leagues and those clubs are institutions and they have ungoldly amounts of money and prestige that we will never match. I don’t care how good of a TV deal you have. Europe has tons of basketball leagues and they can’t touch the NBA, and the same with Asia and their baseball leagues. MLS and Liga MX are in the same boat when it comes to Europe. There is no way in hell you're going to compete with their money, their prestige.
 
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https://www.sportingintelligence.co...join-worlds-top-10-leagues-by-revenue-120601/

MLS is already generating as much revenue per team as Liga MX. That is great considering the league was losing money hand over fist when it first started. For them to become a top 5 league, solely on a financial level they would have to generate triple the revenue per team. But that doesn’t guarantee you’re going to attract/keep prime talent. Right now Ligue 1 is number 5 and the only reason PSG is dominating is because they have middle eastern owners who spend money like it’s going to rot. Even then there’s talk of Mbappe and Neymar leaving because Real Madrid and Barcelona are calling.
 
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Both leagues would benefit from such a move if not they wouldn’t be discussing it and formed a partnership. We can argue about who’s in better position and who could do it on their own better but the experts think this move is the appropriate way to make North American soccer compete with Europe.
 
JCorona said:
Both leagues would benefit from such a move if not they wouldn’t be discussing it and formed a partnership. We can argue about who’s in better position and who could do it on their own better but the experts think this move is the appropriate way to make North American soccer compete with Europe.
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Im calling it now, and you can quote me: MLS will NEVER compete with Europe’s. And you know what? That’s ok. The Japanese baseball league isn’t MLB and Greek basketball isn’t The NBA. The EPL makes more than The NBA, and some of these teams are backed by billionaires who spend money like it’s going to rot. Look at PSG. They paid over 300 million dollars to sign Neymar and Mbappe and there is a distinct possibility they are going to leave for Spain in the next two years. Those leagues do have financially fair play, which stops bigger clubs from outspending smaller clubs to a degree. But they still find ways around it and they spend tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for one player. These leagues will always have the financial clout to destroy smaller leagues. That’s like saying The XFL could one day compete with The NFL.
 
NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
It would be huge for Juarez from a money standpoint. Not sure their fans are going to be flooding the stadium to see Houston Dynamo and San Jose Earthquakes.

El Paso will never get one, not now, not ever.
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This would make MLS and soccer even bigger. This move would put Soccer over MLB . This would put more money into soccer and maybe bring better players over to the states. MLS would need another southwest team. It would be between Phoenix, Albuquerque, and El Paso . I think it would be Phoenix that gets it.
 
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UTEPMiners8106 said:
Im calling it now, and you can quote me: MLS will NEVER compete with Europe’s. And you know what? That’s ok. The Japanese baseball league isn’t MLB and Greek basketball isn’t The NBA. The EPL makes more than The NBA, and some of these teams are backed by billionaires who spend money like it’s going to rot. Look at PSG. They paid over 300 million dollars to sign Neymar and Mbappe and there is a distinct possibility they are going to leave for Spain in the next two years. Those leagues do have financially fair play, which stops bigger clubs from outspending smaller clubs to a degree. But they still find ways around it and they spend tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for one player. These leagues will always have the financial clout to destroy smaller leagues. That’s like saying The XFL could one day compete with The NFL.
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What Europe doesnt have that America has is Los Angeles's and New York City . America has the money to compete they just need the players to come. This move would give MLS a better TV contract. This move makes sense for both countries.
 
I’m telling you this and you can quote me: Combining MLS and Liga MX is like combining C-USA and The Sun Belt. You’re not creating The SEC. Yes we have Los Angeles and New York. But you know what the rest of the world has? London, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Liverpool, Manchester, Milan, Munich and so on. For any league here to compete with the top leagues abroad you would have to get overseas rights and it’s not reasonable to think some English People or Italians or Spanish people are going to stop supporting their league to watch La FC vs Pumas. Do you understand the absurd level of talent MLS would have to attract to watch that? We all love UTEP, and has anyone consistently watched Randy Culpepper play in Europe? That’s the same thing you are asking of the rest of the world.
 
