OT: College football is back

Taco1977

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Doc Holliday. He was making 600k. That's 112k less than what we pay Dimel.

ok, so what is he going to do different than pretty much every coach in the history of the program to make us a consistent winner? Cant just be the fact that he's won at Marshall, I've already shown that's not a guarantee for continued success here with Price.
 

JCorona

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ok, so what is he going to do different than pretty much every coach in the history of the program to make us a consistent winner? Cant just be the fact that he's won at Marshall, I've already shown that's not a guarantee for continued success here with Price.
If he can get us back to the Price days of 5-7/8-4 type of years I think most of us would be ok with that. This time you pull the trigger after a few losing seasons not 7 straight.

Build off the momentum he created instead of allowing the program to rot while waiting to see if he has one more season in him.
 

Taco1977

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If he can get us back to the Price days of 5-7/8-4 type of years I think most of us would be ok with that. This time you pull the trigger after a few losing seasons not 7 straight.

Build off the momentum he created instead of allowing the program to rot while waiting to see if he has one more season in him.

Doesn't really sound like you have a plan for improvement. Seems like you just want the grass on the other side with out acknowledging the work that went into grown that grass on the other side.
 
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MinerInWisconsin

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Have to agree with JC on this. Dropping to fcs would kill interest not increase it. Athletic donations would take a serious hit.

Either fund the football program, hire proven winners, or drop football altogether. Stull was hired as the coach after having 1 losing season followed by 1 winning season at div 1-AA perennial loser UMass back in the 1980's. He turned UTEP around, had 1 losing season and 2 winning seasons. He hired excellent assistants too. But his success at UMass and UTEP did not translate to Missouri. There are no guarantees but the sketchy blueprint appears to at least hire a coach that has built a winner before somewhere.

I'm still holding out hope that Dimel will turn the Miners around. He had 3 winning seasons at Wyoming which should be a difficult place to recruit to. Unfortunately his idea of offense is not scoring points but killing time. Winning time of possession is too important to him.

I'm anxious to see how the Miners do in 2021. If they turn the corner and make a bowl the next 2 years then we should keep him for a while. Another losing season and he should be gone.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Doesn't really sound like you have a plan for improvement. Seems like you just want the grass on the other side with out acknowledging the work that went into grown that grass on the other side.

Not to mention Doc has never worked outside of the Eastern Time Zone and is 63 years old. That guy would not get it done here unless he had some guys pulling Texas recruits.
 

Taco1977

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Have to agree with JC on this. Dropping to fcs would kill interest not increase it. Athletic donations would take a serious hit.

Either fund the football program, hire proven winners, or drop football altogether. Stull was hired as the coach after having 1 losing season followed by 1 winning season at div 1-AA perennial loser UMass back in the 1980's. He turned UTEP around, had 1 losing season and 2 winning seasons. He hired excellent assistants too. But his success at UMass and UTEP did not translate to Missouri. There are no guarantees but the sketchy blueprint appears to at least hire a coach that has built a winner before somewhere.

I'm still holding out hope that Dimel will turn the Miners around. He had 3 winning seasons at Wyoming which should be a difficult place to recruit to. Unfortunately his idea of offense is not scoring points but killing time. Winning time of possession is too important to him.

I'm anxious to see how the Miners do in 2021. If they turn the corner and make a bowl the next 2 years then we should keep him for a while. Another losing season and he should be gone.

Nobody was talking to you jerk! JK😂

We all hope that he wins, but hoping has been going on since the beginning of the program. At some point the program has to start looking at the reality of the situation. Either they need to figure out a way to raise a lot more money or drop down to a level that is commiserate with the amount of money they're willing to spend. Dropping football altogether would cost at a minimum 85 female scholarships. Most likely it would cost substantially more female scholarships. Dropping down to division 2 would still cost female scholarships, but 50 lost scholarships is a lot better than the minimum 85 that they would lose if we dropped football altogether.
 

JCorona

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Doesn't really sound like you have a plan for improvement. Seems like you just want the grass on the other side with out acknowledging the work that went into grown that grass on the other side.
I recognize it takes a lot of time and hard work to rebuild a program from ashes.

IMO the best way to do that is with someone that has won recently at other FBS programs.

I think Dimel’s final product will be more of the same of what we’ve seen in years 1-3.

The donors, alumni and fan base would be more excited and willing to donate if UTEP hired a proven winner in 2023 instead of announcing we’re joining the wac for all sports.

Lets hear about your plan.

