ARIZONA-UTEP today

Lil_Train

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Jun 28, 2001
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Out rebounded 44-21. Williams and Boum both shoot under 34%.

We had a chance. A FANTASTIC opportunity to win this game. The stats above are why we lost such a winnable game.
Yes, I thought specifically the rebounding was main factor. No way you can win, especially on the road, getting beat like that on the boards. I thought we did some good things, and kept fighting throughout the game; limiting turnovers. We kept them from running, and making any threes; but again too many second shots.
 

miner1liner

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The only positives are that we weren't embarrassed and humiliated. Lost by 8, biggest margin was 10, cut lead to two and were 17 point dogs.
 
Mar 7, 2013
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Arizona is super talented and well coached, Miners gave them a game. Typical Pac 12 officiating very soft and doesn't allow physical play, CUSA officials will allow a lot more. I think the team made a good jump in play quality and hung in with a quality team. Miners got beat above the rim and we really need a player or two who can sky. Verhooven is close but really nobody else protects the rim. I like our guards, Boum appears to a capable outside threat and Williams is not forcing as much as he did last year. Overall looks like the newbies are upgrades. Still early, but see potential in this team.
 

unihorn

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Dec 1, 2007
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Arizona is super talented and well coached, Miners gave them a game. Typical Pac 12 officiating very soft and doesn't allow physical play, CUSA officials will allow a lot more. I think the team made a good jump in play quality and hung in with a quality team. Miners got beat above the rim and we really need a player or two who can sky. Verhooven is close but really nobody else protects the rim. I like our guards, Boum appears to a capable outside threat and Williams is not forcing as much as he did last year. Overall looks like the newbies are upgrades. Still early, but see potential in this team.

Agree. I didn’t see us playing them close. The big thing is will we improve or stall from here?
 
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MinerManiac

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Jun 28, 2001
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Out rebounded 44-21. Williams and Boum both shoot under 34%.

We had a chance. A FANTASTIC opportunity to win this game. The stats above are why we lost such a winnable game.
Yes, I thought specifically the rebounding was main factor. No way you can win, especially on the road, getting beat like that on the boards. I thought we did some good things, and kept fighting throughout the game; limiting turnovers. We kept them from running, and making any threes; but again too many second shots.

While trying to listen to the game while celebrating my granddaughter's birthday it seemed like UA was getting every offensive rebound. Looking at the stats shows why: like Killer pointed out they outboarded us 44-21 overall, and it was 17-5 on the offensive boards. We did a solid job on our initial defense, holding them to 39% shooting, but after forcing a miss you can't give them another chance - again and again and again. Had we rebounded our defensive board we could have won, even with our offensive woes.

So defensive rebounding was key number one to our loss. Our offense was the second reason we lost. We've played two of the best programs in the west on the road these past two games, one mid-major one high major, and scored 61 points in each game. That's not going to get it done. Tonight the issue was with our stars: Boum and Williams combined for 32% shooting from the field. If we'd had a good day from each of these two guys we might have won, even with our rebounding issues.

The final key was free throws. We sent them to the line 28 times while only shooting 15 ourselves. And they were fantastic, hitting 89%. While I obviously was only able to hear the game, my guess is that we too often played defense with our hands instead of our feet, and that we weren't aggressive enough attacking the rim offensively. Oh, and maybe there was a little bit of home cooking thrown in.

It is good that we were so competitive tonight, but frustrating that if we had played solid fundamental basketball we might be celebrating a win right now, rather than lamenting a loss.
 

miner1liner

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Feb 10, 2014
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Arizona is super talented and well coached, Miners gave them a game. Typical Pac 12 officiating very soft and doesn't allow physical play, CUSA officials will allow a lot more. I think the team made a good jump in play quality and hung in with a quality team. Miners got beat above the rim and we really need a player or two who can sky. Verhooven is close but really nobody else protects the rim. I like our guards, Boum appears to a capable outside threat and Williams is not forcing as much as he did last year. Overall looks like the newbies are upgrades. Still early, but see potential in this team.
Where were Onyema (rim defender) and Hess perimeter shooter?
 

unihorn

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Dec 1, 2007
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While trying to listen to the game while celebrating my granddaughter's birthday it seemed like UA was getting every offensive rebound. Looking at the stats shows why: like Killer pointed out they outboarded us 44-21 overall, and it was 17-5 on the offensive boards. We did a solid job on our initial defense, holding them to 39% shooting, but after forcing a miss you can't give them another chance - again and again and again. Had we rebounded our defensive board we could have won, even with our offensive woes.

