Downtown should be the location for the arena if we want to see a revitalized downtown. I think we’ve all seen what these type of projects will do for a city that needs to have a vibrant downtown. I’m not sure if there is any other land available in downtown for the soccer stadium, though.
OT: The Duranguito battle just took a somewhat interesting turn
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So Grossman just turned in a petition to the Texas Supreme Court in an attempt to overturn the decision to have sports in the arena. He is claiming that voters were deceived in the 2012 vote and the city is guilty of performing a "bait and switch" when it comes to allowing sports in the arena.
Well I voted for the arena expecting it to hold sporting events. I was not tricked and I would venture to say that pretty much all of the voters would agree. I would vote 'Yes' again.
Whatever the decision, I hope the city sues Grossman for any legal fees and any devaluation of the $180 million alloted for the arena.
Well I voted for the arena expecting it to hold sporting events. I was not tricked and I would venture to say that pretty much all of the voters would agree. I would vote 'Yes' again.
Whatever the decision, I hope the city sues Grossman for any legal fees and any devaluation of the $180 million alloted for the arena.
I never felt tricked. "Multi purpose" is pretty straight forward. On night it can host sports then the next night it can host a concert or event.
I hope we get that arena built. Anything past that, I don’t want. A new arena for the locomotive? For what? We already pay a ton in taxes and tax payer money is going to be used to cover the cost of the stadium till 2021. This city felt it was a good idea to build that disaster that is the trolley car project. That thing is hemoraging money.
https://kfoxtv.com/news/kfox14-inve...s-off-the-tracks-streetcar-ridership-plummets
You may be absolutely right about that, but it seems like in the end it is going to cost the city more to operate than what it’s worth. So in the end was it really worth it?
I'm a big proponent of pretty much all quality of life projects in El Paso. Trolley, Libraries, Arenas, Stadiums.
Cities are in competition with each other, your city is either growing (Austin) or dying (rust belt cities). Investing in the city is like investing in the athletic program. That's how you attract investors, tourists, and young people to stay in your city.
I agree but at the same time I don’t think El Paso should throw money at any and every project. I want the arena to be built, and I want Duranguito to go. The unfortunate thing is that between the litigation and the rise in cost I’m sure this arena will cost waaayyy more than whatever money has been earmarked. And as much as we want Grossman and his benefactor to be stuck with the bill it’s will probably be added on to our property taxes.
Honestly I just wanna say F Grossman. This is one man's crusade simply due to his pride and not wanting to lose. This is proved by the fact that he wants to keep sports out of the equation at the Arena, just to be an Ass. Seriously F that guy!
I agree 100%. This is more about his ego and giving a big “**** you” to the city. But at the same time I have to blame the city and the administration as well. There was no reason for all those people, with all their fancy job titles and raised to write a that was so vaguely worded.
"Ego's n' a$$h?#@$ are part of my deal.." Uncle Kracker; "Note to my daughters"
But the city better do something quick or its right back to the way things were the last few decades. One thing any American in any American city does not want is "paralysis by analysis" when a legal hurdle pops up and this is what it appears to be.
But the city better do something quick or its right back to the way things were the last few decades. One thing any American in any American city does not want is "paralysis by analysis" when a legal hurdle pops up and this is what it appears to be.
1.). Grossman constantly contradicts himself. He often claims to be fighting to save the tax payer's money and he states that he does "not believe that tax dollars should be used for entertainment", yet when asked what his plans would be for the Duranguito area if it was saved, his response is that he hopes to get it zoned as an historical area so that they can apply for grant money(tax dollars) to fix up and preserve the area. There is no other viable way to save the area without wasting more tax dollars, yet he often claims to be fighting for the tax payers. How many tax payers would truly want their tax money going into saving an area whose most famous standing buildings are an old brothel and laundry mat?
People voted over 70% in favor of an multipurpose facility and just because Grossman does not agree with money being spent on projects like that, doesn't give him the right to make this project more & more expensive with legal costs and delays. Grossman lost this battle when the public voted over 70% to build this facility and this was even line itemed on the ballot separate from the ballpark. Again, Grossman's petty acts of costing the city millions in additional legal fee's and delays do not match with a person who claims to be fighting for the tax payers. The people overwhelmingly voted for it and they have more of a legal right for it to get built than Grossman's small group has in stopping it.
