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The one guy I wanted to see...

Vegasminer

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Jul 5, 2001
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McSwiggen! And this hurts. As for all the Floyd Haters: just go away. Go to the Aggie Board. Go to the Longhorn board and support a "winner". I'll continue to support my Miners come hell or high-defections and if someone doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass...
 
McSwiggen! And this hurts. As for all the Floyd Haters: just go away. Go to the Aggie Board. Go to the Longhorn board and support a "winner". I'll continue to support my Miners come hell or high-defections and if someone doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass...

I have come to the conclusion that you are THE Mrs. Tim Floyd.
 
Would you care to actually make an argument?

Tim Floyd is not synonymous with the UTEP basketball program. In case you haven't noticed, the program that we all grew up loving is rapidly disintegrating under Floyd. The best he's done is a 5th seed in the NIT (6th with "his"players). Meaning, we've been no where close to the NCAA Tournament. This will be his 7th year, and it looks like we're staring down the barrel of a single digit win season at this point. And, I'm sure you know the rest of arguments.
 
Would you care to actually make an argument?

Tim Floyd is not synonymous with the UTEP basketball program. In case you haven't noticed, the program that we all grew up loving is rapidly disintegrating under Floyd. The best he's done is a 5th seed in the NIT (6th with "his"players). Meaning, we've been no where close to the NCAA Tournament. This will be his 7th year, and it looks like we're staring down the barrel of a single digit win season at this point. And, I'm sure you know the rest of arguments.

This has been Vegas' schtick over the past couple of years. Floyd = UTEP. In his/her mind, at least judging by what (s)he writes, if one wants TF gone, there is no fathomable way one can still be a Miner fan. Vegas fails to realize that Miner bb is bigger than Floyd...much bigger.
 
At this point it would be wise to fire both Stull and Floyd (and his entire staff) and let a new AD make the basketball coach hire.

I don't think Stull can reel in a strong up-and-comer.
 
At this point it would be wise to fire both Stull and Floyd (and his entire staff) and let a new AD make the basketball coach hire.

I don't think Stull can reel in a strong up-and-comer.

At this point basketball is on the back burner. All the money right now is tied to football facilities upgrades and possible conference entrance and exit fees. I thought there were only two years left on Floyd's contact, he signed a five year extension in 2013. However, he must have got another extension because he's signed through 2020. Its a very Floyd favored deal. No buyouts for either side, 10k raise every year. If he's fired we have to pay him the 2.7 million left on his contract. He's going to be here and the basketball program will continue to be a rutterless ship. Now is the time to upgrade season tickets, there will be lots of prime seats available.
 
At this point basketball is on the back burner. All the money right now is tied to football facilities upgrades and possible conference entrance and exit fees. I thought there were only two years left on Floyd's contact, he signed a five year extension in 2013. However, he must have got another extension because he's signed through 2020. Its a very Floyd favored deal. No buyouts for either side, 10k raise every year. If he's fired we have to pay him the 2.7 million left on his contract. He's going to be here and the basketball program will continue to be a rutterless ship. Now is the time to upgrade season tickets, there will be lots of prime seats available.

I already have prime seats...

give-up.gif
 
As a miner fan, I can feel the pain. I really have no words but I will continue to support
our basketball team. I am not going to bash our coaches and players. Things happened
for a reason.

Go Miners...
 
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So with everything else that Natalicio has done a great job with at/for UTEP, is sports the blemish on her? Meaning, she doesn't seem to know much about sports and just defers to Stull??
 
Blemish? It is the UNIVERSITY of Texas at El Paso! Not a rich school where even the students turned down a proposition that would increase activities fees and a portion be used for Athletics! Priority is to educate have open access, which she has succeeded! Reference April 21, "100 most influencial !" Pony Up $50K or $100K!
 
Blemish? It is the UNIVERSITY of Texas at El Paso! Not a rich school where even the students turned down a proposition that would increase activities fees and a portion be used for Athletics! Priority is to educate have open access, which she has succeeded! Reference April 21, "100 most influencial !" Pony Up $50K or $100K!

