Evan Gilyard and Kobe Magee both gone

[Cube Jack]

Well, that's a wrap...

The final two remnants of the Tim Floyd era are gone. Maybe it's for the best... looking forward to next year

 

[FeralFelidae]

Barbee didn't purge Stefon Jackson to make room for his players. I really hope that's not how it went down; I hope Gilyard was given a fair shot to remain on the team.

Something definitely happened two thirds of the way through the season. Gilyard's efficiency (shot percentage) went way down; was he trying to do too much, trying to prove himself, and therefore taking bad shots? He was our leading scorer for most of the season, so I can't quite understand why his efficiency took such a sudden dive.

 

[USAFminersfan]

Barbee didn't purge Stefon Jackson to make room for his players. I really hope that's not how it went down; I hope Gilyard was given a fair shot to remain on the team.

Something definitely happened two thirds of the way through the season. Gilyard's efficiency (shot percentage) went way down; was he trying to do too much, trying to prove himself, and therefore taking bad shots? He was our leading scorer for most of the season, so I can't quite understand why his efficiency took such a sudden dive.

I think in part it had to do with teams focusing their defense on him and efe

 

[MinerManiac]

I believe that Coach Terry will be very successful here, and I'm rooting for him to be so. That said, if he cries the next time a player he wants to keep decides to transfer, he will get the same amount of sympathy from me that I gave Floyd: none.

 

[MineroFanatico]

I think in part it had to do with teams focusing their defense on him and efe

Possibly but he was missing wide open looks, too. He lost like 10 percentage points in a matter of 6 weeks. He was forcing things beyond his normal. Something was off...what seemed to be mental shit. He just didn’t seem like himself the last 3rd of the season.

 

[FiliUTEP]

so does this open up 2 roster spots for next season? Can terry recruit 2 more for 2019?

 

[MinerManiac]

We were already over signed by two. Our roster is full.

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

On one hand I hate to see those guys go. But at the same time with basketball there aren’t that many scholarships to go around so it’s though to justify keeping around players that have no place within your program.

 

[Lil_Train]

I believe that Coach Terry will be very successful here, and I'm rooting for him to be so. That said, if he cries the next time a player he wants to keep decides to transfer, he will get the same amount of sympathy from me that I gave Floyd: none.

Agree Maniac. And it shouldn't be used by Terry as an excuse for not winning either. Looking at the current makeup of the roster, with no seniors next year, it is highly unlikely Terry will chose to not sign one guy next year. Obviously if he does sign another guy, it will mean one of the guys he recruited will need to transfer. The harsh reasoning that "this was always the plan" would not apply to "his" guys. The challenge for Terry is to keep the guys he thinks can help him win, and the NCAA has made it easier for guys to transfer.

 

[unihorn]

Do we want loyalty or wins? Floyd had neither.

 

[MineroFanatico]

Do we want loyalty or wins? Floyd had neither.

Being aware that loyalty is a thing of the past in cbb, we might as well get some wins then, no?

 

[UTEPMiners8106]

Do we want loyalty or wins? Floyd had neither.

Coaches overrecruiting obviously points to a lack of loyalty on their part. But on the other hand how many players leave because they don’t want to wait their turn? I know every situation is different, but College BB has become such a dirty game, especially when it comes to recruiting/keeping players.

While many of us here will not give Terry a pass if he loses players in the upcoming years, I’m sure there are a lot of Fresno State fans that feel he gutted that program on his way out.

 

[utep2step]

I agree with Maniac. The NCAA has been popped in the mouth with young players saying "to hell with your rules!" and found a mouth piece in LaVar Ball so loyalty is fleeting but not totally gone. So it's a yes-no-maybe-so flavor of the month with college players and the NCAA and I anticipate unhappy players to go under Terry. What I do not want too see ever again is the "ok, but will he be on the floor for tip off?"" that was constant under Floyd.

 

[DBminer]

Is it November yet?

 

[HeWore62]

On the subject of loyalty, I believe there is no stronger personality trait in a player -- or a teammate or a business associate or co-worker. It has been nearly 50 years since I was a UTEP student, but my alma mater is stuck in my heart, and it's not going anywhere. I know a few (not all) of my old football teammates feel the same.

 

[ZonaMiner]

There is no loyalty in college athletics from coaches to players. College athletics is a business. Just think of all of times we have had players verbally commit, use UTEP to get better offers, and then de commit. If a player is lazy and their coach works them hard, they transfer. If a player doesn't get the playing time they think THEY deserve, they transfer. A great player will leave their team in a second if they can get drafted in the NBA or make $$$ professionally.
Coaches are like used car salesman because millions of dollars are at stake for them. They need to win.

