Please explain the difference between NMSU and UTEP...

[utepsteeler1]

when it comes to title 9. I checked the different sports for both schools, and below are the differences...
For men's sports, the only differences are that UTEP has Track and Field, while NMSU has Baseball and Tennis.
for women's sports, UTEP has Rifle, while NMSU has Indoor Track and field, plus Swimming and Diving.
All other sports we match each other.

So are we saying that if we drop Men's T&F, and add Swimming add Women's Swimming and Diving, we can add Baseball???
I know T&F has given us several titles, so lets drop Cross Country and Golf instead.

 

[unihorn]

 

[utepsteeler1]

OK, you got my attention.

 

[kickballpro]

Currently both student bodies are about 53% female and 47% male. So in order to be compliant both schools need to offer more female scholarships than male. However, the NCAA realizes that it won't be completely balanced because of the 85 football scholarships. Currently, UTEP offers 98 'Full Ride' scholarships for basketball and football. UTEP's total male scholarship count is 125.1. UTEP's female scholarship count is 35 'Full Rides' for Tennis, Volleyball, and Basketball. The female total scholarship count is 88. At NMSU, their male totals are 98 'full rides' and a total of 123.7 male scholarships. Their female count is 35 'full rides' and a total of 103 female scholarships. So NMSU is actually more compliant than UTEP. AND NMSU actually dropped womens equestrian and stayed ok.

UTEP could swap track for Baseball because track is 12.6 scholarships and baseball is 11.7. They also could add baseball and womens swimming. Because Baseball is 11.7 and swimming for women is 14.

Golf and cross country only add up to 9.5 scholarships combined.

It all boils down to which is cheaper to fund. Baseball is an expensive sport.

 

[utepsteeler1]

Thanks Kick, now I fully understand. If this is a upper level decision, so be it, not much we can do.
I did not realize that it was that easy to add baseball and still be compliant, but I now understand that adding baseball represents more of a cost issue than a compliance issue.

 

[Stanman915]

Why would UTEP drop the T&F which is the most successful sports program in school history?

 

[utep2step]

 

[utepsteeler1]

Why would UTEP drop the T&F which is the most successful sports program in school history?

I agree Stan, it was just an example so I would understand if it was that simple to add Baseball.

 

[kickballpro]

If you look at a school like The Citadel, they are 90% male, 10% female. Their scholarship count is about 145 male scholarships and only 60 female. But that's ok because it represents the population of their students.

Another way to look at it, UTEP can add baseball if more males enroll.

 

[MinerFan_18]

UTEP is not adding baseball. Stop bring up dead topics.

 

[Minerforlife]

UTEP is not adding baseball. Stop bring up dead topics.

The return is not imminent but it will happen. Baseball is a far more important and prominent now than it has ever been. At alot of schools it now takes presidency over basketball. UTEP is one of only two schools in cusa who dont play baseball.

 

[develman]

Currently both student bodies are about 53% female and 47% male. So in order to be compliant both schools need to offer more female scholarships than male. However, the NCAA realizes that it won't be completely balanced because of the 85 football scholarships. Currently, UTEP offers 98 'Full Ride' scholarships for basketball and football. UTEP's total male scholarship count is 125.1. UTEP's female scholarship count is 35 'Full Rides' for Tennis, Volleyball, and Basketball. The female total scholarship count is 88. At NMSU, their male totals are 98 'full rides' and a total of 123.7 male scholarships. Their female count is 35 'full rides' and a total of 103 female scholarships. So NMSU is actually more compliant than UTEP. AND NMSU actually dropped womens equestrian and stayed ok.

UTEP could swap track for Baseball because track is 12.6 scholarships and baseball is 11.7. They also could add baseball and womens swimming. Because Baseball is 11.7 and swimming for women is 14.

Golf and cross country only add up to 9.5 scholarships combined.

It all boils down to which is cheaper to fund. Baseball is an expensive sport.

I would think T&F is much cheaper to fund than men's baseball.

 

[Dmanminer]

Why the big push for baseball, very few even paid attention to it and even less went to the games. With our crappy newspaper and Utep inept public relations no one would know it existed.

 

[jdubb66]

Soccer is the future of college and professional athletics. We should add a men's soccer program. I think we would be immediately successful at the highest levels due to our recruiting area.