UTEP was a poor school when Natalicio came in. Natalicio has made UTEP a financial force. She has cultivated alot of high dollar donors. She is a prolific fundraiser. Its a slow time so basketball is the story now, but its irrelevant to her legacy or the future of the athletic department. In a few months UTEP will move conferences and announces Sun Bowl renovations. People will forget about this and realize the athletic department is stonger and better posistioned than ever before.
 
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Are we that sure we're moving conferences? We have heard this story every off season for the last how many years?
I don't believe Natalicio is the problem. And in reality I don't want my children, or anyone else's kids accruing more debt/paying more money to offset the athletic department. As fans and alumni i feel like that's where we need to step in and donate our money.
 
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UTEP was a poor school when Natalicio came in. Natalicio has made UTEP a financial force. She has cultivated alot of high dollar donors. She is a prolific fundraiser. Its a slow time so basketball is the story now, but its irrelevant to her legacy or the future of the athletic department. In a few months UTEP will move conferences and announces Sun Bowl renovations. People will forget about this and realize the athletic department is stonger and better posistioned than ever before.
Northwestern is a perfect model, Academics first! Make them stronger, then focus on Sports! and Jeep, we're cool!
 
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UTEP was a poor school when Natalicio came in. Natalicio has made UTEP a financial force. She has cultivated alot of high dollar donors. She is a prolific fundraiser. Its a slow time so basketball is the story now, but its irrelevant to her legacy or the future of the athletic department. In a few months UTEP will move conferences and announces Sun Bowl renovations. People will forget about this and realize the athletic department is stonger and better posistioned than ever before.

I wouldn't say poor but a ho hum commuter school under good ol boy Texas leadership both academically and in sports. Athletic wise, no one challenged UTEP's good ol' boy leadership because they played the Haskins card constantly and they walked in his shadow. UTEP paid the price for it when the old WAC schools left UTEP out in the rain.

Kind of ironic UTEP is now tied down with Floyd (via his contract) who was part of that old UTEP system back then. While I agree fans willl cheer going to the MW, reality will smack all of us come the start of the basketball season.
 
At some point this becomes a Natalicio issue if Stull doesn't act in the program's best interest.

At what point were UTEP athletics NOT a Natalicio issue? She has been such a blessing to UTEP. But while Natalicio often speaks of her dream of Tier 1 research status, UTEP's record in athletics over the past 15 years simply does not support that vision. Stull moved the needle to some degree on facilities, although some would argue that that "progress" was really just keeping pace with collegiate competitors. But the on-field performance record as a body of work during his tenure has been pathetic, despite membership in a conference in which the quality of competition has steadily declined.

Stull's been on cruise control for years, mediocrity has been the standard for UTEP athletics during his administration. That's on his boss. And anybody who doesn't understand the linkage between athletics and Tier 1 status is disqualified from the conversation.

Dream of excellence and tolerate nothing - or anybody - that doesn't contribute to the achievement of that vision...
 
At what point were UTEP athletics NOT a Natalicio issue? She has been such a blessing to UTEP. But while Natalicio often speaks of her dream of Tier 1 research status, UTEP's record in athletics over the past 15 years simply does not support that vision. Stull moved the needle to some degree on facilities, although some would argue that that "progress" was really just keeping pace with collegiate competitors. But the on-field performance record as a body of work during his tenure has been pathetic, despite membership in a conference in which the quality of competition has steadily declined.

Stull's been on cruise control for years, mediocrity has been the standard for UTEP athletics during his administration. That's on his boss. And anybody who doesn't understand the linkage between athletics and Tier 1 status is disqualified from the conversation.

Dream of excellence and tolerate nothing - or anybody - that doesn't contribute to the achievement of that vision...

I agree with most of everything you said. Perhaps my phrasing of the statement was not concise enough. Natalicio hired Stull to manage UTEP athletics. She has provided him the time and space to get things done without micromanaging his day to day affairs. At a point, so that the face of UTEP athletics and namely the bb program at this point in time, doesn't fade into further obscurity, Dr Natalicio probably needs to step in now and do Stull's job for him since she is his boss and he isn't getting it done. While UTEP athletics has always technically been a Natalicio issue, due to lack of interest and knowledge, she has trusted Stull to do what's best for the athletic department, and UTEP as a whole. From this perspective, it hasn't been a Natalicio issue, but in my estimation, it is fast becoming one.