So defensive rebounding was key number one to our loss. Our offense was the second reason we lost. We've played two of the best programs in the west on the road these past two games, one mid-major one high major, and scored 61 points in each game. That's not going to get it done. Tonight the issue was with our stars: Boum and Williams combined for 32% shooting from the field. If we'd had a good day from each of these two guys we might have won, even with our rebounding issues.

The final key was free throws. We sent them to the line 28 times while only shooting 15 ourselves. And they were fantastic, hitting 89%. While I obviously was only able to hear the game, my guess is that we too often played defense with our hands instead of our feet, and that we weren't aggressive enough attacking the rim offensively. Oh, and maybe there was a little bit of home cooking thrown in.

It is good that we were so competitive tonight, but frustrating that if we had played solid fundamental basketball we might be celebrating a win right now, rather than lamenting a loss.

If you see their athletes, there was no way we’d out rebound them. Hopefully in conference play we can.
 
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Lil_Train

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If you see their athletes, there was no way we’d out rebound them. Hopefully in conference play we can.
Agree. Plus those same athletes with their length were able to give Williams and Boum problems on offense. Many of Williams shots, in particular, were well defended. There is no doubt their length gave him trouble. Again Bieniemy shot poorly and I thought his looks were better. Hopefully, he can find his shot.
 
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unihorn

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Out rebounded 44-21. Williams and Boum both shoot under 34%.

We had a chance. A FANTASTIC opportunity to win this game. The stats above are why we lost such a winnable game.

Sure, but those stats happened in large part due to AZ’s players.
 
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Mar 7, 2013
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Rebounding is our big issue, Williams for all his skills is not a great rebounder. Many of Arizona's offensive rebounds were 2x put backs, which did inflate the numbers a bit. We did get beat bad under the basket because we can't hold our ground and get pushed out or to far inside to be much of a factor. Arizona was long and lean and quick off the floor, which we are not. All these factors exposed us as did the St Mary's game. Our inside positioning needs work as we just give up to much inside defense and rebounding.
 

Rocketsr

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Sep 8, 2001
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I am still surprised on the lack of boxing out as a fundamental skill being taught to these players. I noticed under Floyd the demise of that and just a continuation through Terry. When you watch teams like SDSU play, when the ball goes up, they immediately box out and seem to destroy teams on the boards with their own second chance points and minimizing the other teams.

If you lack the athletic ability, this is the great equalizer. I just don't understand why it seems to be seldom taught to our players.
 

nattybry

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I have yet to see a full game this year. I know it's a tough year to compare things. However can anyone tell if this team is any better or worse from last year just on an eye test so far?
 

MinerManiac

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Rebounding is our big issue, Williams for all his skills is not a great rebounder. Many of Arizona's offensive rebounds were 2x put backs, which did inflate the numbers a bit. We did get beat bad under the basket because we can't hold our ground and get pushed out or to far inside to be much of a factor. Arizona was long and lean and quick off the floor, which we are not. All these factors exposed us as did the St Mary's game. Our inside positioning needs work as we just give up to much inside defense and rebounding.
I am still surprised on the lack of boxing out as a fundamental skill being taught to these players. I noticed under Floyd the demise of that and just a continuation through Terry. When you watch teams like SDSU play, when the ball goes up, they immediately box out and seem to destroy teams on the boards with their own second chance points and minimizing the other teams.

If you lack the athletic ability, this is the great equalizer. I just don't understand why it seems to be seldom taught to our players.

Thanks. I have wanted to post something similar, but have been busy. Certainly size, strength, and athleticism help when it comes to rebounding, but the most important aspect when it comes to rebounding is blocking out. When a shot goes up every one of our defenders needs to put a body on the man they are guarding. It's hard to grab a board when you're be blocked from the basket.

The biggest tell that we weren't blocking out comes when analyzing the stats on our defensive board. They had 18 offensive rebounds, we had 19 defensive rebounds. We only secured one more rebound off of our defensive board than they did. There is no way that happens if we had been playing sound, fundamental basketball, no matter how long and athletic they are.

I have to wonder: when was the last time we had a good rebounding team? It's been awhile.
 

axingfools1

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I have yet to see a full game this year. I know it's a tough year to compare things. However can anyone tell if this team is any better or worse from last year just on an eye test so far?
We got off to a much better start last year, but let's hope we flip our results from last year as the season progresses.
 
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axingfools1

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Thanks. I have wanted to post something similar, but have been busy. Certainly size, strength, and athleticism help when it comes to rebounding, but the most important aspect when it comes to rebounding is blocking out. When a shot goes up every one of our defenders needs to put a body on the man they are guarding. It's hard to grab a board when you're be blocked from the basket.

