OT: College football is back

JCorona

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You’re right it’s stupid to give up on the top division. Much better to keep throwing money at something that has 1 shared conference championship, no bowl, no P5 wins, and only 6 bowls in the last 54 years. Being “good” (UTEP fb standards only) once every 9 years is such a standard of excellence we need to keep!!!
It’s stupid. The top FCS programs are lucky to break even. We are going to lose money no matter what division we are in. I rather lose money at the D1 level.
 

Minerforlife

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You’re right it’s stupid to give up on the top division. Much better to keep throwing money at something that has 1 shared conference championship, no bowl, no P5 wins, and only 6 bowls in the last 54 years. Being “good” (UTEP fb standards only) once every 9 years is such a standard of excellence we need to keep!!!


By that logic the first sport we should drop is men's basketball. Especially considering we've led or been second in hoops spending in cusa for the last 15 years.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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We've had 2 winning coaches since I have been alive. It cant always be the coaches. I know for a fact that Price was a very good coach. He was a winner before he came here and all of a sudden he became a bad coach. Not likely!

100%
Look at some of the hires that we have had. Replace Bob Stull with Davis Lee. Okay, I can see why they think he might be successful. Didn’t work out, that’s fine. Hire his D Coord, Charlie Bailey. Probably not wanted by anyone else as a head coach. He did okay, but probably shouldn’t have been hired.

Bailey is done, gotta hire his Offensive Coordinator to replace him though! This guy brought the only modern day conference championship, though got destroyed by the other co-champ, but still flamed out and was never a head coach again. Tells you something right there.

Here comes the best UTEP football coach of all-time. Stocked with studs from awful coach Nord. Has 2 good seasons and brings attention to the program. Has 1 more bowl season to finish his stint. Was competitive, but remained too long on the job.

Then we hired a coach, with no head coaching experience from the NFL, not wanted or considered by anyone else now or ever to be a head coach. Absolutely sucked, but still made a bowl game. Will never be a head coach ever in his life.

And the cherry on top, we hire Dismel who went 0fer earlier in his career and was an assistant for 15 years. Again, wanted by nobody else and was apparently the top choice. So if he’s the best, it tells me nobody wants to come and coach at the worst FBS program in the country.

Time to do something different.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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By that logic the first sport we should drop is men's basketball. Especially considering we've led or been second in hoops spending in cusa for the last 15 years.

Has the basketball program only won a single conference title and have 6 post season appearances in the last 54 years? I think not.
 

Taco1977

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Price had more losing seasons at Wassu than winning seasons. His downfall at UTEP was a combination of three things: poor recruiting choices,, nepotism and lack of discipline.

True, but he had an overall winning record and won the pac-10 twice. WSU had never won the pac-10/8 ever before him. Dude can coach his ass off!
 
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JCorona

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I would rather have a shot at winning more consistently than be a FBS bottom dweller.
At the FCS level we will still be UTEP. If we can’t win now we won’t win at the lower divisions either. Bottom teams from the Southland almost beat us. Even the playground and they’ll take us to school. We would be a bottom feeder in the FCS too.
 
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Taco1977

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At the FCS level we will still be UTEP. If we can’t win now we won’t win at the lower divisions either. Bottom teams from the Southland almost beat us. Even the playground and they’ll take us to school. We would be a bottom feeder in the FCS too.

Probably, but the cost savings can be rolled into basketball and other sports. Maybe we'll be able to get a couple of winner programs out of it. Doing the same thing we have always done is not going to yield a different result.
 

Minerforlife

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At the FCS level we will still be UTEP. If we can’t win now we won’t win at the lower divisions either. Bottom teams from the Southland almost beat us. Even the playground and they’ll take us to school. We would be a bottom feeder in the FCS too.


Good point all you have to do is look at NMSU. They're not dropping to FCS even though The WAC is sponsoring FCS. They even know it's a death sentence for the athletic department.
 
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JCorona

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Probably, but the cost savings can be rolled into basketball and other sports. Maybe we'll be able to get a couple of winner programs out of it. Doing the same thing we have always done is not going to yield a different result.
What savings? The profit/loss margins are identical in the FCS/FBS. The only difference is the amount of money involved. For example UTEP spent 34 million and received 33 million for a net loss of 1 million. SHSU spent 19 million and received 18 million for a net loss of one million. You can go down the list of every single FCS program and the financial records are similar.
 
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Taco1977

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What savings? The profit/loss margins are identical in the FCS/FBS. The only difference is the amount of money involved. For example UTEP spent 34 million and received 33 million for a net loss of 1 million. SHSU spent 19 million and received 18 million for a net loss of one million. You can go down the list of every single FCS program and the financial records are similar.