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UTEPMiners8106 said:
Im calling it now, and you can quote me: MLS will NEVER compete with Europe’s. And you know what? That’s ok. The Japanese baseball league isn’t MLB and Greek basketball isn’t The NBA. The EPL makes more than The NBA, and some of these teams are backed by billionaires who spend money like it’s going to rot. Look at PSG. They paid over 300 million dollars to sign Neymar and Mbappe and there is a distinct possibility they are going to leave for Spain in the next two years. Those leagues do have financially fair play, which stops bigger clubs from outspending smaller clubs to a degree. But they still find ways around it and they spend tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for one player. These leagues will always have the financial clout to destroy smaller leagues. That’s like saying The XFL could one day compete with The NFL.
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You could be right. I use to think the same way. I actually got into a nice argument with minerforlife about it on here. All it really takes is a big tv contract for the mls to catch up to Brazil and China. Liga MX has shown they can go toe to toe with the tv ratings of Europe’s biggest clubs. On the field not much separated Liverpool from Monterrey during the World Club Cup. I know it seems unreal but North American soccer can climb into the top five. The next tv contract will dictate if the move is ever possible. I imagine that’s why they want Liga MX and the ratings that come with it.
 
FiliUTEP said:
This would make MLS and soccer even bigger. This move would put Soccer over MLB . This would put more money into soccer and maybe bring better players over to the states. MLS would need another southwest team. It would be between Phoenix, Albuquerque, and El Paso . I think it would be Phoenix that gets it.
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I’m not saying it’s not good for soccer, but I don’t think it will happen. Just like in my post above, Juarez fans don’t give a shit about the Earthquakes and vice versa. Unless the Galaxy is coming to town with Chicharito, who cares. FC Cincinnati fans aren’t going to Juarez or Atlas matches over Atlanta or Galaxy matches. TV money and possibly building for 20 years later would be the only reason to do it.

El Paso has no shot, zero, none. El Paso needs big business, higher paying jobs, more white people, less spanish, and less poor Mexicans before they are a desired market. Those are facts.
 
NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
I’m not saying it’s not good for soccer, but I don’t think it will happen. Just like in my post above, Juarez fans don’t give a shit about the Earthquakes and vice versa. Unless the Galaxy is coming to town with Chicharito, who cares. FC Cincinnati fans aren’t going to Juarez or Atlas matches over Atlanta or Galaxy matches. TV money and possibly building for 20 years later would be the only reason to do it.

El Paso has no shot, zero, none. El Paso needs big business, higher paying jobs, more white people, less spanish, and less poor Mexicans before they are a desired market. Those are facts.
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Lol. That’s why the mls wants to add 18 markets that have very little of everything you mentioned. El Paso wouldn’t get a team because they would merge El Paso/Juarez into one market.
 
JCorona said:
You could be right. I use to think the same way. I actually got into a nice argument with minerforlife about it on here. All it really takes is a big tv contract for the mls to catch up to Brazil and China. Liga MX has shown they can go toe to toe with the tv ratings of Europe’s biggest clubs. On the field not much separated Liverpool from Monterrey during the World Club Cup. I know it seems unreal but North American soccer can climb into the top five. The next tv contract will dictate if the move is ever possible. I imagine that’s why they want Liga MX and the ratings that come with it.
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Ok. If MLS catches up to Brazil and Argentina, you know what we’ll be? A feeder league. They don’t buy players in their prime. Yes some players stay but when Europe calls you listen.
I know there are some soccer fans here on this board. US soccer and Mexican soccer is very poor quality compared to the rest of the world. There has been talk of merging CONCACAF and COMEBOL to create a super league for WC qualifying but that would surely benefit clubs like Chile, Columbia, etc because there’s a strong chance they would beat out clubs like The US and Mexico. Hell The US couldn’t beat a scrub Trinidad and Tobago team in 2017. Mexico needed a US win in stoppage to qualify last go around. Look, it’s ok to admit we’re not the best soccer country, and it’s not a big sport. It’s ok. A TV contract is not going to fix it. China has zillionaires funding their league and they make more money than MLS and Liga MX, but you know what? It’s always going to be a trash league because they’re also using tons of trash Chinese players. MLS and Liga MX will always have a majority of trash American players and Mexican players. Most of the time someone tells me soccer sucks I always tell them to watch The EPL or one of the top divisions. The level of play is light years ahead of North America. To have a top league you have to have A TON of money but you also have to groom top domestic talent.

