Are we witnessing one of the best UTEP players since "Bad News" Barnes?

[utep2step]

Bryson Williams has to be one the best UTEP basketball players in decades and this includes Caracter, George Banks, Marlon Maxey, Tim Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Dave Feitl, etc.

I can not remember a more dominant player than Williams. Barnes was basically unstoppable and Williams is as well. Caracter was very strong, had a soft touch inside the paint but had no outside game. Tim Hardaway literally controlled his defender or whom he was defending. Williams is a headache for opposing coaches because if they put their big man on him he will beat him outside with 3's. If you put more athletic PF's on him Williams just dominates in the post and literally pounds them down inside. Dave Feitl was Haskins "Hatchet Man". Coach Haskins wanted a player to get his point across to opposing teams and Feitl "The Cheese" got it across. George Bank (NBA 2nd round) used his athleticism to get to the basket but beyond 15' his game weakened. Williams's game is stout at 15' and beyond. The Rice game showed the headache he can cause: Williams was double teamed, triple coverage in many instances in that game. Rice focused just on him and what happened? Boum and Edwards slashed and gashed Rice because so much energy was focused on Bryson because one defended in front of Williams and one behind with anther ready to slide over for help when he got the ball in the post. Rice lost because Williams brings that to the hardwood. Kind of like Aaron Jones, you can stack the line but he still slides thru or he can use his lateral speed to get around the d line. Marlon Maxey was another interior UTEP beast. Strength, and hard to move; he moved you. But outside the paint he was ineffective. Davis had a turn around jumper in the paint that was unstoppable. He touched the sun for rebounds and his buzzard wing span and length caused interior headaches.

If Barns were playing today he would still be a top draft pick, he was that dominating. If Bryson Williams was playing against Kentucky Williams would have been a nightmare because of his inside and outside game.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

No

 

[unihorn]

He’s damn good. If he returns for his senior year, I’m sure there will be some shuffling of players, but who cares? He’s our best player — by far.

 

[axingfools1]

I liked them both, but remove Caracter and add Brandon Wolfrom. He was a better player. Caracter was a bully that really didn't have any finesse in the paint.

Williams is an NBA player, but he needs a little more time. He will be a small PF in the NBA so he has to keep working on his dribbling, passing and outside shot. He actually got pushed around a bit by #4 last night. Bryson just has so many moves and different shots that he negated #4's strength.

 

[utep2step]

You need to sit close or on the floor to appreciate his game. I have been privileged to see a few UTEP greats close up and I can't remember seeing such a dominating player.

I hope he comes back for his senior year. We know him, CUSA knows him, but the rest of the country does not. His senior year will put him on the national map and top draft pick. There are so many NBA teams in need of his services just because of his strength alone.

 

[utep2step]

I liked them both, but remove Caracter and add Brandon Wolfrom. He was a better player. Caracter was a bully that really didn't have any finesse in the paint.

Williams is an NBA player, but he needs a little more time. He will be a small PF in the NBA so he has to keep working on his dribbling, passing and outside shot. He actually got pushed around a bit by #4 last night. Bryson just has so many moves and different shots that he negated #4's strength.

Pushed around but has so many moves? Ummmm, yes, that's my point. That's how you overcome your opponent, and that's what he did.

 

[axingfools1]

Pushed around but has so many moves? Ummmm, yes, that's my point. That's how you overcome your opponent, and that's what he did.

Hmmmm, yes, that's what I wrote along with some other stuff you may have missed? I thought I was agreeing with you. What is your argument?

 

[kickballpro]

I liked them both, but remove Caracter and add Brandon Wolfrom. He was a better player. Caracter was a bully that really didn't have any finesse in the paint.

Williams is an NBA player, but he needs a little more time. He will be a small PF in the NBA so he has to keep working on his dribbling, passing and outside shot. He actually got pushed around a bit by #4 last night. Bryson just has so many moves and different shots that he negated #4's strength.

I was going to reply with Wolfram. He was money and had a great touch. The other guy who was instant offense was Omar Thomas.

 

[unihorn]

Bryson also seems to have a great work ethic and attitude.

 

[Lil_Train]

You need to sit close or on the floor to appreciate his game. I have been privileged to see a few UTEP greats close up and I can't remember seeing such a dominating player.

I hope he comes back for his senior year. We know him, CUSA knows him, but the rest of the country does not. His senior year will put him on the national map and top draft pick. There are so many NBA teams in need of his services just because of his strength alone.