The latest figures I could find (2018) show that we spend 12.3 million on football. The CUSA average is 10.7 million. We were actually #2 right behind UNT at 13.7.

There goes the lack of money theory. We’re spending the same or more than everyone else in our conference.

The problem isn’t money it’s on who and how we spend it.

Let’s say we drop to FCS and our football budget drops to 3.5 million around the median of an FCS program.

How do we stop repeating the same mistakes that plagued us in FBS?
 

MinerInWisconsin

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I recognize it takes a lot of time and hard work to rebuild a program from ashes.

IMO the best way to do that is with someone that has won recently at other FBS programs.

I think Dimel’s final product will be more of the same of what we’ve seen in years 1-3.

The donors, alumni and fan base would be more excited and willing to donate if UTEP hired a proven winner in 2023 instead of announcing we’re joining the wac for all sports.

Lets hear about your plan.

The latest figures I could find (2018) show that we spend 12.3 million on football. The CUSA average is 10.7 million. We were actually #2 right behind UNT at 13.7.

There goes the lack of money theory. We’re spending the same or more than everyone else in our conference.

The problem isn’t money it’s on who and how we spend it.

Let’s say we drop to FCS and our football budget drops to 3.5 million around the median of an FCS program.

How do we stop repeating the same mistakes that plagued us in FBS?
Did not realize we were among the leaders in cusa for funding football. So really its as you said, bad coaching hires. Senter with Adauto's influence is responsible for the 2 big money coaches we currently have. Adauto is retired so we need to retire Senter, hire a more aggressive AD, and let him do the next hiring.

Why Stull let Price hang on so long and then hired Kugler IDK but that has dug a deep hole for the football program.
 

JCorona

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Did not realize we were among the leaders in cusa for funding football. So really its as you said, bad coaching hires. Senter with Adauto's influence is responsible for the 2 big money coaches we currently have. Adauto is retired so we need to retire Senter, hire a more aggressive AD, and let him do the next hiring.

Why Stull let Price hang on so long and then hired Kugler IDK but that has dug a deep hole for the football program.
I’m just as surprised. I 100% believe the right hires will turn our athletic department around.

 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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The latest figures I could find (2018) show that we spend 12.3 million on football. The CUSA average is 10.7 million. We were actually #2 right behind UNT at 13.7.

There goes the lack of money theory. We’re spending the same or more than everyone else in our conference.


What a great ROI. Yeah, let’s dump more money into this White Elephant. If we keep doing it, things will magically get better!
 

JCorona

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What a great ROI. Yeah, let’s dump more money into this White Elephant. If we keep doing it, things will magically get better!
Great post.

We don’t need to dump more money all we need to do is use the current budget to hire a coach other teams want.

I’ll ask you then.

Since we will still have the same problems we face in FBS what will change by dropping to FCS?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Great post.

We don’t need to dump more money all we need to do is use the current budget to hire a coach other teams want.

I’ll ask you then.

Since we will still have the same problems we face in FBS what will change by dropping to FCS?

You do not know that we will have the same problems in FCS.

What will change is less money being wasted and elimination of a few dead weight women’s sports. Opportunity to compete for a national title.
 

JCorona

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You do not know that we will have the same problems in FCS.

What will change is less money being wasted and elimination of a few dead weight women’s sports. Opportunity to compete for a national title.
We will still have aging facilities, isolated from our conference mates and recruiting hot beds.

The top FCS programs lose the same amount of money as us the worst FBS team.

We can’t compete for a division title in the worst football league while outspending our peers.

How will that magically get better and compete for National Championships by dropping to FCS?
 

Minerforlife

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What a great ROI. Yeah, let’s dump more money into this White Elephant. If we keep doing it, things will magically get better!


This is literally the dumbest thread ever on this board. The idea put forward is that while many schools would kill to be FBS we should drop football or down a level.

Somehow this would magically help basketball putting them in a much weaker conference. Also they would be playing against UTRGV, Tarelton St and Dixie St. Meanwhile every g5 school in Texas all who at which at one point we've shared a conference with (except TX State) would be playing in higher level conferences. People honestly think fans, donors and sponsors would receptive to "giving up on athletics". The obvious answer is no. We would lose over half the fan base, most of the donors and sponsors. This would be suicide and at that point better off in d3.

Only on this board are these dumb ideas ever talked about.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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This is literally the dumbest thread ever on this board. The idea put forward is that while many schools would kill to be FBS we should drop football or down a level.

