Terry fails the Barbee Standard

FeralFelidae

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Last season I created a thread about what I called the Barbee Standard. (I can't find the thread; where did it go, Mods?) When Barbee took over, he received some criticism in his first few years, but each season, his team improved over the previous until he took the team to the NCAA Tournament.

I said it would be fair to judge Terry by the Barbee standard: as long as the team improves over the previous season, I wouldn't call for his firing.

Well, last season's team won more games than this season's team. Sure, it's a COVID-shortened season, so maybe that's not the only metric we can go by.

Well, another metric would be performance in the CUSA Tournament, but this season we lost the first game, just like last season. So I don't see any improvement there, either.

We did not improve. I'm officially on the "Fire Terry" bandwagon.
 

axingfools1

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Nov 6, 2011
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Last season I created a thread about what I called the Barbee Standard. (I can't find the thread; where did it go, Mods?) When Barbee took over, he received some criticism in his first few years, but each season, his team improved over the previous until he took the team to the NCAA Tournament.

I said it would be fair to judge Terry by the Barbee standard: as long as the team improves over the previous season, I wouldn't call for his firing.

Well, last season's team won more games than this season's team. Sure, it's a COVID-shortened season, so maybe that's not the only metric we can go by.

Well, another metric would be performance in the CUSA Tournament, but this season we lost the first game, just like last season. So I don't see any improvement there, either.

We did not improve. I'm officially on the "Fire Terry" bandwagon.
Terry is nowhere near Barbee status. Terry can't even get his team past 101 status. Way too much talent on this team to botch the season like this. He's gotta go now.
 
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MineroFanatico

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Last season I created a thread about what I called the Barbee Standard. (I can't find the thread; where did it go, Mods?) When Barbee took over, he received some criticism in his first few years, but each season, his team improved over the previous until he took the team to the NCAA Tournament.

I said it would be fair to judge Terry by the Barbee standard: as long as the team improves over the previous season, I wouldn't call for his firing.

Well, last season's team won more games than this season's team. Sure, it's a COVID-shortened season, so maybe that's not the only metric we can go by.

Well, another metric would be performance in the CUSA Tournament, but this season we lost the first game, just like last season. So I don't see any improvement there, either.

We did not improve. I'm officially on the "Fire Terry" bandwagon.
Welcome aboard!
 
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JCorona

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Man watching some of these games and I can't help but think how far away UTEP actually is from doing anything decent in basketball.

I dont see Terry as being able to coach in the NCAA or even recruit enough good players to get us there.
Makes you wonder how the hell he won 11 of the last 12 games in route to the MW tournament crown and the NCAA.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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This is a NoNuts type of thread. He can't hit the thumb up button fast enought. :rolleyes:

Your type of thread is getting the seed number and conference wrong for Illinois. Is the dementia kicking in already for you Methuselah? Better take your meds and return to your episode of Bonanza on the tele.
 
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NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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Not sure why you guys are taking offense to Fili’s post. This is the same guy who just thought of having Mike Price as AD.

Don’t you remember his pick up basketball story? Guy is a few fries short of a happy meal.
 

axingfools1

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I think we have decent talent now, but it's hard to tell when we don't utilize an offensive scheme. Barbee had really good combinations of talent in year 3 and 4. It would have continued as well.
 

FiliUTEP

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Terry got better talented players. He just cant coach. Barbee developed his players. JulyanStone, Culpeper were not highly recruited. Everyone even here says this team is talented. The talent is there. Personally I think people here overrate Barbee a little too much. He did leave Floyd with a mess. What was it 7 seniors and no freshman?? Then he jumps ship and take job before the tournament. Yeah what a great coach.
 

FiliUTEP

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you’re on drugs, name one high school player Terry has recruited then developed into a productive basketball player, Terry is lazy depending on transfers


Coaching and recruiting is totally different things. Barbee got High School players and coached them up. They didn't start winning until they all became juniors. And to think about it that team or group doesnt have a good quality win.
That squad is overrated.
 

utep2step

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I can't believe there is Barbee love on here. I still have to pinch myself. It wasn't that long ago El Paso wanted him gone because of his style of play. Not trolling, just sayin'.
 