 

[MinerManiac]

On the subject of loyalty, I believe there is no stronger personality trait in a player -- or a teammate or a business associate or co-worker. It has been nearly 50 years since I was a UTEP student, but my alma mater is stuck in my heart, and it's not going anywhere. I know a few (not all) of my old football teammates feel the same.

The thing is, in today's game the lack of loyalty doesn't apply only to the player. When first recruited, a player's loyalty lies with the coaching staff, not the school. It is members of the coaching staff who have attended the player's games, developed a relationship with him, told him and his parents that they would take care of him over the next four years, and turn him into a man.

The problem is that the scholarship that the kid is being offered is not for four years. It's a one year scholarship that can be renewed one year at a time for four (no redshirt season) or five (redshirt season) years. For many coaches, it doesn't matter how hard a kid works, how many hours he puts in, how well he gets along with his teammates, or how loyal he might be to the coach and/or program. If the coach finds a player he likes better than this kid, guess who's out the door.

That is what was so disingenuous when Coach Floyd berated Steve Kaplowitz, and cried about the "transfer epidemic". Floyd over recruited every single year that he was here. Hell, he over recruited so much for the class of 2017, that he showed his entire class of 2016 the door after just one year at UTEP.

Loyalty has to be a two way street. If you expect loyalty from your players, you have to show loyalty to your players. It is hypocritical to constantly make players like Tim Cameron, Chris Barnes, and Deon Barrett transfer away because you think that you've found somebody better, then turn around and cry because Vince Hunter decided to test his luck with the draft, Josh McSwiggan wanted to be with his "sweetie", and Isaac Hamilton decided that he didn't want to come here.

I guarantee you that Coach Terry didn't sell Evan Gilyard and Kobe Magee on staying just one more year to make the transition to bringing in his players go smoother. He obviously sold them on being a part of rebuilding UTEP Basketball back to its former glory. Then he dumps them to make room for his own recruits.

I may not like it, but I realize that over recruiting is a part of college basketball today. And I'll be cheering him on as loud as anybody if Coach Terry can make this team into a winner. I do hope that he doesn't cry about the disloyalty of today's players and of the "transfer epidemic" when inevitably one of the players he wants to keep decides to transfer. I have no patience for that type of hypocrisy.

 

[Lil_Train]

The thing is, in today's game the lack of loyalty doesn't apply only to the player. When first recruited, a player's loyalty lies with the coaching staff, not the school. It is members of the coaching staff who have attended the player's games, developed a relationship with him, told him and his parents that they would take care of him over the next four years, and turn him into a man.

The problem is that the scholarship that the kid is being offered is not for four years. It's a one year scholarship that can be renewed one year at a time for four (no redshirt season) or five (redshirt season) years. For many coaches, it doesn't matter how hard a kid works, how many hours he puts in, how well he gets along with his teammates, or how loyal he might be to the coach and/or program. If the coach finds a player he likes better than this kid, guess who's out the door.

That is what was so disingenuous when Coach Floyd berated Steve Kaplowitz, and cried about the "transfer epidemic". Floyd over recruited every single year that he was here. Hell, he over recruited so much for the class of 2017, that he showed his entire class of 2016 the door after just one year at UTEP.

Loyalty has to be a two way street. If you expect loyalty from your players, you have to show loyalty to your players. It is hypocritical to constantly make players like Tim Cameron, Chris Barnes, and Deon Barrett transfer away because you think that you've found somebody better, then turn around and cry because Vince Hunter decided to test his luck with the draft, Josh McSwiggan wanted to be with his "sweetie", and Isaac Hamilton decided that he didn't want to come here.

I guarantee you that Coach Terry didn't sell Evan Gilyard and Kobe Magee on staying just one more year to make the transition to bringing in his players go smoother. He obviously sold them on being a part of rebuilding UTEP Basketball back to its former glory. Then he dumps them to make room for his own recruits.

I may not like it, but I realize that over recruiting is a part of college basketball today. And I'll be cheering him on as loud as anybody if Coach Terry can make this team into a winner. I do hope that he doesn't cry about the disloyalty of today's players and of the "transfer epidemic" when inevitably one of the players he wants to keep decides to transfer. I have no patience for that type of hypocrisy.

Agree 100%. Well said Maniac.

