Jacksonville St./Kennesaw St. Prediction and game thread.

[MineroFanatico]

Fair. I kind of hesitated to call it "gimmick" but I couldn't think of a better word. When you take a defensive strategy and drive it to its extreme limits such that you need very specific personnel to be successful, that's what I mean by "gimmick". Give me a better word and I'll use it.

In that sense, 40 minutes of hell was "gimmick". There's a reason not every team is running full court press all game. Might you do it for a while, yes. Might you over-hedge and overplay all passes for a period of time? Yes. But it's very very hard to be successful doing it all the time. That's what I mean.

Frankly, I do not believe Golding can recruit the personnel he needs to be successful running his defense all the time.

Certainly wasn't calling you out specifically, although I can see how it might've appeared that way. I just hear that, or similar terms, quite a bit. Floyd ran a lot of junk defense, which kind of fits your criteria. It was used situationally, for a period of time. I guess the difference is that the hedging defense is used all game long by most teams who use it. UH is my 2nd team, and they run almost an identical defense all game long, and they obviously run it well, however, as you stated in the 2nd bolded comment, CJG doesn't appear to be able to recruit the personnel needed to run it successfully.

Honestly, I don't care what people call it. Don't even know why I said anything.

 

[jdubb66]

The Miners were sleep walking last night. No energy whatsoever. And to be outrebounded by 17. Unforgiveable. There was just an overall lack of effort everywhere but especially on the glass. The Miners are just not finishing plays. They play great for 30 seconds and when the shot goes up they stand around. They better figure it out quick because there's another great rebounding team coming in on Saturday and they just beat the tar out of NMSU.

 

[nattybry]

The Miners were sleep walking last night. No energy whatsoever. And to be outrebounded by 17. Unforgiveable. There was just an overall lack of effort everywhere but especially on the glass. The Miners are just not finishing plays. They play great for 30 seconds and when the shot goes up they stand around. They better figure it out quick because there's another great rebounding team coming in on Saturday and they just beat the tar out of NMSU.

Watching the game I agree with that totally. I also feel like at no point did this team think they were going to lose until Pierre and crew took over at the end. By that time we started jacking up shots and couldn’t hit the right side of a barn!

 

[T-6 Miner]

Valid question 🙋 I’m asking honestly where you gathered that I said it’s never the fault of the coach? I’m very confused where you read that? Are you perhaps remarking to another post or maybe made up a post in your head that you’re responding too? 🤔 Pretty sure I said Golding got out coached, pretty sure I said the Jacksonville St. coach had him outclassed, pretty sure I have been very critical of CJG! That doesn’t change the fact that Frazier, Barnes and Hebb missed wide open shots and Bynum had the ball completely slip out of his hands on a shot. Those are what ya call Facts! So maybe try again and respond to the post accordingly and accurately, thanks 🙏🏽

Fair callout. My point being, you can't blame the players when the coach puts them in difficult situations because of HIS lack of preparedness or ability. This falls on the coach. The personnel falls on the coach. The players are who they are. CJG recruited them.

 

[axingfools1]

One coaching mishap last night was the lack of minutes for Jones in the second half.

Not just last night..

 

[utep2step]

... when the shot goes up they stand around.

Teich was very emphatic about that specific point and mainly the guards. The guards must go help rebound.

 

[axingfools1]

People keep calling the strategy “gimmick” or “junk” defense. Honestly though, it really isn’t. It’s part of the evolution of cbb. So many teams employ it now. UH being one of them. They lead the nation in team defense, allowing 53.9 pts/game. Next best is 57.8 points/game.

The difference is, UH has the horses to run it effectively…AND they rebound well. I think the Miners run it well too, minus the ability or willingness to rebound.

All cylinders have to click for the hedging defense to be effective.

Whatever it's called I've never been a fan.

UTEP hunts the passing lanes for steals and hedges against 3 point shots and drives. Personally I don't give a crap about that if they are going to be out of position, give up dunks and 50% shooting.

Houston plays man and leads the country in defensive PPG and shooting percentage. They might hegde some but usually always have back side help and rebounding. Yes they have better players, but I would love for UTEP to emulate Houston's style.