 

[Minerforlife]

Soccer is the future of college and professional athletics. We should add a men's soccer program. I think we would be immediately successful at the highest levels due to our recruiting area.

NCAA soccer is and will always be under the radar insignificant sport. Soccer's structure will keep it that way. The goal is for kids to join academy and Jr teams not college teams. I doubt El Paso puts out very many if any d1 soccer players.

 

[MineroFanatico]

NCAA soccer is and will always be under the radar insignificant sport. Soccer's structure will keep it that way. The goal is for kids to join academy and Jr teams not college teams. I doubt El Paso puts out very many if any d1 soccer players.

I’m not refuting your original point that NCAA soccer is under the radar, but c’mon man, insignificant??? The goal for most American soccer players is to play in the MLS, as that is most likely the pinnacle, and most realistic as far as playing professionally goes.

What I AM refuting is the lack of importance you put on college soccer in relation to reaching the top. Guess what the gateway into the MLS SuperDraft is. Yep, college soccer. Take a look at the first 4 rounds of the draft and see if you can tell me one thing they ALL have in common.

https://www.draftsite.com/mls/rules/

 

[Minerforlife]

I’m not refuting your original point that NCAA soccer is under the radar, but c’mon man, insignificant??? The goal for most American soccer players is to play in the MLS, as that is most likely the pinnacle, and most realistic as far as playing professionally goes.

What I AM refuting is the lack of importance you put on college soccer in relation to reaching the top. Guess what the gateway into the MLS SuperDraft is. Yep, college soccer. Take a look at the first 4 rounds of the draft and see if you can tell me one thing they ALL have in common.

https://www.draftsite.com/mls/rules/

Point taken. I know El Paso is predominantly Hispanic. I know soccer is popular, but are there d1 calibur players around. I know a few teams have won state but will any of them play at D1 schools? Albuquerque has very similar demographics to El Paso UNM foesnt year it up that program is always be rumored to be on the chopping block and Albuquerque loves soccer. Their USL team has been the talk of soccer circles alot like Cincinatti was. It's enough attention they will get mentioned so a candidate to get mls club #30. They wont get it but the support is very impressive. The point being if UNM struggles in a more soccer crazy market than El Paso more than likely UTEP would to. The investment in a very minor NCAA sport doesnt seem like money well spent. Any noteriity would be outweighed by the cost and invisibility of the sport on the NCAA level.

 

[JCorona]

NCAA soccer is and will always be under the radar insignificant sport. Soccer's structure will keep it that way. The goal is for kids to join academy and Jr teams not college teams. I doubt El Paso puts out very many if any d1 soccer players.

You’re right EP doesn’t produce that many D1 players. Since most of the kids from EP with talent are playing in Liga MX, which I would say is a few steps above NCAA soccer level.

 

[Cube Jack]

we've had a soccer club for years. No one ever goes to the games

 

[Stanman915]

Point taken. I know El Paso is predominantly Hispanic. I know soccer is popular, but are there d1 calibur players around. I know a few teams have won state but will any of them play at D1 schools? Albuquerque has very similar demographics to El Paso UNM foesnt year it up that program is always be rumored to be on the chopping block and Albuquerque loves soccer. Their USL team has been the talk of soccer circles alot like Cincinatti was. It's enough attention they will get mentioned so a candidate to get mls club #30. They wont get it but the support is very impressive. The point being if UNM struggles in a more soccer crazy market than El Paso more than likely UTEP would to. The investment in a very minor NCAA sport doesnt seem like money well spent. Any noteriity would be outweighed by the cost and invisibility of the sport on the NCAA level.

The big difference is the cost of facilities for soccer and baseball. There would be only minimal cost to add men's soccer since UTEP already has the field. Adding a baseball facility on campus or renting space at Southwest University park will eliminate baseball from the conversation.

 

[MinerFan_18]

No baseball.

 

[Minerforlife]

The big difference is the cost of facilities for soccer and baseball. There would be only minimal cost to add men's soccer since UTEP already has the field. Adding a baseball facility on campus or renting space at Southwest University park will eliminate baseball from the conversation.

Baseball's rapidly rising profile will make adding it a necessity.