I hope he comes back as well, but a lot will depend on his draft grade/feedback he gets back from the NBA. One thing that is not in his favor, is his age. It is likely the scouts are of the opinion that he is close or may have already reached his ceiling. He is definitely an outstanding player at the mid major+ level; he is very efficient offensively and has deceptive timing on defense. Without him this year, we would look a lot like we did last year.

 

[utep2step]

Hmmmm, yes, that's what I wrote along with some other stuff you may have missed? I thought I was agreeing with you. What is your argument?

Sorry. My fault

 

[USAFminersfan]

I'm not as old as many on here, so maybe I've missed out on seeing some great players from way back. I'd however say I've never seen a better player in a miner uniform.

Tell me one player who's ever been as efficient as BW in the post, mid range, and at the 3PT range. He does it all, and makes it look easy.

 

[Lil_Train]

I'm not as old as many on here, so maybe I've missed out on seeing some great players from way back. I'd however say I've never seen a better player in a miner uniform.

Tell me one player who's ever been as efficient as BW in the post, mid range, and at the 3PT range. He does it all, and makes it look easy.

Yep, agree. The only other guy that I think compares, as others have mentioned, is the "other" BW. Wolfram was a conference MVP as a senior, and was one of my favorite all time Miners who played for four years. From what I have seen from Williams, I would put him right up there. If he stays for one more year, I would place him on top of the list.

 

[axingfools1]

I'm not as old as many on here, so maybe I've missed out on seeing some great players from way back. I'd however say I've never seen a better player in a miner uniform.

Tell me one player who's ever been as efficient as BW in the post, mid range, and at the 3PT range. He does it all, and makes it look easy.

I would have to agree. He is definitely the best NBA prospect since Moultrie (his was based on size and athleticism) and Williams is better because as you mentioned he is a 3-level scorer. He is also a good shot blocker.

I've been a UTEP fan since 88' so in my younger years I saw Hardaway, Davis, Foster and Maxey. I didnt get to see much in the years between 93'-01', but I did watch games here and there and Wolfrom was a big time scorer. I started back religiously right when O.T. and Fili were playing. Got to see Stefon Jackson, RC3, Stone, J. Williams, Caracter, Moultrie, Washburn and Hunter. All of these guys had either NBA opportunities or long careers overseas. I have to say that of the big men, Williams is the best I've seen.

 

[Lil_Train]

I would have to agree. He is definitely the best NBA prospect since Moultrie (his was based on size and athleticism) and Williams is better because as you mentioned he is a 3-level scorer. He is also a good shot blocker.

I've been a UTEP fan since 88' so in my younger years I saw Hardaway, Davis and Foster. I didnt get to see much in the years between 93'-01', but I did watch games here and there and Wolfrom was a big time scorer. I started back religiously right when O.T. and Fili were playing. Got to see Stefon Jackson, RC3, Stone, J. Williams, Caracter, Moultrie, Washburn and Hunter. All of these guys had either NBA opportunities or long careers overseas. I have to say that of the big men, Williams is the best I've seen.

Completely hypothetical, but I would have loved to have seen Hunter and/or Moultrie as fourth year Juniors in a Miner uniform.

 

[Roy_Bigwood_05]

No. Vince Hunter nearly averaged a double-double as a sophomore and had some huge games...

Bryson is close and is damn good, but if were talking this past decade, Hunter is by far the best, since Barnes, Wolfram or DJ Jackson take the cake for me.

Bryson has a good argument though.

 

[axingfools1]

No. Vince Hunter nearly averaged a double-double as a sophomore and had some huge games...

Bryson is close and is damn good, but if were talking this past decade, Hunter is by far the best, since Barnes, Wolfram or DJ Jackson take the cake for me.

Bryson has a good argument though.

Loved me some VH, but he couldn't dribble or shoot and was always good for a few bone head plays each game. He also never learned how to stop fouling when we needed him the most. He was definitely one of the top 3 most dynamic/exciting UTEP players I've ever seen, but better overall than Williams, I dont agree.

I have always thought that VH was a center in a SF body. If he were 6'11 and 225 lbs like Moultrie, he would be starting in the NBA as we speak.

 

[USAFminersfan]

No. Vince Hunter nearly averaged a double-double as a sophomore and had some huge games...