She is no Renu Khator in regards to understanding the importance of keeping up with the Joneses athletically to help the institution as a whole.
 
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She is no Renu Khator in regards to understanding the importance of keeping up with the Joneses athletically to help the institution as a whole.[/QUOTE]

She is more like Khator than you think.
 
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Minerforlife said... "She is more like Khator than you think."

Natalicio and Khator are both high visibility, minority women leading major public institutions in the State of Texas. Their collective commitment to academic excellence speaks for itself. That said, keep several things in mind...

First, in less than ten years, Khator has already achieved Tier 1 status for UH, a remarkable achievement.

Second, Khator is first and foremost an educator, but from Day 1 she recognized the jet fuel ($) for achieving Tier 1 status would be provided by nationally recognized athletic programs.

Third, do not underestimate the substantial political and financial benefits that accrue to Dr. Natalicio and any institution included in the University of Texas system. Whether it's the Texas legislature, historically dominated by UT and AnM influence, or the Big 12, dominated by the University of Texas, Dr. Khator has overcome HUGE obstacles in her tenure. Some remain. Like the institution she serves, Dr. Khator is in many ways the best kept secret in Texas, if not the nation.

Natalicio and Khator are both national treasures. For years, however, it has been a mystery to many outsiders as to why the bar for UTEP athletics has been set so low. A leader delegates, provides resources, and holds people accountable. Athletically, that record also speaks for itself.
 
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Minerforlife said... "She is more like Khator than you think."

Natalicio and Khator are both high visibility, minority women leading major public institutions in the State of Texas. Their collective commitment to academic excellence speaks for itself. That said, keep several things in mind...

First, in less than ten years, Khator has already achieved Tier 1 status for UH, a remarkable achievement.

Second, Khator is first and foremost an educator, but from Day 1 she recognized the jet fuel ($) for achieving Tier 1 status would be provided by nationally recognized athletic programs.

Third, do not underestimate the substantial political and financial benefits that accrue to Dr. Natalicio and any institution included in the University of Texas system. Whether it's the Texas legislature, historically dominated by UT and AnM influence, or the Big 12, dominated by the University of Texas, Dr. Khator has overcome HUGE obstacles in her tenure. Some remain. Like the institution she serves, Dr. Khator is in many ways the best kept secret in Texas, if not the nation.

Natalicio and Khator are both national treasures. For years, however, it has been a mystery to many outsiders as to why the bar for UTEP athletics has been set so low. A leader delegates, provides resources, and holds people accountable. Athletically, that record also speaks for itself.

Natalicio is not a "minority" -- she's white. Her last name sounds Latino, but it's a name she picked up from a past marriage.
 
Minerforlife said... "She is more like Khator than you think."

Natalicio and Khator are both high visibility, minority women leading major public institutions in the State of Texas. Their collective commitment to academic excellence speaks for itself. That said, keep several things in mind...

First, in less than ten years, Khator has already achieved Tier 1 status for UH, a remarkable achievement.

Second, Khator is first and foremost an educator, but from Day 1 she recognized the jet fuel ($) for achieving Tier 1 status would be provided by nationally recognized athletic programs.

Third, do not underestimate the substantial political and financial benefits that accrue to Dr. Natalicio and any institution included in the University of Texas system. Whether it's the Texas legislature, historically dominated by UT and AnM influence, or the Big 12, dominated by the University of Texas, Dr. Khator has overcome HUGE obstacles in her tenure. Some remain. Like the institution she serves, Dr. Khator is in many ways the best kept secret in Texas, if not the nation.

Natalicio and Khator are both national treasures. For years, however, it has been a mystery to many outsiders as to why the bar for UTEP athletics has been set so low. A leader delegates, provides resources, and holds people accountable. Athletically, that record also speaks for itself.
Uhh


Two very different circumstances coug. When Natalicio became president of UTEP in 1988, UTEP was a poor commuter school with very few majors. UTEP had the worst infrastructure both academically and athletically in the state of Texas. There was no coorporate or alumni base to raise funds for UTEP. Natalicio had to cultivate it.