Somehow this would magically help basketball putting them in a much weaker conference. Also they would be playing against UTRGV, Tarelton St and Dixie St. Meanwhile every g5 school in Texas all who at which at one point we've shared a conference with (except TX State) would be playing in higher level conferences. People honestly think fans, donors and sponsors would receptive to "giving up on athletics". The obvious answer is no. We would lose over half the fan base, most of the donors and sponsors. This would be suicide and at that point better off in d3.

Only on this board are these dumb ideas ever talked about.

NDSU doesn’t want to be FBS, neither do a lot of other schools. Montana has turned down several FBS opportunities. Others are in small, rural areas and they have no chance of being in FBS. Idaho St and Northern Colorado wouldn’t take our spot in FBS. Do you think Houston Baptist thinks they’re FBS material?

You have given up on athletics too, as you claim UTSA is our biggest rival. They we’re in the Southland 15 years ago and didn’t even have a football program. Now, they’re at least equal in basketball and above us in football. You can literally come from nothing and be better than UTEP in football.

How much better is it for the basketball team to be playing FIU, FAU, and Charlotte over UTRGV, Tarleton St, and Dixie St?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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We will still have aging facilities, isolated from our conference mates and recruiting hot beds.

The top FCS programs lose the same amount of money as us the worst FBS team.

We can’t compete for a division title in the worst football league while outspending our peers.

How will that magically get better and compete for National Championships by dropping to FCS?

I didn’t say that we would be competing for titles, but it’s a lot more realistic. Keyword “opportunity”. If the Miners win 8 or 9 games in FCS, they would be in the playoffs and have an actual shot at winning the title. If they win 8 or 9 in FBS, they’re playing in the Bahamas Bowl vs a 7 win MAC team or playing a 6-6 Big 12 team in the Heart of Dallas Bowl. Wow, talk about awesome! We would miss out on those 3rd tier bowls once every 10 years we qualify for one.
 

JCorona

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I didn’t say that we would be competing for titles, but it’s a lot more realistic. Keyword “opportunity”. If the Miners win 8 or 9 games in FCS, they would be in the playoffs and have an actual shot at winning the title. If they win 8 or 9 in FBS, they’re playing in the Bahamas Bowl vs a 7 win MAC team or playing a 6-6 Big 12 team in the Heart of Dallas Bowl. Wow, talk about awesome! We would miss out on those 3rd tier bowls once every 10 years we qualify for one.
It’s as realistic as saying we could compete for a NYB. The opportunity is there for us

NDSU has won like 10 out of the last 11 National Championships.

I guess making the playoffs once every 10 years and getting smashed to pieces in the first round could be appealing to some fans.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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It’s as realistic as saying we could compete for a NYB. The opportunity is there for us

NDSU has won like 10 out of the last 11 National Championships.

I guess making the playoffs once every 10 years and getting smashed to pieces in the first round could be appealing to some fans.

Again, you’re just assuming we will be as equally bad in FCS, but are claiming things will change in FBS. Can’t use history to justify against your narrative, but ignore it to justify your own.
 

JCorona

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Again, you’re just assuming we will be as equally bad in FCS, but are claiming things will change in FBS. Can’t use history to justify against your narrative, but ignore it to justify your own.
Because you haven’t answered what will change in FCS besides saying we will lose less money, which is not true, and that we can compete for a national championship.

I’ve told you how things can change for us In the FBS world. Now back up how everything will magically improve by dropping down a level.
 

Taco1977

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I recognize it takes a lot of time and hard work to rebuild a program from ashes.

IMO the best way to do that is with someone that has won recently at other FBS programs.

I think Dimel’s final product will be more of the same of what we’ve seen in years 1-3.

The donors, alumni and fan base would be more excited and willing to donate if UTEP hired a proven winner in 2023 instead of announcing we’re joining the wac for all sports.

Lets hear about your plan.

The latest figures I could find (2018) show that we spend 12.3 million on football. The CUSA average is 10.7 million. We were actually #2 right behind UNT at 13.7.

There goes the lack of money theory. We’re spending the same or more than everyone else in our conference.

The problem isn’t money it’s on who and how we spend it.

Let’s say we drop to FCS and our football budget drops to 3.5 million around the median of an FCS program.

How do we stop repeating the same mistakes that plagued us in FBS?