2.) One of the issues with Kappy's plan is that if an Arena is built, then the City can claim certain Tax Rebates from the state. The city would not get that additional money if they built a soccer stadium instead of an arena. Here is an article that touched on the tax rebates that the city can get if they build the arena close enough to the convention center.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj-7cjP-53iAhVXHzQIHbahC7oQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/el-paso/2017/01/20/city-officials-explain-incentives-arena/96856236/&psig=AOvVaw31PEIK0u-r7AA2D_QECFXr&ust=1558024481782462
People voted over 70% in favor of an multipurpose facility and just because Grossman does not agree with money being spent on projects like that, doesn't give him the right to make this project more & more expensive with legal costs and delays. Grossman lost this battle when the public voted over 70% to build this facility and this was even line itemed on the ballot separate from the ballpark. Again, Grossman's petty acts of costing the city millions in additional legal fee's and delays do not match with a person who claims to be fighting for the tax payers. The people overwhelmingly voted for it and they have more of a legal right for it to get built than Grossman's small group has in stopping it.
2.) One of the issues with Kappy's plan is that if an Arena is built, then the City can claim certain Tax Rebates from the state. The city would not get that additional money if they built a soccer stadium instead of an arena. Here is an article that touched on the tax rebates that the city can get if they build the arena close enough to the convention center.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj-7cjP-53iAhVXHzQIHbahC7oQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/el-paso/2017/01/20/city-officials-explain-incentives-arena/96856236/&psig=AOvVaw31PEIK0u-r7AA2D_QECFXr&ust=1558024481782462
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Where in the hell are all the state politicians from the last twenty years who say the majority vote should not be infringed upon?! Oh, wait! It's not so clean cut and convenient to meet their political ends.
I thought a big part of the reason we wanted an arena was to host concerts and other entertainment that would otherwise go to the Pan Am in Cruces? (The Don isn't very accommodating to various stage sizes, they say.)
So how does building a soccer stadium bring any new concerts to El Paso? Besides soccer, what does it bring us that we don't already have at the baseball stadium? And, well, we already do have a soccer team, so what does it bring us at all?
Stupid, stupid idea. Unless it comes with an MLS team, I see no good reason for it. Just because something is "progressive" doesn't mean it's not stupid.
Rock and Metal "open air" concerts for starters are big money and new way of touring for big names. Unless your name is "Slash", "Axle", "Corey Taylor", "Bruce Dickinson", "Ozzy" or "Tom Araya" you are not going to be doing one and half hour or more sets with an opening band (Slayer was in EP last week). Your band will be touring with other bands doing half hour, forty five tops, music sets. If managed and promoted well they can bring in revenue and this is just rock. Now let's be realistic, it would be nothing like "Wacken Open Air" held in Germany which is the international grand daddy of them all which brings tops acts from all over the world, but regional.
"As noted, a stadium can spur economic growth if sports is a significant export industry—that is, if it attracts outsiders to buy the local product and if it results in the sale of certain rights (broadcasting, product licensing) to national firms. But, in reality, sports has little effect on regional net exports."
"Sports teams do collect substantial revenues from national licensing and broadcasting, but these must be balanced against funds leaving the area. Most professional athletes do not live where they play, so their income is not spent locally"
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
"Sports teams do collect substantial revenues from national licensing and broadcasting, but these must be balanced against funds leaving the area. Most professional athletes do not live where they play, so their income is not spent locally"
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/
Public, private partnership. New soccer stadium. Hmmmm. I wonder who that could be? I mean if I were the guessing type I'd say the City went to Mountain Star and said "Help us build an arena" and Mountain Star said "we want a soccer stadium, not an arena".
And why can't we do that in the baseball field? Or the Sun Bowl if we need the seating? Pink Floyd with their extravagant sets had no problem playing the Sun Bowl. Which acts are we going to attract to the soccer stadium that wouldn't play the baseball field or the Sun Bowl?
Personally I want an arena and not a soccer stadium. I get that There is no outdoor venue between SW stadium and The Sun Bowl. But at the same time what indoor venue do we have aside from the Abraham Chavez, Don and Coliseum. If we’re talking about venues that are limiting, the indoor options that this city has are not that good.