 

[ZonaMiner]

We should get consistently good at either football or mens BB before we even think about adding another mens sport. It is pointless to add another mens sports program that will probably be mediocre when we already have consistently mediocre FB and mens BB teams. Use the money towards making our FB head coaching salary in the 7 figure range.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

We should get consistently good at either football or mens BB before we even think about adding another mens sport. It is pointless to add another mens sports program that will probably be mediocre when we already have consistently mediocre FB and mens BB teams. Use the money towards making our FB head coaching salary in the 7 figure range.

Doesn't do any good to pay a coach 7 figures if we don't win 8+ games a year.

 

[Dmanminer]

Baseball's rapidly rising profile will make adding it a necessity.

???

 

[Minerforlife]

Doesn't do any good to pay a coach 7 figures if we don't win 8+ games a year.

They go hand in hand. If we payed a football coach seven figures we would win 8+ games a year.

 

[Minerforlife]

???

Its easily the third highest profile sport in the NCAA. College baseball's profile is raising every year. At several schools baseball now takes priority over basketball.

 

[Stanman915]

We have a better chance at making the final four in basketball than UTEP adding baseball. Much less adding it before men's soccer.

 

[ZonaMiner]

Doesn't do any good to pay a coach 7 figures if we don't win 8+ games a year.

7 figures will attract a completely different caliber of coach than what we are used to at UTEP. Our HC's have been some of the lowest paid coaches in the country, and it shows in the win/loss column. You are not going to get champagne with a beer budget. The 7 figure coaches in CUSA are doing just fine, with the exception of Frank Wilson from UTSA. But I have no clue why UTSA gave Wilson so much money considering he was never a OC or DC in his college coaching career.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

While it MAY attract a different caliber of coach, it doesn't mean they will win 8 games a year here. Sure, I believe we need to pay our coaches more, which we are now doing, but that doesn't mean it translates into wins just like that. We still won't get a name coach to come here. We will still get mainly up and coming coaches that will bolt the first chance they get at a big time school, IF they can win here. I think it takes the right guy to sell UTEP/El Paso to recruits. No one will get the big time recruits to come here, at least not as it stands.
Money doesn't fix our issues completely. It only helps. We need to hire the right people at a decent price, offer incentives achievable, give raises based on performance, and have a HUGE buyout. We might be able to win those 8 games a year AND keep a good coach while paying him properly.

 

[Cube Jack]

This is all immaterial. Adding any men's sport will mean adding another women's sport. Funding would be needed for both and neither would generate revenue. Nothing is being added at this time.

So..... football season is just 4 months away...

 

[ZonaMiner]

While it MAY attract a different caliber of coach, it doesn't mean they will win 8 games a year here. Sure, I believe we need to pay our coaches more, which we are now doing, but that doesn't mean it translates into wins just like that. We still won't get a name coach to come here. We will still get mainly up and coming coaches that will bolt the first chance they get at a big time school, IF they can win here. I think it takes the right guy to sell UTEP/El Paso to recruits. No one will get the big time recruits to come here, at least not as it stands.
Money doesn't fix our issues completely. It only helps. We need to hire the right people at a decent price, offer incentives achievable, give raises based on performance, and have a HUGE buyout. We might be able to win those 8 games a year AND keep a good coach while paying him properly.

We have been trying for decades to find that right guy to sell UTEP/El Paso to recruits at a decent price (aka not one the highest paid coaches in the conference), with incentives achievable and raises based on performance, and we have one of the worst football programs in college football. It is easier said than done.

What we pay for our HC is very close to what a good up and coming coach makes as an OC or DC at the school they are at. Why go to a coaching graveyard program for a similar amount to what you are currently making as a coordinator. A 7 figure salary plus performance incentives WILL attract a much higher caliber coach than what we are used to. If we raised our HC salary to 1.2 million plus incentives, I guarantee we would have a much better coach than Dana Dimel right now.

 

[Lord Chabelo]

Liga MX, which I would say is a few steps above NCAA soccer level.

Ha! Knock Mexico all you want, but the level of competition in Liga MX has made it the most attractive place for players in the continent of America to play in. Yes, the highest paid players play in MLS, but those are only a handful or two, and the level of competition is not on par. Liga MX, on average, has better salaries for all of its players, making it a more attractive destination. The quality of talent is higher in Brazil, but he top talent leaves for Europe at a very early age leaving it's top tier suffering the consequences. Liga MX might be scratching around the top 10-19 leagues in the world. NCAA soccer wouldn't even rank top 100. Mexico's 2nd league is better than NCAA soccer.

