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OT: Corona virus Questions

The vulnerable population vaccination rate is 75-85%. Which is awesome. Thats why deaths aren't spiking and neither are ventilators. Which was the original goal.

At some point this went from protect the vulnerable to never have a case again.

100% of the adult population has made their choice. The Government needs to F Off and let people live with the decisions they have made. The elderly and vulnerable are protected for the most part and our system can cope with the rest.
 
kickballpro said:
The vulnerable population vaccination rate is 75-85%. Which is awesome. Thats why deaths aren't spiking and neither are ventilators. Which was the original goal.

At some point this went from protect the vulnerable to never have a case again.

100% of the adult population has made their choice. The Government needs to F Off and let people live with the decisions they have made. The elderly and vulnerable are protected for the most part and our system can cope with the rest.
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I've toyed with that thought too, and much less diplomatically. The problem with that is the more chance the virus has to spread, the more chance it has to mutate and the more chance it has to find a mutation that defeats the vaccine. Then we're back to March 2020.
 
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I understand we have no idea if there will be any long term repercussions that will result from the vaccine. I get that there are people who want to utilize personal liberties afforded to us and not put something into their body that is not fully understood. I get it.

We all make choices. It’s almost paradoxical, but some of the choices we make with our personal freedoms can come with a cost at someone else’s expense.

The healthcare system, while no where nearly as burdened as they have been at certain peaks, have been selflessly battling this epidemic for damn near 18 months now. Many are weary, frustrated, stressed and exhausted beyond extremes.

I’m curious how many people that continue to make the choice to not vaccinate would be willing to sacrifice their right to medical treatment should they need it.

If one isn’t willing to do that, then their personal liberties come at a high cost, at the expense of someone else (healthcare professionals and beyond).

Is that really freedom then?
 
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A lot of people put this as a Trump “thing “ . I don’t like the man but agreed with many of his policies. I voted for him as did my wife, we both got vaccinated as well as our 14 year old child.
On the other hand my nephew and niece are staunch Democrats and refuse to get the shots, nor have their two teenagers get vaccinated.
I disagree with their decision but who am I to tell them how to live their lives. I tried to convince them, but they make their own choices.
Yes it’s a risk taking the vaccine, but I believe a bigger risk to refuse it.
 
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Dmanminer said:
A lot of people put this as a Trump “thing “ . I don’t like the man but agreed with many of his policies. I voted for him as did my wife, we both got vaccinated as well as our 14 year old child.
On the other hand my nephew and niece are staunch Democrats and refuse to get the shots, nor have their two teenagers get vaccinated.
I disagree with their decision but who am I to tell them how to live their lives. I tried to convince them, but they make their own choices.
Yes it’s a risk taking the vaccine, but I believe a bigger risk to refuse it.
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That’s my personal take as well.
 
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A "pre-pandemic reality" has been around since the late 18th century when coxpox vaccine came out. Before that if you were not killed by dysentery, virus or infection you ended up in the King's infantry freezing your ass off praying to God the food supply, a pair of shoes or boots and blankets would arrive or you swore to yourself taking a bullet or arrow in the back or hanging for desertion was a better viable option than taking an arrow and suffering from gangrene for the "F%$#@*^ King!". If you survived beyond that you were in a small earthen structure with a nephew malnourished, unkept, and lonely.

I thank God for scientists and vaccines. As I heard one medical doctor on TV once say after seeing family "praying for miracle recovery" and the patient came ok with the family proclaiming "its a miracle from God!!". The doctor said "Yes. Yes it was. Was it not the medicine created by science?".
 
utep2step said:
A "pre-pandemic reality" has been around since the late 18th century when coxpox vaccine came out. Before that if you were not killed by dysentery, virus or infection you ended up in the King's infantry freezing your ass off praying to God the food supply, a pair of shoes or boots and blankets would arrive or you swore to yourself taking a bullet or arrow in the back or hanging for desertion was a better viable option than taking an arrow and suffering from gangrene for the "F%$#@*^ King!". If you survived beyond that you were in a small earthen structure with a nephew malnourished, unkept, and lonely.

I thank God for scientists and vaccines. As I heard one medical doctor on TV once say after seeing family "praying for miracle recovery" and the patient came ok with the family proclaiming "its a miracle from God!!". The doctor said "Yes. Yes it was. Was it not the medicine created by science?".
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Some us believe God gave mankind the ability to learn. Therefore God is science.
 
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Y'all ever wonder if God uses diseases to wipe some of mankind from earth?
 
Unfreakingbelievable.