If we are looking at building an ourdoor facility for concerts I would like an outdoor amphitheater at the base of the mountain a la Red Rocks. But I know that’s a pipe dream.
If we are looking at building an ourdoor facility for concerts I would like an outdoor amphitheater at the base of the mountain a la Red Rocks. But I know that’s a pipe dream.
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Grossman knows if he just ties it up in legal proceedings there will be no money or want to in this city to get it built. He’s a shithead plain and simple.
How about all the voters that voted yes on the arena sue Grossman for the depreciation value of our $180 million?
Personally I would like to see an arena built 1st. If USL does well then I'm all for and outdoor stadium too. As long as they are nice, improve our city revenue and continue downtown revitalization.
Personally I would like to see an arena built 1st. If USL does well then I'm all for and outdoor stadium too. As long as they are nice, improve our city revenue and continue downtown revitalization.
He has some muscle behind him, otherwise you and your love would be drinking margaritas in it by now.
Could property tax payers file a class action lawsuit against this? Maybe receive lost legal fees payed for by the city for having to fight these frivolous lawsuits. Just a thought
IMO, that would be tough. A cornerstone of our legal system is the rights of the minority, be it race, voters, gender, you name it. To me a good example is the water war between west Texas and Pan handle farmers vs Boone Pickens and our own city. El Paso wanted the water under Valentine, TX and they and ranchers/farmers won. Pickens came years later and wanted their water (Pickens is a corporate believer that water should be privately owned, controlled and distributed) as well because there is an aquifer that lies from the panhandle up to the Dakotas. Thing is Pickens has more money than El Paso and he lost to the ranchers too.
City would have to waste more money and time to prove it was frivolous and would just come across as a big city bully because that's exactly what happened in the Valentine, TX case years ago.
I don’t agree with Steve or his expert friend.
No USL stadium should cost that much. Rio Grande Valley built the best stadium in the USL and it only cost 34 million. San Antonio paid 21 million for theirs. Austin’s only cost 5 million. 15 - 20k is too big. A 8-10k soccer specific stadium would be the perfect size for El Paso.
I don’t know about the rest but I rather have an arena that can host NCAA tournament games. It could also host the CUSA tournament a couple of times.
If Mountain Star wants a stadium then build it with their own money.
No USL stadium should cost that much. Rio Grande Valley built the best stadium in the USL and it only cost 34 million. San Antonio paid 21 million for theirs. Austin’s only cost 5 million. 15 - 20k is too big. A 8-10k soccer specific stadium would be the perfect size for El Paso.
I don’t know about the rest but I rather have an arena that can host NCAA tournament games. It could also host the CUSA tournament a couple of times.
If Mountain Star wants a stadium then build it with their own money.
It doesn't work that way when it comes to stuff like this. This very website we enjoy is because of defense spending to send information electronically decades ago (yes, the internet). Where does defense spending come from? The government. Local, state and national government investment spur economic development....period, end of story. Go scream in you pillow, go turn on MSNBC and yell "F you liberals!", drive to the UTEP campus and scream at the kids that they're attending a "Godless college", throw darts at a HRC picture, whatever. Then come back and deal with reality.
IMO, that would be tough. A cornerstone of our legal system is the rights of the minority, be it race, voters, gender, you name it. To me a good example is the water war between west Texas.............
The city would not be involved, it would be a class action lawsuit, the class in this case would be the property owners in El Paso who pay property tax, they are indirectly being forced to pay the cities legal fees (up to 2 million so far as I understand) to defend the will of the voter. The lawsuit would be to recover the cities expense in fighting the suit. Any money recovered could be rebated back to the property taxpayers. It would likely not be much but it is a start. The voters who approved this, the city and most importantly the tax payers are being harmed by these legal battles. I do not want a soccer stadium, I want a multipurpose arena which I voted for.
The city would not be involved, it would be a class action lawsuit, the class in this case would be the property owners in El Paso who pay property tax, they are indirectly being forced to pay the cities legal fees (up to 2 million so far as I understand) to defend the will of the voter. The lawsuit would be to recover the cities expense in fighting the suit. Any money recovered could be rebated back to the property taxpayers. It would likely not be much but it is a start. The voters who approved this, the city and most importantly the tax payers are being harmed by these legal battles. I do not want a soccer stadium, I want a multipurpose arena which I voted for.
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