MineroFanatico

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I can't believe there is Barbee love on here. I still have to pinch myself. It wasn't that long ago El Paso wanted him gone because of his style of play. Not trolling, just sayin'.
I do remember this board was a mixed bag regarding those who liked/disliked Barbee. Most of the dislike, if I remember correctly, was due to his ambivalence about the EP community. Soon as Barbee made the tourney, almost everybody’s desire to see him leave was out the window. Wins = love.
 

FedupMiner

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They didn't last in the NBA. They lasted what 1 year??
That’s right they couldn’t even hack it in the NBA. They are nothing compared to all the 1st round NBA talent that Terry has been bringing to UTEP.
In my opinion , Terry’s recruiting has been average at best while he has been at UTEP. In 3 years Barbee had UTEP going toe to toe with Memphis. In 3 years with Terry , UTEP’s best finish in CUSA conference play has been a .500 record. So it’s pretty obvious who the better recruiter is.
 

unihorn

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That’s right they couldn’t even hack it in the NBA. They are nothing compared to all the 1st round NBA talent that Terry has been bringing to UTEP.
In my opinion , Terry’s recruiting has been average at best while he has been at UTEP. In 3 years Barbee had UTEP going toe to toe with Memphis. In 3 years with Terry , UTEP’s best finish in CUSA conference play has been a .500 record. So it’s pretty obvious who the better recruiter is.

Barbee’s teams got progressively better.
 
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FedupMiner

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I can't believe there is Barbee love on here. I still have to pinch myself. It wasn't that long ago El Paso wanted him gone because of his style of play. Not trolling, just sayin'.
How could you not love Barbee? He did very well versus NMSU, inherited a mess and had UTEP competing with Memphis in 3 years and made the NCAA Tourney. And he brought a very exciting style of basketball. Those people that wanted him gone were just those type of people that think there is only one way to do something.
 

FedupMiner

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Dec 9, 2020
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Barbee’s teams got progressively better.
Yep and it was such an awesome feeling. You always knew it was just a matter of time before everything was going to fall into place. You can’t say the same for Floyd and Terry.
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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I do remember this board was a mixed bag regarding those who liked/disliked Barbee. Most of the dislike, if I remember correctly, was due to his ambivalence about the EP community. Soon as Barbee made the tourney, almost everybody’s desire to see him leave was out the window. Wins = love.

That was just an excuse, you gotta remember that he came in right after a 3 year run of NCAA-NCAA-NIT. He had a losing record and finished 10th in CUSA that year, not exactly a great start. THEN, you add in the fact that he had all the banners condensed and pissed off all the old timers. How is Terry’s attitude towards the EP community any different? I haven’t seen one thing Terry has done outside of the basketball court.
 
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Lil_Train

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I do remember this board was a mixed bag regarding those who liked/disliked Barbee. Most of the dislike, if I remember correctly, was due to his ambivalence about the EP community. Soon as Barbee made the tourney, almost everybody’s desire to see him leave was out the window. Wins = love.
Agree. I also think part of the issue initially with Barbee on the part of some was his perceived reluctance to embrace Haskins as a mentor, as other UTEP coaches had before him. I'm not sure if the assumption was accurate, but the perception of it impacted Barbee's acceptance early. But like you mentioned, the winning that came soon after, was enough for those to put that all aside.
 

MineroFanatico

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That was just an excuse, you gotta remember that he came in right after a 3 year run of NCAA-NCAA-NIT. He had a losing record and finished 10th in CUSA that year, not exactly a great start. THEN, you add in the fact that he had all the banners condensed and pissed off all the old timers. How is Terry’s attitude towards the EP community any different? I haven’t seen one thing Terry has done outside of the basketball court.
Not sure. I don’t pay attention to that kind of thing since I don’t live in EP. I’m just stating what I read on the board during that stretch of time. It was a sentiment that spanned start to end so it wasn’t just about not winning. Not stating my own opinion on the matter, just some of the “negative” feedback I remember reading about him.
 