Houston has had pretty decent academics for its entire history. In the last 15 years they have made great strides achieving tier one. What Houston had UTEP didnt was an outstanding athletic pedigree. Houston football abd basketball in the eighties were the envy of almost every school in the nation. Houston's problem was they never capitalized off their time in the SWC and built facilities. Playing games in the dome was a huge mistake. Even in the down times however Houston was a sleeping giant.

The big difference in the schools are the cities. Houston like UTEP is mainly a commuter school. However, Houston pulls from a population base thats six times larger than El Paso. They also have the benefit of being located in the energy and medical capital of Texas. Its much easier to raise money there because of the coorporate money that is readily available.

When you consider what Natalicio has accomished in a poor border city its remarkable. The UT system is a benefit to UTEP no doubt, but to infer that it politically benefits UTEP more than Houston is absurd. El Paso is always used against UTEP in the legislature. This a conservative state where the leaders want to push the narrative the border is being invaded, we're under attack, border towns are poor crime ridden hell holes. Several times UTEP has been denied thing unfairly because we are on the border. That is a fact. UH never faces the hurdles or stereotypes UTEP does in the Texas legislature.

Natalicio was anti football until the late nineties, when she realized a good football team increased applications and donations. She has stated she gets the most positive emails and donations when the football team wins. The building of the football program has been a priority. She has had to build a program from scratch. Build the donor base, take ownership of the Sun Bowl from the city, build facilities.

I will be the first to admit that Stull has made many inexcusable mistakes. However in this 21 st century football has been better than basketball. With the major renovations coming to the Sun Bowl and conference stabilization, we are poised to become a perennial winner in football. I like where the program is at.

Khator has the benefit of being not only president of the university but also chancelor of the UH system. She has alot of power, and controls the purse strings. She has made a huge gamble on sports. Houston is subsidizing their sports programs at an unsustainable rate (106 million a year). The faculty and students are not happy about it. It will work if Houston goes to a p 5 conference, but if they dont or if football takes a dip, Khatur, will crash and burn. Her tenure will be over and her career in ruins. Its a risky play but I give her credit it takes big risks to get big rewards.

UTEP is second in the state of Texas behind Gouston in subsidizing athletics. However, UTEP is a very distant second and the level is sustainable. Plus we dont have the burden of paying off stadium bonds like UH. Thats why I say they're similar both are pouring large amounts of money into athletics. I think UTEP is about to start seeing the divends.

When you look at the big picture of what Natalicio has done its astounding. No one in 1988 would ever have thought UTEP academics would get to the level they are now. No one would have thought the athletic department would be as strong and financially sound as it is. Its taken longer than many would have liked, but the athletic program and specifically the football are right on the cusp of greatness. The story isnt done yet, and theres going to be a hell of a final chapter in Natalico's legacy.
 
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Uhh


Two very different circumstances coug. When Natalicio became president of UTEP in 1988, UTEP was a poor commuter school with very few majors. UTEP had the worst infrastructure both academically and athletically in the state of Texas. There was no coorporate or alumni base to raise funds for UTEP. Natalicio had to cultivate it.

Houston has had pretty decent academics for its entire history. In the last 15 years they have made great strides achieving tier one. What Houston had UTEP didnt was an outstanding athletic pedigree. Houston football abd basketball in the eighties were the envy of almost every school in the nation. Houston's problem was they never capitalized off their time in the SWC and built facilities. Playing games in the dome was a huge mistake. Even in the down times however Houston was a sleeping giant.

The big difference in the schools are the cities. Houston like UTEP is mainly a commuter school. However, Houston pulls from a population base thats six times larger than El Paso. They also have the benefit of being located in the energy and medical capital of Texas. Its much easier to raise money there because of the coorporate money that is readily available.

When you consider what Natalicio has accomished in a poor border city its remarkable. The UT system is a benefit to UTEP no doubt, but to infer that it politically benefits UTEP more than Houston is absurd. El Paso is always used against UTEP in the legislature. This a conservative state where the leaders want to push the narrative the border is being invaded, we're under attack, border towns are poor crime ridden hell holes. Several times UTEP has been denied thing unfairly because we are on the border. That is a fact. UH never faces the hurdles or stereotypes UTEP does in the Texas legislature.