Football Related Expenses
School20142015201620172018Total
University of North Texas
$13,393,263​
$13,077,540​
$14,592,734​
$14,650,237​
$13,705,067​
$69,418,841​
The University of Texas at El Paso
$9,115,799​
$9,932,288​
$10,738,195​
$10,825,557​
$12,328,422​
$52,940,261​
Middle Tennessee State University
$10,093,608​
$9,387,830​
$10,495,327​
$10,923,170​
$10,532,121​
$51,432,056​
Florida International University
$7,155,156​
$9,194,701​
$8,153,840​
$11,387,450​
$13,792,571​
$49,683,718​
Old Dominion University
$8,939,298​
$8,709,737​
$9,844,722​
$10,391,676​
$10,694,948​
$48,580,381​
University of North Carolina at Charlotte
$6,877,130​
$8,254,835​
$10,325,123​
$10,708,676​
$11,541,778​
$47,707,542​
The University of Texas at San Antonio
$6,864,515​
$8,508,786​
$8,452,073​
$10,699,660​
$9,795,011​
$44,320,045​
Marshall University
$8,365,781​
$7,964,531​
$8,862,422​
$8,912,287​
$9,616,855​
$43,721,876​
Western Kentucky University
$7,836,811​
$7,253,532​
$8,390,093​
$9,747,484​
$9,526,494​
$42,754,414​
University of Alabama at Birmingham
$8,977,964​
$6,855,195​
$7,097,348​
$5,751,169​
$11,274,932​
$39,956,608​
University of Southern Mississippi
$7,457,481​
$7,633,450​
$8,739,522​
$7,427,746​
$7,410,263​
$38,668,462​
Florida Atlantic University
$6,008,059​
$6,082,156​
$6,471,651​
$8,964,723​
$10,813,136​
$38,339,725​
Louisiana Tech University
$5,835,706​
$6,513,456​
$7,217,168​
$8,075,697​
$7,964,218​
$35,606,245​

Facilities and Equipment
School20142015201620172018Total
Old Dominion University
$8,080,861​
$11,665,729​
$11,957,422​
$13,466,124​
$11,219,584​
$56,389,720​
University of North Texas
$8,194,866​
$8,237,864​
$9,584,149​
$9,934,753​
$9,249,137​
$45,200,769​
Florida Atlantic University
$6,043,085​
$9,604,858​
$8,693,143​
$9,889,598​
$9,147,732​
$43,378,416​
University of North Carolina at Charlotte
$6,449,324​
$8,111,839​
$8,173,891​
$8,141,330​
$9,100,523​
$39,976,907​
Florida International University
$3,434,145​
$5,328,413​
$4,212,922​
$5,738,489​
$6,689,147​
$25,403,116​
Middle Tennessee State University
$4,734,884​
$4,671,596​
$4,346,521​
$5,229,373​
$5,212,266​
$24,194,640​
The University of Texas at El Paso
$4,013,820​
$3,529,128​
$5,432,277​
$4,721,661​
$5,113,769​
$22,810,655​
Louisiana Tech University
$4,540,756​
$4,705,056​
$4,449,342​
$4,108,385​
$4,524,312​
$22,327,851​
Western Kentucky University
$2,990,804​
$5,337,241​
$4,558,394​
$4,336,512​
$4,678,041​
$21,900,992​
The University of Texas at San Antonio
$3,220,509​
$4,412,011​
$3,379,362​
$4,915,202​
$5,344,798​
$21,271,882​
Marshall University
$4,692,174​
$3,208,217​
$3,581,216​
$4,298,848​
$4,028,387​
$19,808,842​
University of Southern Mississippi
$3,185,415​
$3,585,165​
$3,402,794​
$3,709,377​
$3,716,433​
$17,599,184​
University of Alabama at Birmingham
$2,544,194​
$2,949,140​
$2,668,263​
$2,923,110​
$3,835,986​
$14,920,693​

Here's what I was able to compile from the website you referenced.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Because you haven’t answered what will change in FCS besides saying we will lose less money, which is not true, and that we can compete for a national championship.

I’ve told you how things can change for us In the FBS world. Now back up how everything will magically improve by dropping down a level.

I don’t think I’ve said things will “improve” by going to FCS. I said I would like to see it happen. UTEP has no shot in FBS. Time to try something new. The football program is embarrassing and a waste of resources. If I were “moderately successful” at something 6 out of 54 times, I would try something else. Being “successful” at something 11% of the time, isn’t appealing to me. You will say something different and so will some other honks. But if you’re “successful” 11% of the time at something, you shouldn’t be doing it.
 

Taco1977

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I don’t think I’ve said things will “improve” by going to FCS. I said I would like to see it happen. UTEP has no shot in FBS. Time to try something new. The football program is embarrassing and a waste of resources. If I were “moderately successful” at something 6 out of 54 times, I would try something else. Being “successful” at something 11% of the time, isn’t appealing to me. You will say something different and so will some other honks. But if you’re “successful” 11% of the time at something, you shouldn’t be doing it.