 

[MINER.JAY]

As much as I like CRT, it seems like he's loyal to no one but himself. I'm not saying that hes not doing things to make our program and roster better, but what I am saying is for us not to expect for him to leave us in a pretty position rosterwise if and when he does leave. Like utepminers8106 said, Fresno fans feel like he gutted them and will do the same with us when bigger programs call. I know all coaches leave for bigger programs and take their incoming recruits, plus I love the recruits that he brought in this past year and incoming year, but the way he took his players (Bryson) from Fresno, and the questions regarding EG3, I'm concerned how he'll leave the roster once he goes. But since there isn't loyalty in CBB these days either way, I'll take the wins while he's here.

 

[Lil_Train]

As much as I like CRT, it seems like he's loyal to no one but himself. I'm not saying that hes not doing things to make our program and roster better, but what I am saying is for us not to expect for him to leave us in a pretty position rosterwise if and when he does leave. Like utepminers8106 said, Fresno fans feel like he gutted them and will do the same with us when bigger programs call. I know all coaches leave for bigger programs and take their incoming recruits, plus I love the recruits that he brought in this past year and incoming year, but the way he took his players (Bryson) from Fresno, and the questions regarding EG3, I'm concerned how he'll leave the roster once he goes. But since there isn't loyalty in CBB these days either way, I'll take the wins while he's here.

Fresno is 22-8 this year, and finished third in the MWC. Not saying the same thing will happen at UTEP, but Terry left Fresno in good shape even without Williams, Odigie, Likelele, etc. As far as loyalty, I think he is the same as other D1 coaches; which is as you stated.

 

[nattybry]

The thing is, in today's game the lack of loyalty doesn't apply only to the player. When first recruited, a player's loyalty lies with the coaching staff, not the school. It is members of the coaching staff who have attended the player's games, developed a relationship with him, told him and his parents that they would take care of him over the next four years, and turn him into a man.

The problem is that the scholarship that the kid is being offered is not for four years. It's a one year scholarship that can be renewed one year at a time for four (no redshirt season) or five (redshirt season) years. For many coaches, it doesn't matter how hard a kid works, how many hours he puts in, how well he gets along with his teammates, or how loyal he might be to the coach and/or program. If the coach finds a player he likes better than this kid, guess who's out the door.

That is what was so disingenuous when Coach Floyd berated Steve Kaplowitz, and cried about the "transfer epidemic". Floyd over recruited every single year that he was here. Hell, he over recruited so much for the class of 2017, that he showed his entire class of 2016 the door after just one year at UTEP.

Loyalty has to be a two way street. If you expect loyalty from your players, you have to show loyalty to your players. It is hypocritical to constantly make players like Tim Cameron, Chris Barnes, and Deon Barrett transfer away because you think that you've found somebody better, then turn around and cry because Vince Hunter decided to test his luck with the draft, Josh McSwiggan wanted to be with his "sweetie", and Isaac Hamilton decided that he didn't want to come here.

I guarantee you that Coach Terry didn't sell Evan Gilyard and Kobe Magee on staying just one more year to make the transition to bringing in his players go smoother. He obviously sold them on being a part of rebuilding UTEP Basketball back to its former glory. Then he dumps them to make room for his own recruits.

I may not like it, but I realize that over recruiting is a part of college basketball today. And I'll be cheering him on as loud as anybody if Coach Terry can make this team into a winner. I do hope that he doesn't cry about the disloyalty of today's players and of the "transfer epidemic" when inevitably one of the players he wants to keep decides to transfer. I have no patience for that type of hypocrisy.

And how do you know the situation and how the left? How do you know it wasn't mutual? How do you know Evan and Kobe knew they would more playing time elsewhere after all Terry's players came in? How do you know they were just dumped? There was a coaching change this is business as usual!

 

[MinerManiac]

And how do you know the situation and how the left? How do you know it wasn't mutual? How do you know Evan and Kobe knew they would more playing time elsewhere after all Terry's players came in? How do you know they were just dumped? There was a coaching change this is business as usual!

I'm using common sense, rather than going into full cheerleader mode. Business as usual, with a coaching change, is to do what Smith, Osborne, and Wade did: transfer shortly after the change. If Gilyard and Magee wanted to transfer due to the coaching change, they would have done so last year. NEW coaches will typically have to re-recruit returning underclassmen to the program. I seriously doubt that Terry would have tried to pitch them to only stay for a year.

Also, please look at the way Terry recruited. We've known for some time that two players were going to have to leave. Terry designed it that way by over recruiting two positions. We now know that Gilyard and Magee, the last two players that weren't recruited by the current staff, were the odd men out.