What you guys think is that just because we get a new tv contract everyone will come. The reality is it will not happen. Imagine some people on a Spanish basketball board going “If we get that new TV contract we could rival The NBA. Remember when Real Madrid played toe to toe with The La Lakers in a friendly? We’re that good.” We’d laugh.
 
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JCorona said:
Lol. That’s why the mls wants to add 18 markets that have very little of everything you mentioned. El Paso wouldn’t get a team because they would merge El Paso/Juarez into one market.
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It’s different. Those are pre-existing franchises in LigaMX. It’s just like the Green Bay Packers being in the NFL. Green Bay is only there because they have been there forever. GB doesn’t have any other pro sports and never will.

This MLS/LigaMX super league will probably never get another Mexican franchise. An Atlas vs Juarez match will not be televised on ESPN in English. Maybe Chivas vs America, but not the bottom teams. The goal is to get people in Mexico City to watch MLS. Mexicans in Wisconsin already watch America games on Univision
 
The powers in Europe will NEVER let MLS or Liga MX become a power. The money and power they wield along with FIFA would make it an impossibility. Look at college athletics. UTEP gets a good coach. A Barbee or a Billy G. They get good? A bigger club comes in with a shit ton of cash and buys them and we’re back to the rebuild. Soccer is the same way. Unless you’re Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona and maybe a couple of other clubs you’re selling players because if you don’t all they have to do is wait for their contract to run out and leave for free. MLS and Liga MX will never have the financial clout and power to convince a player to stay and not go to Europe and not play in The Champions League or for a prestigious club like Real Madrid or Barcelona. We couldn’t stop Barbee from going to Auburn for God’s sake. PSG is rich as hell and it’s almost a given Mbappe will go to Real Madrid. If you’re the owners and he has two years left on his contract you’re better off selling him for 150 million plus as opposed to letting his contract go and you get 0 in return. The economics of soccer work way different than any pro sport in The US. US leagues would have to have a HELL of a lot lot of prestige and pull and even more money to convince top young talent to not leave to Europe. And I’m talking if we were a top 5 league.
 
NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
It’s different. Those are pre-existing franchises in LigaMX. It’s just like the Green Bay Packers being in the NFL. Green Bay is only there because they have been there forever. GB doesn’t have any other pro sports and never will.

This MLS/LigaMX super league will probably never get another Mexican franchise. An Atlas vs Juarez match will not be televised on ESPN in English. Maybe Chivas vs America, but not the bottom teams. The goal is to get people in Mexico City to watch MLS. Mexicans in Wisconsin already watch America games on Univision
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I’ve already seen Liga MX games broadcast in English through Fox.

Let’s says FIFA approves the merger and ESPN buys the tv rights at 300 million. You really think there won’t be any Liga MX games shown in English on ESPN?

If Juarez is on the top half of the table they will be broadcast on tv.
 
I view MLS/Liga MX the exact way I look at UTEP. The amount of money you would need to turn UTEP into a Notre Dame, Alabama or a Texas doesn’t exist. Unless you have a genie who can wish you an infinite amount of money it’s not practical. What UTEP can do is slowly build itself into a consistent winner, build up a solid fan base and donor base. Then maybe, just maybe we have an outside chance of hitting on something once in a while.
 
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JCorona said:
I’ve already seen Liga MX games broadcast in English through Fox.

Let’s says FIFA approves the merger and ESPN buys the tv rights at 300 million. You really think there won’t be any Liga MX games shown in English on ESPN?

If Juarez is on the top half of the table they will be broadcast on tv.
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Yes, I believe Santos and Tijuana both show their home games on FS1. You can track down the ratings for em, I can assure you they’re not very good.