Bryson is close and is damn good, but if were talking this past decade, Hunter is by far the best, since Barnes, Wolfram or DJ Jackson take the cake for me.

Bryson has a good argument though.

Hunter had an incredible motor and raw athleticism, but talent wise I don't think he's even in the conversation with BW. Hunters main skill was getting put-backs off his own miss in the post. Williams offensive skill set, however, is in a different stratosphere than Hunter.

 

[jdubb66]

None of the players mentioned could match Hardaway's dominance among elite players. Timbug put up 35 against a Bobby Knight team that would go to the sweet 16 that year. The Hoosier fans would be going nuts, then Hardaway would do something and you would hear an audible oooohhhh from the fans. He was not an NBA player, he was one of the 50 greatest of all time. He's the undisputed UTEP GOAT, make no mistake about it. We were priviledged to have him here. That said, I certainly think BW can make a case for being the best since Timmy.

 

[NoNCAAWinsSince1992]

Williams is also a junior and sat out a year. VH was a freshman and sophomore when he played here.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Williams is the man, make no mistake. But guys like Jim Barnes, Tim Hardaway and even guys like Lattin, OT, Culpepper etc were not only able to dominate but they were able to lead their teams to massive success. Now I’m not knocking Williams but this team can’t even win a road game.

 

[Cube Jack]

Davis, Foster, Maxey, Hardaway, etc had the luxury of playing together on good teams. Guys like Stewart and Van Dyke also played key roles. Since Willliams isn't surrounded by that level of talent it makes him have to do more. I think he's a future professional player, but I'll hold short before saying he's as good as an Antonio Davis just yet.

Hope he returns for his senior year. I imagine he would be in the conversation for Conference USA player of the year. Haven't had one at UTEP since Culpepper 10 years ago

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Davis, Foster, Maxey, Hardaway, etc had the luxury of playing together on good teams. Guys like Stewart and Van Dyke also played key roles. Since Willliams isn't surrounded by that level of talent it makes him have to do more. I think he's a future professional player, but I'll hold short before saying he's as good as an Antonio Davis just yet.

Hope he returns for his senior year. I imagine he would be in the conversation for Conference USA player of the year. Haven't had one at UTEP since Culpepper 10 years ago

A lot of people had this team pegged as a top team in C-USA and a possible NCAA Tournament team. I guarantee you none of those 1980s players were as heralded as some of the kids on this roster coming out of high school. The fact that this team is not good is a reflection of these kids and the coaching staff at this point.

 

[Cube Jack]

A lot of people had this team pegged as a top team in C-USA and a possible NCAA Tournament team. I guarantee you none of those 1980s players were as heralded as some of the kids on this roster coming out of high school. The fact that this team is not good is a reflection of these kids and the coaching staff at this point.

Foster was, but he'd played high school basketball with Gary Payton, which no doubt helped his status. Of course, he played two years against Payton in college since he was then at UCLA.

 

[Autograph Boy]

None of the players mentioned could match Hardaway's dominance among elite players. Timbug put up 35 against a Bobby Knight team that would go to the sweet 16 that year. The Hoosier fans would be going nuts, then Hardaway would do something and you would hear an audible oooohhhh from the fans. He was not an NBA player, he was one of the 50 greatest of all time. He's the undisputed UTEP GOAT, make no mistake about it. We were priviledged to have him here. That said, I certainly think BW can make a case for being the best since Timmy.

I agree with everything you said, but he was not the 50 greatest players of all time.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Foster was, but he'd played high school basketball with Gary Payton, which no doubt helped his status. Of course, he played two years against Payton in college since he was then at UCLA.

Fair enough. Foster was a highly rated recruit. But UTEP and Don Haskins were known for developing diamonds in the rough.

 

[Pony10]

Fair enough. Foster was a highly rated recruit. But UTEP and Don Haskins were known for developing diamonds in the rough.

Sure do miss Haskins and the 80’s

 

[MinerManiac]

A few thoughts:

The best player that I have personally seen in a Miner uniform was Tim Hardaway. He was definitely a game changer. One note about that game at Indiana: the Indiana fans, who are a knowledgeable bunch, gave Hardaway an huge ovation at the end of that game.

As good as Hardaway was, he wasn't the best Miner since Barnes. That honor goes to Nate Archibald. Archibald is in the Basketball Hall of Fame, and was named one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA during the league's 50th anniversary celebration. It's hard to argue with those accolades.