"Three in ten adults remain unvaccinated including one in ten who say they want to “wait and see” how the vaccine works for other people before getting vaccinated and 3% who say they will do so “only if required” (down from 6% in June). An additional 14% say they will “definitely not” get a vaccine, a share that has held relatively steady since December. One-fourth of unvaccinated adults (8% of all adults) say they are likely to get a vaccine before the end of 2021, including nearly half (45%) of those who say they want to “wait and see.”
Unvaccinated adults, especially those who say they will “definitely not” get a vaccine, are much less worried about the coronavirus, the Delta variant, and have less confidence in the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines compared to those who are vaccinated. Three-fourths of unvaccinated adults, including nine in ten of those who say they will “definitely not” get the vaccine, say they are “not worried” about getting seriously sick from the virus..."

www.kff.org

KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor: July 2021

This Vaccine Monitor report finds little change since June in the share of adults who either received a COVID-19 vaccine or say they will as soon as they can. A quarter of unvaccinated adults say t…
www.kff.org www.kff.org
 
Hey axing, question for you. Is the healthcare system being overwhelmed in EP due to an uptick in Covid? Here in our little pocket of the world, the 3 area hospitals are all on diversion.

Just found out a friend of a friend was turned away from these 3 hospitals after having a stroke. A gawd damn STROKE.

I said it the other day, YES, people should be free to make a choice as to whether or not to receive the vaccination. I don’t give a ****. But, NO, after making that choice, you should not be entitled to healthcare treatment at the expense of people with other critical illnesses.

I’m not looking for a debate, but can anybody rationally argue against this? I’m open to hear it.
 
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MineroFanatico said:
Hey axing, question for you. Is the healthcare system being overwhelmed in EP due to an uptick in Covid? Here in our little pocket of the world, the 3 area hospitals are all on diversion.

Just found out a friend of a friend was turned away from these 3 hospitals after having a stroke. A gawd damn STROKE.

I said it the other day, YES, people should be free to make a choice as to whether or not to receive the vaccination. I don’t give a ****. But, NO, after making that choice, you should not be entitled to healthcare treatment at the expense of people with other critical illnesses.

I’m not looking for a debate, but can anybody rationally argue against this? I’m open to hear it.
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No we are not overwhelmed with COVID at all. We are however receiving a lot of patients (for many reasons) from middle TX due to diversion and we are very busy.

The debate you refer too runs deep and has been around way before COVID. It may just be at the forefront for you now because of your personal connection. To say it simply, there is only so much capacity and staff for each facility. Not everybody in the hospital wants treatment and we all have had patients that we may feel don't deserve treatment, but the law ensures that every person it treated equal within capacity. It's first come first serve, but when your ICU is full it's very tough.

I hope your friend with the stroke got help. Sometimes treatment for stroke is time constrained. That's a very tough situation.
 
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axingfools1 said:
No we are not overwhelmed with COVID at all. We are however receiving a lot of patients (for many reasons) from middle TX due to diversion and we are very busy.

The debate you refer too runs deep and has been around way before COVID. It may just be at the forefront for you now because of your personal connection. To say it simply, there is only so much capacity and staff for each facility. Not everybody in the hospital wants treatment and we all have had patients that we may feel don't deserve treatment, but the law ensures that every person it treated equal within capacity. It's first come first serve, but when your ICU is full it's very tough.

I hope your friend with the stroke got help. Sometimes treatment for stroke is time constrained. That's a very tough situation.
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It’s not that I feel like people don’t deserve treatment. My “question” is more of an ethical/moral one aimed at the heart of social responsibility. I figured there were legalities that would prevent the hypothetical situation that I brought up, however I was hoping somebody that is on the side of the “dilemma” I posed, would have a solid response that maybe I haven’t thought about.

If I’m honest, I’m probably hoping some haven’t looked at it from this perspective and that the question at least cracks the armor so that it is looked at from outside solely an individual choice and more of a collective one. So in other words, has anyone taken this particular hypothetical situation into account and still feels like individual freedom trumps (ironic) the well-being of the collective?

And thanks, axing. I honestly don’t know the person that had the stroke so I don’t have any emotional investment towards them. The situation as a whole, perhaps my investment is increasing, though.
 
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MineroFanatico said:
It’s not that I feel like people don’t deserve treatment. My “question” is more of an ethical/moral one aimed at the heart of social responsibility. I figured there were legalities that would prevent the hypothetical situation that I brought up, however I was hoping somebody that is on the side of the “dilemma” I posed, would have a solid response that maybe I haven’t thought about.

If I’m honest, I’m probably hoping some haven’t looked at it from this perspective and that the question at least cracks the armor so that it is looked at from outside solely an individual choice and more of a collective one. So in other words, has anyone taken this particular hypothetical situation into account and still feels like individual freedom trumps (ironic) the well-being of the collective?

And thanks, axing. I honestly don’t know the person that had the stroke so I don’t have any emotional investment towards them. The situation as a whole, perhaps my investment is increasing, though.
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Well I guess there is no good answer to your question. Being socially responsible or irresponsible has no bearing on medical treatment. That will not change in the U.S.
 