There would be games in English, but mostly Chivas, America and other known teams. FC Juarez is not one of those. Not at this time, probably never will be
 
NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
Yes, I believe Santos and Tijuana both show their home games on FS1. You can track down the ratings for em, I can assure you they’re not very good.

There would be games in English, but mostly Chivas, America and other known teams. FC Juarez is not one of those. Not at this time, probably never will be
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America and Chivas have historically carried Liga MX in terms of revenue and ratings. There is a lot of dead weight in Liga MX which is why they’ve had such disarray at the lower parts of the table and in the 2nd division. We should know too because Juarez is on their 3rd team.
 
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UTEPMiners8106 said:
I view MLS/Liga MX the exact way I look at UTEP. The amount of money you would need to turn UTEP into a Notre Dame, Alabama or a Texas doesn’t exist. Unless you have a genie who can wish you an infinite amount of money it’s not practical. What UTEP can do is slowly build itself into a consistent winner, build up a solid fan base and donor base. Then maybe, just maybe we have an outside chance of hitting on something once in a while.
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I see them more like the AAC/MW. The 7 million per year isn’t as good as the 40 million the P5 make but the top teams in the MW/AAC can bang with anyone in the P5. Combine the MW/AAC and it might never be a P5 but it will better than what they were apart.
 
Besides, Saturday nights in the fall are for college football on ESPN, not soccer. In the spring, Saturdays are for college basketball, not soccer. To think ESPN is going to bump a USC vs UCLA football game or a Duke vs North Carolina basketball game to show Chivas vs Leon is ridiculous.
 
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JCorona said:
I see them more like the AAC/MW. The 7 million per year isn’t as good as the 40 million the P5 make but the top teams in the MW/AAC can bang with anyone in the P5. Combine the MW/AAC and it might never be a P5 but it will better than what they were apart.
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And you know what? That’s probably the best MLS can ever be and I’m talking best case scenario. Maybe you can have a Boca Juniors type team that can compete with Europe once in a while. What will hold us back from accomplishing that is the fact that US leagues have salary caps and they want parity. For every Boca or River Plate, there is every other team who is trash and will never win a thing. For every America or Chivas Guadalajara in Mexico they’re is a Chiapas, Cobras or UAG.

Also don’t forget. Every country that has a “Top League” has won a World Cup And is consistency one of the top international sides in the world. Spain, France, England, Argentina, Brazil. If you have a top league you will probably have a top domestic league because of the talent you are grooming. It’s not enough to have tons of cash, you have to develop great domestic players because they make up the bulk of your players.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
Yes, I believe Santos and Tijuana both show their home games on FS1. You can track down the ratings for em, I can assure you they’re not very good.

There would be games in English, but mostly Chivas, America and other known teams. FC Juarez is not one of those. Not at this time, probably never will be
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Looked them up and they drew 641,000. That same week USMNT played Cuba on FS1 and only drew 233,000 viewers. More people (459,000) watched that game in Spanish on Univision.

The answer is tv ratings. Liga MX brings more eyeballs to the league.
 
JCorona said:
Looked them up and they drew 641,000. That same week USMNT played Cuba on FS1 and only drew 233,000 viewers. More people (459,000) watched that game in Spanish on Univision.

The answer is tv ratings. Liga MX brings more eyeballs to the league.
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Which game drew 641,000? What day of the week was it on? What day of the week was the Cuba game?
 
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UTEPMiners8106 said:
And you know what? That’s probably the best MLS can ever be and I’m talking best case scenario. Maybe you can have a Boca Juniors type team that can compete with Europe once in a while. What will hold us back from accomplishing that is the fact that US leagues have salary caps and they want parity. For every Boca or River Plate, there is every other team who is trash and will never win a thing. For every America or Chivas Guadalajara in Mexico they’re is a Chiapas, Cobras or UAG.