As has already been said, Vince Hunter's biggest assets were his incredible athleticism and his motor. When comparing him to Bryson Williams, I believe that Hunter was the better athlete and rebounder. Williams, however, is far more skilled as a basketball player, and, in my book, has the edge.

Other names that I've seen used to compare against Williams are Brandon Wolfram and Antonio Davis. I don't know whether or not Williams will have the NBA career that Davis had, but I believe that he is a better college player. I'll give the edge to Davis on defense, but a huge edge to Williams on offense. Against Wolfram? That's an interesting comparison. Both guys could score from anywhere on the court, and both guys were fantastic at the line. I'll have to think about that one some more.

As far as Greg Foster goes, my stance has mellowed on him. I wasn't a fan of his during his time at UTEP. As one poster on this board once said (sorry, I don't remember who), "Foster was as soft as church music." He did make a nice career for himself as an NBA reserve center, and I understand that he is a great community guy. I have to respect someone who gives back to the community.

PS. One more note on Hunter. I agree with axing, if he was at least 3 inches taller with those tools he would be in the NBA. I can definitely see a team using him like the Rockets use Clint Capela: rebounds, rim protection, and easy buckets inside

 

[Cube Jack]

A few thoughts:

The best player that I have personally seen in a Miner uniform was Tim Hardaway. He was definitely a game changer. One note about that game at Indiana: the Indiana fans, who are a knowledgeable bunch, gave Hardaway an huge ovation at the end of that game.

As good as Hardaway was, he wasn't the best Miner since Barnes. That honor goes to Nate Archibald. Archibald is in the Basketball Hall of Fame, and was named one of the 50 greatest players in the NBA during the league's 50th anniversary celebration. It's hard to argue with those accolades.

As has already been said, Vince Hunter's biggest assets were his incredible athleticism and his motor. When comparing him to Bryson Williams, I believe that Hunter was the better athlete and rebounder. Williams, however, is far more skilled as a basketball player, and, in my book, has the edge.

Other names that I've seen used to compare against Williams are Brandon Wolfram and Antonio Davis. I don't know whether or not Williams will have the NBA career that Davis had, but I believe that he is a better college player. I'll give the edge to Davis on defense, but a huge edge to Williams on offense. Against Wolfram? That's an interesting comparison. Both guys could score from anywhere on the court, and both guys were fantastic at the line. I'll have to think about that one some more.

As far as Greg Foster goes, my stance has mellowed on him. I wasn't a fan of his during his time at UTEP. As one poster on this board once said (sorry, I don't remember who), "Foster was as soft as church music." He did make a nice career for himself as an NBA reserve center, and I understand that he is a great community guy. I have to respect someone who gives back to the community.

PS. One more note on Hunter. I agree with axing, if he was at least 3 inches taller with those tools he would be in the NBA. I can definitely see a team using him like the Rockets use Clint Capela: rebounds, rim protection, and easy buckets inside

I think George Banks would be a good comparison, but Williams has a MUCH better outside shot.

 

[STexMiner]

Barnes is, if not the greatest, the most important player in UTEP history. Say what about about the 66 team, but that wouldn't have happened if Barnes didn't play before them.

We've had a bunch of discussions on here about what this team needs going forward. A true point guard. A shooter. I think the team needs a bucket getter. Someone who can get you a bucket after you've gone 2 or 3 possessions without one. Judging by our game in game out 5 minute scoring droughts, Williams hasn't been that type. Maybe that's a function of the regression of the rest of the team, and maybe I'll reevaluate that next year. Omar Thomas was that guy, and, in our recent history, think I'd take him over Williams right now.

I'll probably get some grief for this, but I'd put Williams more in the Antoine Gillespie class. A great player, a great scorer, but ultimately someone who hasn't been able to raise the level of those around him. Yet. Hopefully that opinion is subject to change.

 

[UTEPDefense]

I think George Banks would be a good comparison, but Williams has a MUCH better outside shot.

Banks was as athletic of a big man that I have ever seen at UTEP. Him and Hunter would be at the very top when measuring just athleticism, maybe also adding Darius Mattear if you want to consider him a big man. George Banks was like Deon Stroud on a 6'9" body.

The interesting thing about Banks, is that his JC teammate Damion Gosa was considered to be the big recruiting get when we were recruiting that year and Banks was almost just an add-on, when we later offered him as well. Gosa was the higher ranked prospect when we signed them. Then the roles reversed at the D1 level, as Gosa had an underwhelming career and Banks became an NBA draft pick. Just another example of how hard it can be to gauge recruiting rankings.