The biggest tell that we weren't blocking out comes when analyzing the stats on our defensive board. They had 18 offensive rebounds, we had 19 defensive rebounds. We only secured one more rebound off of our defensive board than they did. There is no way that happens if we had been playing sound, fundamental basketball, no matter how long and athletic they are.

I have to wonder: when was the last time we had a good rebounding team? It's been awhile.
2013-2014 with Bo, Hunter and Lang was the last time we were even in the top 100 in total rebounds. That year we were 33rd in defensive rebounding.

Odigie's freshman year we were 101st in total rebounds.
 
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axingfools1

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Way more athletic and last year was an athletic bunch but that doesn't mean diddly.
Sjolund and Onyema are both big time athletes with very good size. It MUST be their defense that is keeping their minutes down, but both could surely help our rebounding woes when and if they get more time.

I was really expecting better defensive rebounding from Tydus and BW at this point. Kennedy has been grabbing his fair share.
 

TxRdKiller

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Jul 16, 2001
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I have yet to see a full game this year. I know it's a tough year to compare things. However can anyone tell if this team is any better or worse from last year just on an eye test so far?

This team seems more athletic to me. More importantly, they seem more decisive. Not that decisiveness translates into more points or more rebounds -- we've failed something awful with rebounding -- but I haven't noticed hesitancy from these guys like we saw consistently last year whenever Archie or Tarke were in the game. Heck, even Lathon and Hawkins seemed hesitant to really play. These guys just seem a bit more loose and ready to play. They just need to get better.
 

miner1liner

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I have yet to see a full game this year. I know it's a tough year to compare things. However can anyone tell if this team is any better or worse from last year just on an eye test so far?
Can't tell if better or worse, but can tell the coaching level is unchanged. Talent wasting away on the bench.
 
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axingfools1

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This team seems more athletic to me. More importantly, they seem more decisive. Not that decisiveness translates into more points or more rebounds -- we've failed something awful with rebounding -- but I haven't noticed hesitancy from these guys like we saw consistently last year whenever Archie or Tarke were in the game. Heck, even Lathon and Hawkins seemed hesitant to really play. These guys just seem a bit more loose and ready to play. They just need to get better.
Great point. I think that is a good sign.
 

Lil_Train

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Great point. I think that is a good sign.
I don't think as a whole we are more athletic, but I do think we have improved skill wise in some spots. Of course, the big area of improvement, to me, has been at the point. The team just runs more smoothly with a true PG (Bieniemy) running the show. He has been far from perfect, especially in his outside shooting, but he is much more of a stabilizing factor than Lathon. I thought Terry's decision to have Lathon learn on the job as a D1 PG was one of his biggest mistakes. Turnovers have been down so far, and guys are getting the ball where they are comfortable.
 
Mar 7, 2013
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I am still surprised on the lack of boxing out as a fundamental skill being taught to these players. I noticed under Floyd the demise of that and just a continuation through Terry. When you watch teams like SDSU play, when the ball goes up, they immediately box out and seem to destroy teams on the boards with their own second chance points and minimizing the other teams.

If you lack the athletic ability, this is the great equalizer. I just don't understand why it seems to be seldom taught to our players.
We don't really box out and always seems we are out of position to get a rebound. Too far under the basket or too far out to have any effect. It appears our team is always outnumbered under the basket, if we have 2, they have 3. Another factor is our guards who don't flow to the ball. For many years under Barbie and Haskins we always had a guard or two that seemed to scoop up the lose rebounds. The last few years we haven't seen much of that. I know Terry really enforces getting back on defense and teams do not run on us much, but we just don't appear to focus as much on that aspect of the game and it hurts us. Wish we could take a page from the NMSU coach, Jans the Aggies really flow to the ball and play high quality teams even on the boards, don't give up offensive rebounds even close to the rate we do.
 

nattybry

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I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but a win again ASU will help spring board some confidence in this team going into CUSA. They are better than they've showed and I'm sure Terry tells them they are, now they have to show it in a game again what shouldn't be an overwhelming opponent.
 

Rocketsr

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I don't know if size really matters against Arizona State as when I have seen them play they jack up a ton of 3's. They scored only 6 points inside the paint against SDSU, yet were able to hang around for about a half and a quarter of the second. Graham is the guy you have to be afraid of inside, and he scored most of his points late. Of course SDSU has a smothering defense and is terrific on the boards. Most likely a true final 4 team as they are better than last year.

If UTEP does not box out, they will get a ton of offensive rebounds off their misses and kill us on second chance points
 

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