Post the link where you see the FCS financial records please. Also, That 34 million I'm pretty sure is for the entire athletic department and not just football.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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At the FCS level we will still be UTEP. If we can’t win now we won’t win at the lower divisions either. Bottom teams from the Southland almost beat us. Even the playground and they’ll take us to school. We would be a bottom feeder in the FCS too.

And you’re basing that off the 3 performances by UTEP under Dimel, two of which were during a pandemic year correct?
 

JCorona

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Post the link where you see the FCS financial records please. Also, That 34 million I'm pretty sure is for the entire athletic department and not just football.
It’s the entire athletic department.


Going FCS doesn’t save any money.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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What do you suggest we use? The results from two decades ago?

Results since 1967 are far more proven than 3 games picked over 2 seasons. The results of UTEP football the last 50 years speak for themselves. Not 3 “just barely” wins over Southland teams under Dimel.
 
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JCorona

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Results since 1967 are far more proven than 3 games picked over 2 seasons. The results of UTEP football the last 50 years speak for themselves. Not 3 “just barely” wins over Southland teams under Dimel.
Ok. In your own words we have “1 shared conference championship, no bowl, no P5 wins, and only 6 bowls in the last 54 years.” Against teams in a similar division to us.

What’s going to change in the following 54 years if we play teams from our new lower FCS division?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Ok. In your own words we have “1 shared conference championship, no bowl, no P5 wins, and only 6 bowls in the last 54 years.” Against teams in a similar division to us.

What’s going to change in the following 54 years if we play teams from our new lower FCS division?

Different way of thinking, realistic chance of being more competitive and playing for a National championship. Also would give more opportunities to local athletes. Most El Paso high school football players are FCS/D2 level anyway.
 

JCorona

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Different way of thinking, realistic chance of being more competitive and playing for a National championship. Also would give more opportunities to local athletes. Most El Paso high school football players are FCS/D2 level anyway.
The culture will remain the same but we’re going to wave a magic wand, recruit EP kids and win a National championship. Seems about right.
 

Taco1977

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Different way of thinking, realistic chance of being more competitive and playing for a National championship. Also would give more opportunities to local athletes. Most El Paso high school football players are FCS/D2 level anyway.

You just brought up another huge benefit to dropping down a level. You'll get much more community buy-in when you have local kids playing on the team. I know I would be more interested in watching local kids playing at UTEP. Right now it's just not feasible.
 
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Dmanminer

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No way should we drop down!
Need better coaches, better AD, better marketing department, and I hate say this but better fans. Fans who give a shit about Utep, not just band wagon asses that only show up when they win.
 
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JCorona

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You just brought up another huge benefit to dropping down a level. You'll get much more community buy-in when you have local kids playing on the team. I know I would be more interested in watching local kids playing at UTEP. Right now it's just not feasible.
I guess you just skipped the entire kugler era. Our attendance was through the roof with all the EP kids on the team.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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The culture will remain the same but we’re going to wave a magic wand, recruit EP kids and win a National championship. Seems about right.

They would play the same part as they do now. Not suggesting UTEP have a roster full of 63 El Paso guys. Not saying they would win a national title, but they would become a hell of a lot closer than they can dream of now.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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No way should we drop down!
Need better coaches, better AD, better marketing department, and I hate say this but better fans. Fans who give a shit about Utep, not just band wagon asses that only show up when they win.

Please name me a school that loses as consistently as UTEP does that gets better attendance. And don’t give me Vanderbilt or Duke.
 

Dmanminer

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I guess you just skipped the entire kugler era. Our attendance was through the roof with all the EP kids on the team.
Yep, when does El Paso support their own. If it’s not their child they don’t give a damn if they are from El Paso.
How many people went to watch the Jones brothers at Utep? Now that Arron in the pros everyone is a fan. If having local kids would help the fan base then we should have sold out every game. People in EP. only care if it’s the “in” thing at the time.
 

JCorona

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Were they competing for championships then? If they were, then yes I did miss that era.
UTEP can’t even compete for the west division in cusa. I highly doubt a bunch of unwanted recruits from EP will turn us into an FCS powerhouse. You guys are a bit delusional.

How many EP kids are on a current FCS roster?
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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UTEP can’t even compete for the west division in cusa. I highly doubt a bunch of unwanted recruits from EP will turn us into an FCS powerhouse. You guys are a bit delusional.

How many EP kids are on a current FCS roster?

Not saying they will. I’d rather win 1 game a year with a bunch of local kids than with a bunch of kids from Houston, Toronto, or Jerusalem though.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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I guess you just skipped the entire kugler era. Our attendance was through the roof with all the EP kids on the team.