Finally, take a look in the precipitous loss in production by Gilyard. It's obvious to me that he was far less happy with his situation to end the year than he was at the beginning. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[FeralFelidae]

The problem is that the scholarship that the kid is being offered is not for four years. It's a one year scholarship that can be renewed one year at a time for four (no redshirt season) or five (redshirt season) years.

Not in the Big Ten. They're all four-year schollies in the Big Ten. That's one area where I'll give the big conferences a lot of credit and I hope this policy eventually trickles down to the smaller conferences. Maybe a mid-major school like UTEP could steal some recruits otherwise headed to a big conference by giving this four-year guarantee like a big conference. Yeah, we're a mid-major school but we're a traditional basketball power, so we can give basketball scholarships just like the big boys.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

The thing is, in today's game the lack of loyalty doesn't apply only to the player. When first recruited, a player's loyalty lies with the coaching staff, not the school. It is members of the coaching staff who have attended the player's games, developed a relationship with him, told him and his parents that they would take care of him over the next four years, and turn him into a man.

The problem is that the scholarship that the kid is being offered is not for four years. It's a one year scholarship that can be renewed one year at a time for four (no redshirt season) or five (redshirt season) years. For many coaches, it doesn't matter how hard a kid works, how many hours he puts in, how well he gets along with his teammates, or how loyal he might be to the coach and/or program. If the coach finds a player he likes better than this kid, guess who's out the door.

That is what was so disingenuous when Coach Floyd berated Steve Kaplowitz, and cried about the "transfer epidemic". Floyd over recruited every single year that he was here. Hell, he over recruited so much for the class of 2017, that he showed his entire class of 2016 the door after just one year at UTEP.

Loyalty has to be a two way street. If you expect loyalty from your players, you have to show loyalty to your players. It is hypocritical to constantly make players like Tim Cameron, Chris Barnes, and Deon Barrett transfer away because you think that you've found somebody better, then turn around and cry because Vince Hunter decided to test his luck with the draft, Josh McSwiggan wanted to be with his "sweetie", and Isaac Hamilton decided that he didn't want to come here.

I guarantee you that Coach Terry didn't sell Evan Gilyard and Kobe Magee on staying just one more year to make the transition to bringing in his players go smoother. He obviously sold them on being a part of rebuilding UTEP Basketball back to its former glory. Then he dumps them to make room for his own recruits.

I may not like it, but I realize that over recruiting is a part of college basketball today. And I'll be cheering him on as loud as anybody if Coach Terry can make this team into a winner. I do hope that he doesn't cry about the disloyalty of today's players and of the "transfer epidemic" when inevitably one of the players he wants to keep decides to transfer. I have no patience for that type of hypocrisy.

Dude, can you forward this to Ruben Ramirez formally of the El Paso Times? He was giving me crap on twitter because he felt WE are hypocrites for not bashing Terry because Gilyard and Kobe left. I agree completely that if we don't win and players are leaving, Terry should be bashed too.

 

[MinerManiac]

Dude, can you forward this to Ruben Ramirez formally of the El Paso Times? He was giving me crap on twitter because he felt WE are hypocrites for not bashing Terry because Gilyard and Kobe left. I agree completely that if we don't win and players are leaving, Terry should be bashed too.

I'm not on Twitter. I have enough online time wasters w/o being on social media. Invite him to come on here to talk about it. If he refuses, you might want to remind him that Floyd had over seven seasons here, and Terry just completed his first. Also, unlike Floyd, Terry hasn't blamed others for his lack of success, and hopefully never will. That's at least a start.

 

[unihorn]

I'm not on Twitter. I have enough online time wasters w/o being on social media. Invite him to come on here to talk about it. If he refuses, you might want to remind him that Floyd had over seven seasons here, and Terry just completed his first. Also, unlike Floyd, Terry hasn't blamed others for his lack of success, and hopefully never will. That's at least a start.

This is “social media” haha.

 

[Stanman915]

How about we look at this from the perspective of the coach. A coach will lose his/her job if they do not win (Except Floyd with Stull as AD). Therefore a coach must constantly be looking at all possible ways to improve the team. This includes bringing in new players. I can tell you from experience that end of year evaluations are a very stressful time for athletes. I agree that the difference between Floyd and Terry is that, to date Terry has not cried or bitched about the transfer problem. I would have liked someone to have asked Floyd this question: Since you say there is a transfer epidemic, what are your plans to minimize the effect that it has on the program and how can you take advantage of the transfer market? Instead Floyd was allowed to just but blame on others and not take any responsibility for the situation he put the UTEP basketball program in. Floyd should be remembered as the worst coach in the post Haskins era, and responsible for almost destroying the program.