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Opposite from last fall, El Paso may become a best scenario in Texas. Don't let up El Paso! This variant is very contagious but record numbers are now getting vaccinated across the country.

"The Texas Department of State Health Services reports more than 19,000 new confirmed and probable cases of COVID-19 on Wednesday along with increases in the positivity index and the number of people hospitalized with the virus.

According to data released by the DSHS, there were 15,558 new confirmed cases Wednesday and another 3,445 probable cases for a total of 19,003 cases of the virus.

The DSHS also reported 7,685 people hospitalized statewide with the virus, an increase of 380 patients since Tuesday and the highest number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients since Feb. 18.

Chris Van Deusen, the DSHS spokesman, said in a video conference that the rolling seven-day average of new COVID-19 cases has soared by 92% from last week, while hospitalizations rose by 49% and fatalities grew by 15%."

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronav...spitalizations-positivity-rate-climb/2708368/
 
ncusmc said:
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. This is in part owed to the centralized nature of Israel's government system, which for example does not defer many health policy decisions to lower state-level bodies of government. The state purchased a substantial amount of Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccinesrelative to its population as early as December 2020.[4][7] In May 2020, the state secured agreements with companies which were developing vaccines, such as Moderna.
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"Misleading posts on social media are now twisting data from Israel to falsely claim the country’s vaccination program is a failure due to the number of breakthrough cases of COVID-19 among the vaccinated. Medical professionals say Israel’s vaccine program is making remarkable progress against the virus."

apnews.com

Posts mislead on Israel vaccine data

CLAIM: The newest Israeli data on COVID-19 infections indicate a complete vaccine failure on every level. The data from Israel shows that nearly all serious cases and deaths are among the vaccinated.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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Minerinciter said:
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Me and my entire family (6 total) all contracted COVID in October 2020. My wife had the most problems with the virus and developed pneumonia. Handled with some antibiotics and none of us had to go to the hospital. We get checked regularly and all of us have anti-bodies for COVID. Explain to me why would it be necessary for any of us to get vaccinated to get antibodies when we already have them naturally in our bodies already? If at some point we lose the antibodies then and only then would I consider getting vaccinated. It's not a defiant thing but I think we can overwhelm our immune systems by adding something to our bodies that we already have. Maybe that explains why some people are getting infected despite being vaccinated. Not a doctor but we need to look at this further........
 
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DaMinerMan said:
Me and my entire family (6 total) all contracted COVID in October 2020. My wife had the most problems with the virus and developed pneumonia. Handled with some antibiotics and none of us had to go to the hospital. We get checked regularly and all of us have anti-bodies for COVID. Explain to me why would it be necessary for any of us to get vaccinated to get antibodies when we already have them naturally in our bodies already? If at some point we lose the antibodies then and only then would I consider getting vaccinated. It's not a defiant thing but I think we can overwhelm our immune systems by adding something to our bodies that we already have. Maybe that explains why some people are getting infected despite being vaccinated. Not a doctor but we need to look at this further........
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Thank god you can tell us about this. If you don't mind me asking, how did you guys catch the covid and how did you guys manage spreading it too so many people in your family?
 
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DaMinerMan said:
Me and my entire family (6 total) all contracted COVID in October 2020. My wife had the most problems with the virus and developed pneumonia. Handled with some antibiotics and none of us had to go to the hospital. We get checked regularly and all of us have anti-bodies for COVID. Explain to me why would it be necessary for any of us to get vaccinated to get antibodies when we already have them naturally in our bodies already? If at some point we lose the antibodies then and only then would I consider getting vaccinated. It's not a defiant thing but I think we can overwhelm our immune systems by adding something to our bodies that we already have. Maybe that explains why some people are getting infected despite being vaccinated. Not a doctor but we need to look at this further........
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Thanks for sharing. You make a very reasonable argument in regards to having had COVID and following up on your antibodies, but for people that haven't had COVID its a mute point.

In regards to the last few sentences, the vaccines do not provide 100% effectiveness. You can still contract COVID, carry it, spread it and in rare cases still get sick. In extremely rare cases you could still die despite being vaccinated.

Please be aware that people DO NOT get infected solely because they are vaccinated. It doesn't work that way. It only stimulates your body to produce antibodies by mimicking the spike protein created by the COVID virus.
 
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Underlying health conditions.

The virus mutated again. The new strain was discovered in Cali and tests are being run on its infection capabilities and lethality. More people get vaxxed the less chance it can mutate.
 
utep2step said:
Underlying health conditions.

The virus mutated again. The new strain was discovered in Cali and tests are being run on its infection capabilities and lethality. More people get vaxxed the less chance it can mutate.
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We’re never going to have 100% vaccination, in The United States, let alone the world. It sounds like this thing is going to keep mutating all over the world.
 
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