Natalicio was anti football until the late nineties, when she realized a good football team increased applications and donations. She has stated she gets the most positive emails and donations when the football team wins. The building of the football program has been a priority. She has had to build a program from scratch. Build the donor base, take ownership of the Sun Bowl from the city, build facilities.

I will be the first to admit that Stull has made many inexcusable mistakes. However in this 21 st century football has been better than basketball. With the major renovations coming to the Sun Bowl and conference stabilization, we are poised to become a perennial winner in football. I like where the program is at.

Khator has the benefit of being not only president of the university but also chancelor of the UH system. She has alot of power, and controls the purse strings. She has made a huge gamble on sports. Houston is subsidizing their sports programs at an unsustainable rate (106 million a year). The faculty and students are not happy about it. It will work if Houston goes to a p 5 conference, but if they dont or if football takes a dip, Khatur, will crash and burn. Her tenure will be over and her career in ruins. Its a risky play but I give her credit it takes big risks to get big rewards.

UTEP is second in the state of Texas behind Gouston in subsidizing athletics. However, UTEP is a very distant second and the level is sustainable. Plus we dont have the burden of paying off stadium bonds like UH. Thats why I say they're similar both are pouring large amounts of money into athletics. I think UTEP is about to start seeing the divends.

When you look at the big picture of what Natalicio has done its astounding. No one in 1988 would ever have thought UTEP academics would get to the level they are now. No one would have thought the athletic department would be as strong and financially sound as it is. Its taken longer than many would have liked, but the athletic program and specifically the football are right on the cusp of greatness. The story isnt done yet, and theres going to be a hell of a final chapter in Natalico's legacy.

Perhaps you overlooked my characterization of Dr. Natalicio as a "national treasure". Beyond that, this thread has focused on the relationship of intercollegiate athletics to academic success - and how people - coaches, athletic directors, and university presidents - are held/not held accountable. Glad to know you feel that Stull has the UTEP "athletic program and specifically the football on the cusp of greatness." Can't help but wonder how many of your fellow Miners share your assessment? And just curious, how many conference championships (football and basketball) has UTEP won since Bob Stull has been Athletic Director?

Don't hate on Khator and UH for having - and acting - on a vision. And your comment that "UH never faces the hurdles or stereotypes UTEP does in the Texas legislature" simply demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge of the facts, realities, and challenges faced by the University of Houston - past, present, and future.
 
Perhaps you overlooked my characterization of Dr. Natalicio as a "national treasure". Beyond that, this thread has focused on the relationship of intercollegiate athletics to academic success - and how people - coaches, athletic directors, and university presidents - are held/not held accountable. Glad to know you feel that Stull has the UTEP "athletic program and specifically the football on the cusp of greatness." Can't help but wonder how many of your fellow Miners share your assessment? And just curious, how many conference championships (football and basketball) has UTEP won since Bob Stull has been Athletic Director?

Don't hate on Khator and UH for having - and acting - on a vision. And your comment that "UH never faces the hurdles or stereotypes UTEP does in the Texas legislature" simply demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge of the facts, realities, and challenges faced by the University of Houston - past, present, and future.

I dont agree with alott Stull has done. He should have been fired along time ago. However, the football program is in good shape. Most people are excited about the future.

I dont hate Khatur. I applaud what she has done. However, her legacy is far from sealed. UH has never and wont ever face the hurdles UTEP has. I dont like UH I readily admit that. I know alot of UH alumns and donors and I know how they feel about UTEP. The feeling is mutual I dont like hem either. However, I respect what hey have done academically and athletically.

Im glad UH has tshirt fans now. A few years ago you couldnt find a UH fan. Now they have people like yourself excited about the Htown Takeover.
 
I dont agree with alott Stull has done. He should have been fired along time ago. However, the football program is in good shape. Most people are excited about the future.

I dont hate Khatur. I applaud what she has done. However, her legacy is far from sealed. UH has never and wont ever face the hurdles UTEP has. I dont like UH I readily admit that. I know alot of UH alumns and donors and I know how they feel about UTEP. The feeling is mutual I dont like hem either. However, I respect what hey have done academically and athletically.