 

[axingfools1]

I forgot about Antoine 'Calves' Gillespie! I dont think I really got to see Banks play much.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Some of you guys may know better than I do, but I know Williams is listed as 6’8”. If he goes to the NBA does he have the size to bang with legitimate PFs, and if not does he have the speed and 3 pt ability to play as a SF?

 

[Roy_Bigwood_05]

Barnes is, if not the greatest, the most important player in UTEP history. Say what about about the 66 team, but that wouldn't have happened if Barnes didn't play before them.

We've had a bunch of discussions on here about what this team needs going forward. A true point guard. A shooter. I think the team needs a bucket getter. Someone who can get you a bucket after you've gone 2 or 3 possessions without one. Judging by our game in game out 5 minute scoring droughts, Williams hasn't been that type. Maybe that's a function of the regression of the rest of the team, and maybe I'll reevaluate that next year. Omar Thomas was that guy, and, in our recent history, think I'd take him over Williams right now.

I'll probably get some grief for this, but I'd put Williams more in the Antoine Gillespie class. A great player, a great scorer, but ultimately someone who hasn't been able to raise the level of those around him. Yet. Hopefully that opinion is subject to change.

+1

 

[pay4dirt]

Williams has good physical talent, but it is his hard work and focus that are showing up the most at this point. This is great for him but not so much so for the team. It seems that the coaches and players are depending on him too much to carry the load. Every one else that gets floor time needs to step up their game. I'd love it if Williams put up great numbers for the whole season, but the Miners need to average at least three in double figures in scoring, not just two. It's been Boum as the other lately. We might win a few more games if we had more total scoring, not just one player looking great. Go Team as well as Go Williams.

 

[axingfools1]

I've been disappointed in Edward's inability to average double figures. I was excited when we got him and even more so after the Tech scrimmage. He is just too inconsistent on offense. He should be shooting a majority of our 3s though.

 

[Cube Jack]

Barnes is, if not the greatest, the most important player in UTEP history. Say what about about the 66 team, but that wouldn't have happened if Barnes didn't play before them.

We've had a bunch of discussions on here about what this team needs going forward. A true point guard. A shooter. I think the team needs a bucket getter. Someone who can get you a bucket after you've gone 2 or 3 possessions without one. Judging by our game in game out 5 minute scoring droughts, Williams hasn't been that type. Maybe that's a function of the regression of the rest of the team, and maybe I'll reevaluate that next year. Omar Thomas was that guy, and, in our recent history, think I'd take him over Williams right now.

I'll probably get some grief for this, but I'd put Williams more in the Antoine Gillespie class. A great player, a great scorer, but ultimately someone who hasn't been able to raise the level of those around him. Yet. Hopefully that opinion is subject to change.

I'm biased when it comes to Gillespie because he was a friend back in college, but I would say Williams is much better of a passer. Gillespie was a good player who was a bit trigger-happy and felt he the earned the right to take as many shots as possible. I can't argue with his success. He went on to play professionally in Turkey for years

Kind of sad about Damion Gosa. God Rest his soul

 

[Randaddy Miner]

No

it is sloof lirpa, right???

 

[DBminer]

Barnes is, if not the greatest, the most important player in UTEP history. Say what about about the 66 team, but that wouldn't have happened if Barnes didn't play before them.

We've had a bunch of discussions on here about what this team needs going forward. A true point guard. A shooter. I think the team needs a bucket getter. Someone who can get you a bucket after you've gone 2 or 3 possessions without one. Judging by our game in game out 5 minute scoring droughts, Williams hasn't been that type. Maybe that's a function of the regression of the rest of the team, and maybe I'll reevaluate that next year. Omar Thomas was that guy, and, in our recent history, think I'd take him over Williams right now.

I'll probably get some grief for this, but I'd put Williams more in the Antoine Gillespie class. A great player, a great scorer, but ultimately someone who hasn't been able to raise the level of those around him. Yet. Hopefully that opinion is subject to change.

Omar Thomas has fili who was one of my favorite point guards as a miner that could get him the ball anytime he wanted to—-:
He also had st amant and Chris Craig to open up lanes that could shoot... and tofi on the other side... give Bryson Williams that team and watch out...

 

[Randaddy Miner]

Randy Culpepper because his name is bad ass