 

[MinerManiac]

This is “social media” haha.

Yeah, yeah. But online forums, and before them, Usenet news groups (yeah, I'm old), were around before the term "social media" was coined. So, to be precise, this is the only form of social media that I waste my time on, even if I prefer not to think of it as such.

 

[UTEPfan1966]

I'm not on Twitter. I have enough online time wasters w/o being on social media. Invite him to come on here to talk about it. If he refuses, you might want to remind him that Floyd had over seven seasons here, and Terry just completed his first. Also, unlike Floyd, Terry hasn't blamed others for his lack of success, and hopefully never will. That's at least a start.

I just think because he was in the media, he became close to Floyd and defends him. Ehh, that's just a guess.
I did give pretty much the same arguments you suggest, but I give up.
Anywho....thanks....

 

[JCorona]

I remember a lot of groans and mumbling when TF first arrived and ran off Moultrie. We all trusted the process and gave him a pass in the beginning. The same should be done for Terry.

 

[axingfools1]

I remember a lot of groans and mumbling when TF first arrived and ran off Moultrie. We all trusted the process and gave him a pass in the beginning. The same should be done for Terry.

Very True, but Floyd thought he had Rashanti Harris and he didn't. That was also Floyd's 1st season too and he had otherwise a very talented team. He had a whole year to recruit his next team. Terry had a "JV" team, but has a bunch of guys waiting in the wings. Terry played with what he had and is building a team, not breaking it down.

 

[nattybry]

I remember a lot of groans and mumbling when TF first arrived and ran off Moultrie. We all trusted the process and gave him a pass in the beginning. The same should be done for Terry.

Not same situation at all

 

[JCorona]

Not same situation at all

What’s the difference?

 

[FeralFelidae]

What’s the difference?

I thought Floyd actually did want Moultrie to stay, but they couldn't agree on terms and Moultrie split? Why would Floyd want to run off a player that scouts had pegged as a future NBA draft pick?

 

[nattybry]

What’s the difference?

Seriously? How difficult is the difference to understand. Not saying either is better or worse, but not at all the same situation.
Floyd- Stacked team, NCAA Ready, Moultrie never ends up playing a game his 1st season
Terry- Depleted team with 3 scholorship players, Recruits transfers to build team to be competitive ASAP, Gilyard plays because commitment to school knowing they're in bad shape and limited on talent, leaves at end of the year.... Not The Same!

 

[JCorona]

Seriously? How difficult is the difference to understand. Not saying either is better or worse, but not at all the same situation.
Floyd- Stacked team, NCAA Ready, Moultrie n very ends up playing a game his 1st season
Terry- Depleted team with 3 scholorship players, Recruits transfers to build team to be competitive ASAP, Gilyard plays because commitment to school knowing they're in bad shape and limited on talent, leaves at end of the year.... Not The Same!

I don’t understand what you meant under the Floyd part but ok.

Basically all I got out of the rest is that Gilyard who’s a good upperclassmen baller with loyalty and commitment to both UTEP and Terry gets a big F U to make room for the freshman class.

 

[nattybry]

I don’t understand what you meant under the Floyd part but ok.

Basically all I got out of the rest is that Gilyard who’s a good upperclassmen baller with loyalty and commitment to both UTEP and Terry gets a big F U to make room for the freshman class.

I corrected it, sometimes my phone hits the space bar and automatically puts in a word. I stated Moultrie never played for Floyd. It's not even close to the same situation. You're the only one who thinks it is.

 

[JCorona]

I corrected it, sometimes my phone hits the space bar and automatically puts in a word. I stated Moultrie never played for Floyd. It's not even close to the same situation. You're the only one who thinks it is.

Do you think if Terry would have told Evan “hey man I’m only going to need you this one season then once my transfers and freshmen arrive we won’t have room for you” would he have stayed?

 

[nattybry]

Do you think if Terry would have told Evan “hey man I’m only going to need you this one season then once my transfers and freshmen arrive we won’t have room for you” would he have stayed?

Do you think that Evan had a choice and made the choice that's best for him based on what was coming in next year?

 

[MinerManiac]

Do you think that Evan had a choice and made the choice that's best for him based on what was coming in next year?

We were over signed by two. The math tells me that neither Kobe or Evan had a choice.