Also don’t forget. Every country that has a “Top League” has won a World Cup And is consistency one of the top international sides in the world. Spain, France, England, Argentina, Brazil. If you have a top league you will probably have a top domestic league because of the talent you are grooming. It’s not enough to have tons of cash, you have to develop great domestic players because they make up the bulk of your players.
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I think you’re underestimating the American market. America has proved to have the superior athletes in the world. More and more kids are growing up kicking a soccer ball around. All the data points that you’re correct. In 20-40 years it might not seem so unrealistic. I don’t think we’ll ever be the best but the goal should be to work towards the top five.
 
JCorona said:
I think you’re underestimating the American market. America has proved to have the superior athletes in the world. More and more kids are growing up kicking a soccer ball around. All the data points that you’re correct. In 20-40 years it might not seem so unrealistic. I don’t think we’ll ever be the best but the goal should be to work towards the top five.
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But at the same with all due respect I think you’re overestimating the power of the American market. For America to have a top 5 league you would have to have a TV deal that would rival The NBA, MLB. Plus you would have to break into European markets. There are so many things you would need to go absolutely perfect for them to create a powerhouse league from player development to salaries etc. Again there are so many things you. Red to go right it’s like saying “UTEP can become a top school if they hire a new AD, raise a lot of money, get a good coach, keep him while he wins a ton and we remodel the stadium add seats, go undefeated in 7 years, keep our coach and get into The Big XII.”

You can find club rankings online and the highest rated Liga MX team is Tigre’s at 135. LA FC is 136. Just for comparison El Paso is ranked 569. I’m sure at a certain point they’re just throwing teams in there because there’s no way they could discern between who’s a better bad team. Big money goes hand and hand with quality. The top leagues have amazing quality of play. If they ever want to improve the league it starts at the bottom.
 
JCorona said:
That’s the main problem. The money made by the Championship League. They’ll never allow it but I would love to see mls and Mx teams seeded into the tournament.
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JCorona said:
That’s the main problem. The money made by the Championship League. They’ll never allow it but I would love to see mls and Mx teams seeded into the tournament.
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Its UEFA, they’d never allow it. It’s way too profitable and way too big to give up spots to American teams. That’s almost like letting a Greek League team into the NBA playoffs. Plus Europe’s leagues run from fall to spring with is MLS’ offseason. Plus imagine the nightmare for teams traveling to Russia to play a Wednesday Champion’s League game and then return home for a Domestic game on Saturday. Those trips hurt a team like Tottenham Hotspur who doesn’t have an over abundance of depth. Imagine MLS and Liga MX, or vice versa any team traveling from Europe.

You know what is more realistic? MLS and Liga MX should try to play in the Copa Libertadores or Copa Sudamérica. That’s COMEBOL’s Champions League and UEFA Europa League. Liga MX used to play in those tournaments years ago and they would get some good results. Chivas had their infamous 4-0 win vs Boca in 2005, and they made the finals of the Libertadores in 2010. Pachuca won the Copa Sudamérica 2006. But Liga MX wanted to keep their money in house and they created the stupid Copa MX which in all seriousness is pointless. If and MLS team or Liga MX team could win that, then you could raise the profile of the league. If anyone remembers their Mexican soccer they’ll remember how big a win it was when Pumas beat the Real Madrid Galácticos for the Trofeo Santiago Bernabéu. Yes, it was a friendly tournament but I remember them showing replays of that game days after it was played.
 
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MLS can barely gets results in Mexico. They would lose 5-0 in Argentina and other Libertadores countries. Give them another 10 years.
 
NoNCAAWinsSince1992 said:
MLS can barely gets results in Mexico. They would lose 5-0 in Argentina and other Libertadores countries. Give them another 10 years.
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That is a fair point. An MLS team has not won The CONCACAF Champions League in its current format. Last MLS club to win was The LA Galaxy in 2000. In that time 2 Costa Rican Clubs have won the tournament.
 
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You know your soccer 8106. I used to think the same way as you. Impossible for mls to ever be in the top 5. With Austin getting a team I’ve turned into a bit of an mls fan boy. You’re absolutely right. It’s a dream at the moment. Yes I love the idea of mls and liga Mx going to South America. It wouldn’t hurt to leave the gold cup for the copa America either.
 
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