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MineroFanatico

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Agree. I also think part of the issue initially with Barbee on the part of some was his perceived reluctance to embrace Haskins as a mentor, as other UTEP coaches had before him. I'm not sure if the assumption was accurate, but the perception of it impacted Barbee's acceptance early. But like you mentioned, the winning that came soon after, was enough for those to put that all aside.
Now that you say that, I do remember that as well.
 
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JCorona

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Barbee was never fully accepted. Instead of working out a deal to keep him here BS was too busy hiring Floyd. Everyone was happy and believed we were upgrading the position. Let's see how much longer Barbee's name remains as the last UTEP coach to reach the NCAA.
 
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MinerManiac

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That was just an excuse, you gotta remember that he came in right after a 3 year run of NCAA-NCAA-NIT. He had a losing record and finished 10th in CUSA that year, not exactly a great start. THEN, you add in the fact that he had all the banners condensed and pissed off all the old timers. How is Terry’s attitude towards the EP community any different? I haven’t seen one thing Terry has done outside of the basketball court.
Agree. I also think part of the issue initially with Barbee on the part of some was his perceived reluctance to embrace Haskins as a mentor, as other UTEP coaches had before him. I'm not sure if the assumption was accurate, but the perception of it impacted Barbee's acceptance early. But like you mentioned, the winning that came soon after, was enough for those to put that all aside.

NoWins is correct about Barbee's first year. I remember hearing complaints that year about how Barbee sucked, posting a losing record after we had made three straight postseason tournaments. I had to point out that Williams, Tofi, Ayala, and Moreno were gone, and that, with the exception of Jackson, Sadler had left the cupboard pretty bare. Kilgore was decent, but trading Williams and Tofi for Sampson and Ramalho isn't a fair swap. Still, casual fans only look at results, and don't pay attention to silly things like rosters.

Another issue is the perception that he didn't embrace UTEP's history, especially Haskins. The three previous coaches were constantly praising Haskins and mentioned every cup of coffee they had with him. According to a poster here who said he was friends with Barbee, Barbee met with Haskins regularly. If this is true, Barbee did a poor job of marketing this fact. It wasn't part of his job to do so, but it would have endeared himself more to the community.

Barbee also just never seemed to like El Paso. Whether this perception was real or not, it did come across to many that way. Again, marketing isn't part of the job, but a guy as smart as Barbee should have realized how much it could help his acceptance in the community. Terry, by contrast, couldn't stop gushing about how much he loved Texas, El Paso, and UTEP when he first came here. I don't know if he's done much since, but he did show that initial enthusiasm.

Finally, Barbee ran a team much differently than Haskins did. Old timers weren't impressed. Also, his first three teams were up and down defensively, while defense is something UTEP fans like to hang their hats on. His fourth and final team was a fantastic defensive team, which isn't something that everyone remembers.

As others have said, winning does cure all, and by the time he left, most, though not all, were sad to see him go. That is until Floyd was hired, which most, myself included, thought was a slam dunk hire. Man, were we wrong.

The best thing about Barbee was the fact that his teams improved every year that he was here. If you were paying attention, that improvement was expected each year. This is not something that has happened under Terry, and I have no expectations that we will be any better next season.
 

DBminer

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It’s not even close I would take barbees players over Terry’s any day!! There isn’t one player in the starting lineup from Terry’s I would take over barbees .....


caracter over williams
Moultrie over verhouven
Stone over bieniemy
Culpepper over boum
Polk over kennedy

McCulley , Williams strong , Britten over terry bench and honestly not even close on any of this
 

NoNCAAWinsSince1992

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What percentage of NCAA players ever sniff the NBA?

Who really cares? That’s great if a UTEP player makes the NBA and a solid career, but I only really care if they were good at UTEP. Julian Washburn played in the NBA, give me Randy Culpepper, Stefon Jackson, and Antonie Gillespie over him any day. I’ll take Brandon Wolfram over Derrick Caracter too.
 

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