That is the bottom line right here.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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That is the bottom line right here.

The Miners used to lose to Texas Tech, Arizona, BYU, Fresno, Boise, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and now we lose to Charlotte, UTSA, FIU, UNT, and LaTech. But apparently fans would be so upset that we would be losing to Southern Utah, Tarleton St, Lamar, and Grand Canyon instead. Yeah right.
 

JCorona

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Some people are quitters other keep trying until they achieve success. Look no further than this list.


How many of those teams finally hired the right guy and turned their programs around?

To each their own.
 

Taco1977

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Some people are quitters other keep trying until they achieve success. Look no further than this list.



How many of those teams finally hired the right guy and turned their programs around?

To each their own.

Are you really trying if you keep do the exact same things that lead to the failure? Not only do we need to change the actions that lead to our failures, but we also need to change the thinking too.
 
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JCorona

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The Miners used to lose to Texas Tech, Arizona, BYU, Fresno, Boise, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and now we lose to Charlotte, UTSA, FIU, UNT, and LaTech. But apparently fans would be so upset that we would be losing to Southern Utah, Tarleton St, Lamar, and Grand Canyon instead. Yeah right.
So you admit we’re going to the FCS to do the exact thing we do now. Great way to put ourselves out there and try something new.
 

JCorona

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Are you really trying if you keep do the exact same things that lead to the failure? Not only do we need to change the actions that lead to our failures, but we also need to change the thinking too.
Once we hire a proven winner and he produces the same results as Dimel by his third year then we can agree we’re trying the same thing.
 

JCorona

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Already did that with Price and we're not agreeing, so what gives?
We’ve been over this. The AD should have fired him after year 6/7. Many of us were calling for his job. What other coach has won 25 games in his first four years at UTEP? Isn’t that more success than we have experienced the last four years with only 2 FBS wins on our resume?
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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We’ve been over this. The AD should have fired him after year 6/7. Many of us were calling for his job. What other coach has won 25 games in his first four years at UTEP? Isn’t that more success than we have experienced the last four years with only 2 FBS wins on our resume?

If you’re going to qualify FBS wins, then Mike Price only won 22 games in his first 4 years. Since he won games versus 3 FCS schools. Weber St and Texas Southern x 2
 

JCorona

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If you’re going to qualify FBS wins, then Mike Price only won 22 games in his first 4 years. Since he won games versus 3 FCS schools. Weber St and Texas Southern x 2
Fine 22 wins in four years compared to 2 wins. He didn’t lose or struggle against those FCS teams like we’ve seen the last five plus years.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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I can’t get the link to work. It’s from Bleacher Report “the top 25 worst college football programs ever.” Written back in 2012. A lot of those teams are no longer on that list.

Going by overall record and percentage. While KSt is on that list, most wouldn’t say they’re that now, though they might technically still be on there because of all of the bad years they’ve had.

Just like UTEP is probably one of the better basketball programs historically in Texas; nobody would consider them a Top 5 program now, though their record might indicate so.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Fine 22 wins in four years compared to 2 wins. He didn’t lose or struggle against those FCS teams like we’ve seen the last five plus years.

I don’t think we’re arguing that. Price was a good coach, especially by UTEP standards. He just stayed too long. Price was good, Dimel sucks.
 

Taco1977

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We’ve been over this. The AD should have fired him after year 6/7. Many of us were calling for his job. What other coach has won 25 games in his first four years at UTEP? Isn’t that more success than we have experienced the last four years with only 2 FBS wins on our resume?

Yes we have been over this. The point you're missing is that he was a proven winner who was unable to produce a winning season after the first two years. History shows us that hiring another proven winner will most like net the same result of failure in the end.
 
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JCorona

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Going by overall record and percentage. While KSt is on that list, most wouldn’t say they’re that now, though they might technically still be on there because of all of the bad years they’ve had.

Just like UTEP is probably one of the better basketball programs historically in Texas; nobody would consider them a Top 5 program now, though their record might indicate so.
I don’t think none of those teams considered dropping to G5/FCS/D2. A lot of them are experiencing success now.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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I don’t think none of those teams considered dropping to G5/FCS/D2. A lot of them are experiencing success now.

That’s fine. I am saying, I don’t think anyone has considered KSt, Iowa St, Louisiana, and some others “bottom 25 programs” for a long time. Those are reserved for bad G5 schools like Eastern Michigan, UTEP, and so on.
 

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