Why cant UTEP be competitive against BCS schools
- Thread starter FiliUTEP
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I would prefer that we just start focusing on beating CUSA teams first, then after we win a conference title or two, then maybe we can start looking at facing BCS schools.
BTW, whether we want to or not, UTEP will get two more chances next year when we play at OU and home to Arizona.
BTW, whether we want to or not, UTEP will get two more chances next year when we play at OU and home to Arizona.
To be fair, we seem to schedule the bluebloods like Texas and Oklahoma. It's not realistic for us to be competitive with them for 60 minutes. The issue is we never get the mid-to-bottom tier P5s. We play Tech and we've been very competitive with them this millennium. We probably should have beaten them twice, but that's another story. Heck, we were fairly competitive with OU when they came to El Paso.
One of these days, maybe we'll get the Rutgerses or Kansases of the world.
One of these days, maybe we'll get the Rutgerses or Kansases of the world.
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Because most of the BCS schools we play are also cream-of-the-crop BCS schools, like this season playing eleventh-ranked Texas.
Maybe if UTEP played against Iowa State or Wake Forest, they would have a good chance. But UTEP never plays against Iowa State or Wake Forest; they play Texas and Oklahoma and Wisconsin.
You must not have watched the game. It was very close in the 1st half. Utep played with bad field position the whole game. Kugler took his starters out in the 3rd qtr after 27-7, cause this game meant nothing in respect to the season and conference. On top of that, Texas is much improved and might win the Big 12 this year, so not the beat year to face them
It seems like almost all of our P5 games are just paychecks. I don't know about you guys but I'm almost counting those games as losses years in advance, and I wonder if this program feels the same way.
Well you can blame coaches, admin and the president of the university all you want but the fact of the matter we have been a struggling program long before any of the current leadership was at UTEP. In the early 60's UTEP had a lot of advantages, we had a new and modern stadium, access to a quality bowl, and most importantly access to recruiting grounds in Arizona and West Texas as well as California and the East Coast. We had an innovative passing game (for the time). We had a chance to play in the Sugar Bowl if not for a missed field goal at the end of a game with Wyoming which sent them there instead, we played in the Sun Bowl and beat a good TCU team that year. All the parts were in place to for us to become a major player. In the late 60's we failed to build on the earlier success and had poor to bad seasons, coaching changes and by the time the 70's hit we were at rock bottom. UTEP changed as a campus to a commuter school, recruits wanted a college experience with active and rich campus life, UTEP had little to offer them. By the time the 80's rolled around we had the worst rep in college football, and we deserved it. If we won 2 games a year we were lucky, coaches came and went losses piled up. An save for a few years (the last year Stull coached) we were a horrible program. Stull built what appeared to be a change of course team, but when he left and it fell apart again. The 90's saw UTEP lose more ground, we were shut out of recruiting in TEXAS (recruits laughed at the thought of playing here, and most HS coaches in the state advised their players to go somewhere else). We had little or no local talent to build on and relied on kids who where (a) not ready for college, or had questionable history (b) under the radar kids who sometimes developed but more often than not unable to play division 1. We took money games to fund our programs and with lower tier talent and we took a beating. We occasionally had a success like Nord's first year and Price's few years but we were average a best. College football began to change in the 2000's and big budgets and national recruiting became the norm, UTEP had "0" chance at top tier talent, top tier coaches and fell behind the facilities game. Then to pile on conference changes delt us a cruel blow, the WAC (mountain west) didn't want us and we got shuffled into the deck with the rest of the "hard luck programs". We lost rivals, and played schools nobody heard of or carried about. The image of El Paso was also an issue as most outside the area though of El Paso in the same way they viewed Juarez. Now you can look at the Boise State, Houston and TCU of the college football world as teams we should have emulated but not single program has had to overcome and indure what UTEP has (save NMSU who has had a very similar trajectory as a program as we have). Our history as football school is checkerd and nothing to brag about, but it has endured a lot. I don't believe in the blame game or rhetoric about "just wanting it more" or the magic formula to fix a program or the "prime derective" where one single decision reverses the course.
Nice post Mosquito. But, you left out one major historical fact: When, in the 60's, we exploded with a First Round Pick, All american Players and a National Championship against a Southern Legend School in basketball as well as All American Players, two Bowl wins (against Southern schools) and record breaking performances in football...not to mention that Track and Field had National Championships and All American, record setters galore during the same period...we were effectively shutdown and blackballed by the powers that be. Like in the Godfather Movies, they sicked the Media Dogs (particularly Sports Illustrated) on us and destroyed all of our programs. It was worse then the "Death Penalty" SMU suffered for institutional cheating. What they did was trump up a false narrative of systemic racism in our community, school and coaching staff. Yes, little old El Paso was painted as a hotbed of Racism and Intolerance so horrible that no self-respecting Student Athlete would be caught dead signing a LOI to attend UTEP. The truly ironic component to this was (and is) that the South was in the midst of a Civil Rights War with the rest of the country so that they could continue to suppress their Black Citizens. Kentucky, Mississippi, TCU, all the schools we beat and set off all the alarms off on, now have their pick of the elite Black Athlete! Every season that I see the Southern schools (Alabama, Kentucky, et al) dominate the sports scene I remember what happened during the 60's. Look it up.
The games vs the BCS schools are payday's. Nothing more, nothing less. The BCS bigs offer a nice pay day to a school they can push around and get a good confidence win. The only time(s) it doesn't work for them is when the smaller school beats them, ie App State vs Michigan and most recently, even on a fluke, Central Michigan vs Ok State.
El Paso is growing, and to a degree transforming thanks in large part to Foster and Hunt, so perhaps UTEP can too?