 

[JCorona]

Ha! Knock Mexico all you want, but the level of competition in Liga MX has made it the most attractive place for players in the continent of America to play in. Yes, the highest paid players play in MLS, but those are only a handful or two, and the level of competition is not on par. Liga MX, on average, has better salaries for all of its players, making it a more attractive destination. The quality of talent is higher in Brazil, but he top talent leaves for Europe at a very early age leaving it's top tier suffering the consequences. Liga MX might be scratching around the top 10-19 leagues in the world. NCAA soccer wouldn't even rank top 100. Mexico's 2nd league is better than NCAA soccer.

It was a sarcastic point. Obviously Liga MX is at an entire level above NCAA caliber soccer. Also a tongue in check comment that the El Paso area produces plenty of D1 talent. Most have taken the professional route instead of playing soccer for a degree.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

We have been trying for decades to find that right guy to sell UTEP/El Paso to recruits at a decent price (aka not one the highest paid coaches in the conference), with incentives achievable and raises based on performance, and we have one of the worst football programs in college football. It is easier said than done.

What we pay for our HC is very close to what a good up and coming coach makes as an OC or DC at the school they are at. Why go to a coaching graveyard program for a similar amount to what you are currently making as a coordinator. A 7 figure salary plus performance incentives WILL attract a much higher caliber coach than what we are used to. If we raised our HC salary to 1.2 million plus incentives, I guarantee we would have a much better coach than Dana Dimel right now.

It can be argued that a D1 assistant coach would want a shot at his own gig even if it pays less. Again, money isn't the end all. Coaches want THEIR team.
It's awesome you are trashing Dimel after one season even after knowing the shit storm kugler left....You obviously don't know shit about football.
You could have offered $5 million after kugler left and very few would have jumped...

 

[Dmanminer]

We have been trying for decades to find that right guy to sell UTEP/El Paso to recruits at a decent price (aka not one the highest paid coaches in the conference), with incentives achievable and raises based on performance, and we have one of the worst football programs in college football. It is easier said than done.

What we pay for our HC is very close to what a good up and coming coach makes as an OC or DC at the school they are at. Why go to a coaching graveyard program for a similar amount to what you are currently making as a coordinator. A 7 figure salary plus performance incentives WILL attract a much higher caliber coach than what we are used to. If we raised our HC salary to 1.2 million plus incentives, I guarantee we would have a much better coach than Dana Dimel right now.

So open your wallets gentleman and make it happen.

 

[Minerforlife]

So open your wallets gentleman and make it happen.

There are alot of people, myself included, who would be happy to do so.

 

[ZonaMiner]

It can be argued that a D1 assistant coach would want a shot at his own gig even if it pays less. Again, money isn't the end all. Coaches want THEIR team.
It's awesome you are trashing Dimel after one season even after knowing the shit storm kugler left....You obviously don't know shit about football.
You could have offered $5 million after kugler left and very few would have jumped...

Haha this is hilarious. The guy who says I don't know shit about football , says offering 5 million per year after Kugler left would have attracted very few coaches. If we offered 5 million after Kugler left, the UTEP HC would be one the top 15 highest paid HC's in all of college football. UTEP would have had a coaching pool filled with high caliber coaches.. And if we paid 5 million for our HC position after Kugler left, we would have won a hell of a lot more than 1 game last season and get blown out by a 4-6 FCS school.

And you don't have to know shit about football to know Dimel won 8 games in 3 years at his last coaching gig, one of them was a winless season. But this guy is suppose to turn this program around???? What a confidence booster.

 

[ZonaMiner]

So open your wallets gentleman and make it happen.

I donate and purchase season tickets. A competitive football program is a cash cow and our ticket out of CUSA to the MW. Unfortunately, UTEP has its priorities backwards and wants to pay the mens basketball coach in a 1 bid conference more than the football coach. UTEP can pay 7 figures for a football HC.

 

[JCorona]

And you don't have to know shit about football to know Dimel won 8 games in 3 years at his last coaching gig, one of them was a winless season. But this guy is suppose to turn this program around???? What a confidence booster.

To make matters even worse only one of those wins were against a live body. A 7-6 Louisville team. All other wins were against bottom dwellers like Memphis, SMU, RICE, and Army.

I don’t have much confidence either.