It was all the El Paso kids on the roster that dropped attendance. Not the boring offense, losing before, during, and after, but having too many El Paso kids did it.
You could also say that since Dimel doesn’t have as many as Kugler did, that’s why attendance has dropped?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Yep, when does El Paso support their own. If it’s not their child they don’t give a damn if they are from El Paso.
How many people went to watch the Jones brothers at Utep? Now that Arron in the pros everyone is a fan. If having local kids would help the fan base then we should have sold out every game. People in EP. only care if it’s the “in” thing at the time.

Losing 66-14 to Army and 52-12 to FIU surely makes the people of El Paso want to pack the Sun Bowl!!!!!!
 
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Taco1977

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UTEP can’t even compete for the west division in cusa. I highly doubt a bunch of unwanted recruits from EP will turn us into an FCS powerhouse. You guys are a bit delusional.

How many EP kids are on a current FCS roster?

You might have a point there. winning championships may be a little bit too far of a stretch. I do think if we went down to division 2 El Paso kids could make UTEP very respectable. Maybe not a championship contender though.
 

JCorona

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Not a single EP kid in the top 300.


They’re probably all in D2. Let’s drop there. The Sun Bowl is going to be rocking for our home games vs Angelo St, Midwestern St, New Mexico Highlands and Eastern New Mexico.
 
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JCorona

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What do you suggest to get a winning football program?
Hire a proven winner and pay his assistants.

It’s that simple.

Let’s go back to 2012. We hired Kugler with zero HC experience for 500k. La Tech hired a guy with close to 100 FBS wins for the same price.

8 years later Holtz has won over 60 games and 6 bowl games. UTEP’s fan are arguing if we would win more games at a lower level.

How would things be if we had hired a real coach instead of the AD’s BFF?
 

Taco1977

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Hire a proven winner and pay his assistants.

It’s that simple.

Let’s go back to 2012. We hired Kugler with zero HC experience for 500k. La Tech hired a guy with close to 100 FBS wins for the same price.

8 years later Holts has won over 60 games and 6 bowl games. UTEP’s fan are arguing if we would win more games at a lower level.

How would things be if we had hired a real coach instead of the AD’s BFF

They did hire a proven winner in Price. He had a winning record in both of his stops before UTEP. Had a losing record here. Holts didn't have 100 FBS wins, he had 54. UCONN was in the equivalent of FCS back then. Also, there are plenty of first time coaches that win big at their first stop, so you just want to not even consider any of them?

You say how would things be if we hired a real coach. You think Dimel isn't a real coach? He's been in the business for a long time. What constitutes a real coach in your mind?
 
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JCorona

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They did hire a proven winner in Price. He had a winning record in both of his stops before UTEP. Had a losing record here. Holts didn't have 100 FBS wins, he had 54. UCONN was in the equivalent of FCS back then. Also, there are plenty of first time coaches that win big at their first stop, so you just want to not even consider any of them?

You say how would things be if we hired a real coach. You think Dimel isn't a real coach? He's been in the business for a long time. What constitutes a real coach in your mind?
That’s how quickly a proven winner turned this program around.

After his decline an AD should have put the program ahead of his relationship with Price. Had we fired him after year 6/7 the list of candidates would be much more impressive than Dimel’s power point.

I’m sure a first time coach could win big. Stull did it. We could hit the lottery with the next assistant. What are the odds of that?

A real proven winner HC for me is someone with recent HC success at another FBS school. Dimel hadn’t had a winning season since 1999. That might explain why he’s struggling so much and is 10-53 vs FBS teams in his 6 years as a CUSA HC.
 
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Taco1977

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That’s how quickly a proven winner turned this program around.

After his decline an AD should have put the program ahead of his relationship with Price. Had we fired him after year 6/7 the list of candidates would be much more impressive than Dimel’s power point.

I’m sure a first time coach could win big. Stull did it. We could hit the lottery with the next assistant. What are the odds of that?

A real proven winner HC for me is someone with recent HC success at another FBS school. Dimel hadn’t had a winning season since 1999. That might explain why he’s struggling so much and is 10-53 vs FBS teams in his 6 years as a CUSA HC.

So if the job was open right now. What proven head coach do you think we could get for the same pay? Can't just arbitrarily increase the pay because UTEP doesn't have the money to pay more.
 

JCorona

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So if the job was open right now. What proven head coach do you think we could get for the same pay? Can't just arbitrarily increase the pay because UTEP doesn't have the money to pay more.
Doc Holliday. He was making 600k. That's 112k less than what we pay Dimel.
 

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