One thing that can be transformational is a great coach. I like Kugler, but I think El Paso fans would respond better to a spread-type, high-scoring, pass-oriented offense. Water under the bridge and/or a pipe dream, but a hire like Leach with his Air Raid would have been a home run here. There are lots of good, young offensive coordinators out there. I know the concern is they would leave if they won here, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
The narrative is similar for basketball...
One thing that can be transformational is a great coach. I like Kugler, but I think El Paso fans would respond better to a spread-type, high-scoring, pass-oriented offense. Water under the bridge and/or a pipe dream, but a hire like Leach with his Air Raid would have been a home run here. There are lots of good, young offensive coordinators out there. I know the concern is they would leave if they won here, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
The narrative is similar for basketball...
Bottom line is win and win consistently. People will show up for 13-10 victories if there are 8-10 of them a year. People won't show up for a bunch of 65-50 losses. We saw that at the end of the Price era.
UTEP is different from alot of g5 schools. We play in a big stadium which allows us on occasion to bring in powerhouse schools. The only way we play g5 scgools is if they play us once at home. Or they are regional draws (tech and Arizona). Otherwise the price for a one off on the road is a million bucks. The only schools who are going to pay us a million dollars are powerhouse programs. Thats why we dont play illinois, purdue, wazzu, kentucky, colorado, rutgers etc. They wont agree to come here and they wont pay the million dollar price.
Just look at NMSU terrible football program, but they beat Minnesota a few years ago. They will probably beat Kentucky saturday. The cats are circling the drain quickly. NMSU needs cash desperately so they will go play anyone for any price. At most we play one money game a year we dont need the cash that bad. Next year we play Arizona and Oklahoma neither are money games because both agreed to come here. The only money games currently on the scheduled are Tennessee and the third ou game in 2019.
Just look at NMSU terrible football program, but they beat Minnesota a few years ago. They will probably beat Kentucky saturday. The cats are circling the drain quickly. NMSU needs cash desperately so they will go play anyone for any price. At most we play one money game a year we dont need the cash that bad. Next year we play Arizona and Oklahoma neither are money games because both agreed to come here. The only money games currently on the scheduled are Tennessee and the third ou game in 2019.
Agree 100% I was just thinking football when I posted.
True, however young up an comers are never a sure bet, nor is the style they promote, they are gambles at most and true the reward can be huge if you hire a great one, but if you get a bad one (see UNM with Locksey) you can set your program back 10 years. You also run into the fact if he is really good you have to hang on to him, which quite frankly UTEP has little resources to accomplish this. A known quantity coach like PRICE or LEACH may be available once in while, but timing seldom works out. Finally most quality coordinators are out of our price range or we are out of their comfort zone (which means they feel the challenges at a place like UTEP are too great to risk a promising career). Bottom line anyone a school like UTEP hires is a gamble, and some come with a few positives or negatives but they are still a gamble. Leach would have never come to UTEP, he had just got ran out of town by a bunch of West Texas yokels in Lubbock and he wasn't going to repeat that at a school lower on the totem pole like UTEP.
Well the other issue is you had bigger programs willing to throw some money at him, enter Washington State. Pullman needed a big name to offset their location and facilities. Leach helped those donor dollars come in and their improving their facilities, but Pullman is still a hard place to recruit to. Although they've started slow, WSU people aren't ready to throw him overboard yet (what other big name are they gonna get, seriously?), so they are going to give Leach as much time as they can before they dump him on the 270 to Idaho.
Would he have came to UTEP? Doubtful, but taking a swing at him or any other big name is never a bad idea. 1. You never know and 2, it lets your fan base know you're serious about your program. I like Kugs staff. I think this is better fit than the staff he had before. But as I've said from the start, they have to develop their players better and have an identity. I'm still not sure what that is yet.
It doesnt matter what style we play as long as we win. Attendance will be back up over 35k this year if we win the next two games. Attendance cratered in about year six of the Price era. It really began earlier but the homegame against Texas in 08 put lipstick on the pig. We hemoraged fans because it appeared like we werent commited to winning. Attendance was hurt in 2014 by back to back beatdowns on national tv. Last year we couldnt recover from the ugly first half. This year we have a chance to get some average fans back. The game against Texas was disapointing but they were competive. Army should draw about 38k. If we win 35 k should show up for usm. If we are 3-1 and have knocked off the division favorites the city will get excited and the bandwagon will start filling up.
23K? Ouch! If that continues you can bet Stull will be scheduling more away games with big name opponents and UTEP loses leverage to negotiate home and home games with them because UTEP needs to make up the loss of revenue for those sagging attendance figures. 40k plus makes things a whole lot better. Oh well?!
Speaking of Leach, hIs press conferences are hilarious:
"I've got receivers running routes that don't even resemble anything we teach."
"We dont like to run and hit and this is a game for running and hitting."
"We are the easiest team in the country to tackle."
"We run out of bounds more than any team in the country"
"We're like a JC Softball team where its not if you win or lose, it is the team that has the most fun are the winners."
Agree, seems utep ends up playing bigger named school when that team just so happens to have a great year. Wish
it's rare I disagree with you, but in this very tiny segment, I do. I think style does matter. Don't forget, we're in a microwave society. It UTEP is winning game 6-3, 10-7, 10-3, etc. - fans are not going to be coming in droves. They'll be happy they're winning, but in the age of high end offenses scoring lots of touchdowns, it's not going to balance out.
His press conferences are riots. I was on the floor with that "I've got receivers running routes that don't even resemble anything we teach" and the JC softball thing made me spit my drink out!
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