Im glad UH has tshirt fans now. A few years ago you couldnt find a UH fan. Now they have people like yourself excited about the Htown Takeover.

So you think Stull should have been fired a long time ago but you still think the UTEP athletic department in general and the football program in particular is "on the cusp of greatness". Let me roll that one around for a bit...

Frankly, I find your comment about UH "tshirt fans" to be borderline insulting. Ironically, I, and perhaps you, can remember the days of yesteryear when UTEP football would pack 40-50K into the Sun Bowl. And FYI, UH may sell upwards of 25K season tickets this year. Not AnM numbers, but at those prices, I guarantee non of them are "tshirt fans".

Not sure the source of your admitted animosity toward The University of Houston, but I'll certainly, give you a A for honesty. I, too, know a boatload of Houston alumni, fans, and donors and I just don't see the animosity you continuously attribute to them toward UTEP. I do find your blanket statement to be more than a little disingenuous - and suspicious. And with all due respect, sir, I don't know a lot of UH fans, alumni, and donors who actually spend a lot of time dwelling on UTEP, much less bad-mouthing or expressing ill will toward the University or its athletic programs. With your admitted open hostility toward Houston, maybe that animosity from UH fans that you've allegedly experienced is perhaps aimed in a different direction other than UTEP.
 
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So you think Stull should have been fired a long time ago but you still think the UTEP athletic department in general and the football program in particular is "on the cusp of greatness". Let me roll that one around for a bit...

Frankly, I find your comment about UH "tshirt fans" to be borderline insulting. Ironically, I, and perhaps you, can remember the days of yesteryear when UTEP football would pack 40-50K into the Sun Bowl. And FYI, UH may sell upwards of 25K season tickets this year. Not AnM numbers, but at those prices, I guarantee non of them are "tshirt fans".

Not sure the source of your admitted animosity toward The University of Houston, but I'll certainly, give you a A for honesty. I, too, know a boatload of Houston alumni, fans, and donors and I just don't see the animosity you continuously attribute to them toward UTEP. I do find your blanket statement to be more than a little disingenuous - and suspicious. And with all due respect, sir, I don't know a lot of UH fans, alumni, and donors who actually spend a lot of time dwelling on UTEP, much less bad-mouthing or expressing ill will toward the University or its athletic programs. With your admitted open hostility toward Houston, maybe that animosity from UH fans that you've allegedly experienced is perhaps aimed in a different direction other than UTEP.

First off the football program is in good shape. Depth wise, coaching wise and academically the program is better off than ever. Stull through bonehead decisions has slowed the progress no doubt but they are close. They have to produce on the field but I think they will. Like it or not an athletic department is judged by the success of the football team.

I grew up in the area, almost all my family still lives in Houston. I have many friends and relatives who went to UH. I dont hate all Coog fans. We played in a league with them for eight seasons. During that time I every football game the schools played and attended cusa basketball tournaments when they played. No fanbase had more animosity toward UTEP than UH did. They made it known how they disdain they had for UTEP. I dont think many younger fans care. The ones who did were older boosters who dated back to the swc days. They were appalled UTEP was in their conference. I will say this I attend about three UTEP roads games a years. Ive interacted with several fanbases. The only fan base ive had any problems with are the Cougars. It wasnt all of them but there were always a few who went way overboard. I think the fact that im white led some of them to think i would find some of their offensive remarks funny. I dont dislike all UH fans like I said ive got alot of friends and family who are coogs. My issue is that every bad experience ive had with opposing fan bases have all involved UH fans.

Why would you be offended about tshirt fans. They're winning of course they have tshirt fans. Every school gets them if they win. Especially in a prosports town like Houston. UTEP had tshirt fans they're gone now but they will be back if we win. Congrats on 25k season ticket sales. I remember when we sold 25k in 2008 i sure as hell hope we get back to it.

As for the dislike ive referenced for UTEP at the administrative level at Houston. Thats real and its multilayered. Their big time boosters and administrators dont want to be in the same conference with UTEP ever again.
 
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