 

[FiliUTEP]

I wish we could know how much this basketball team is worth?? If it's one the most expensive in CUSA then expectations should be NCAA or bust . If Terrell got paid I don't think he is living up to it. Only one that looks worth it is Bynum and Frazier if we being honest.

 

[SisyphusMiner]

Certainly wasn't calling you out specifically, although I can see how it might've appeared that way. I just hear that, or similar terms, quite a bit. Floyd ran a lot of junk defense, which kind of fits your criteria. It was used situationally, for a period of time. I guess the difference is that the hedging defense is used all game long by most teams who use it. UH is my 2nd team, and they run almost an identical defense all game long, and they obviously run it well, however, as you stated in the 2nd bolded comment, CJG doesn't appear to be able to recruit the personnel needed to run it successfully.

Honestly, I don't care what people call it. Don't even know why I said anything.

I'm not worried about it. We can disagree about what to call it and whether or not in general it's a good defense. I think the evidence shows that it is not working for Golding at UTEP, and by now if it was going to we should be seeing it.

 

[STexMiner]

Certainly wasn't calling you out specifically, although I can see how it might've appeared that way. I just hear that, or similar terms, quite a bit. Floyd ran a lot of junk defense, which kind of fits your criteria. It was used situationally, for a period of time. I guess the difference is that the hedging defense is used all game long by most teams who use it. UH is my 2nd team, and they run almost an identical defense all game long, and they obviously run it well, however, as you stated in the 2nd bolded comment, CJG doesn't appear to be able to recruit the personnel needed to run it successfully.

Honestly, I don't care what people call it. Don't even know why I said anything.

I'm on record as calling it a gimmick. To me, I mainly call it that because there doesn't seem to be anything fundamental backing it. If the pressure doesn't work, the game turns into a glorified layup drill.

You brought up junk defenses. When those were used by Floyd and Haskins, they reverted back to man when it was apparent it wasn't working.

The steals and turnovers are nice, and they give people something to talk about. But they also paper over a defense that is flawed to large extent.

 

[nattybry]

I'm not worried about it. We can disagree about what to call it and whether or not in general it's a good defense. I think the evidence shows that it is not working for Golding at UTEP, and by now if it was going to we should be seeing it.

I don’t know that it’s necessarily not working, since Utep is one of the top steals teams in the country and 14-5 this year. What I do agree with is Golding hasn’t recruited well enough to get his teams to the NCAA and that’s what he should be judged on at Utep. Also doesn’t help when you give up tons of offensive rebounds after playing good defense.

 

[groundrounds]

Valid question 🙋 I’m asking honestly where you gathered that I said it’s never the fault of the coach? I’m very confused where you read that? Are you perhaps remarking to another post or maybe made up a post in your head that you’re responding too? 🤔 Pretty sure I said Golding got out coached, pretty sure I said the Jacksonville St. coach had him outclassed, pretty sure I have been very critical of CJG! That doesn’t change the fact that Frazier, Barnes and Hebb missed wide open shots and Bynum had the ball completely slip out of his hands on a shot. Those are what ya call Facts! So maybe try again and respond to the post accordingly and accurately, thanks 🙏🏽

As soon as T-6 started bashing libs instead of discussing Miner sports I put him on ignore.

 

[jdubb66]

Teich was very emphatic about that specific point and mainly the guards. The guards must go help rebound.

Right. Rebounding is as much a function of quickness and effort as size. So many times I see a rebound hit the floor and our guards just stand there. Get after it! I know CJG wants to get back on d but at least wait ti possession changes

 

[MineroFanatico]

I'm on record as calling it a gimmick. To me, I mainly call it that because there doesn't seem to be anything fundamental backing it. If the pressure doesn't work, the game turns into a glorified layup drill.

You brought up junk defenses. When those were used by Floyd and Haskins, they reverted back to many when it was apparent it wasn't working.

The steals and turnovers are nice, and they give people something to talk about. But they also paper over a defense that is flawed to large extent.

Well, labels aside, one thing we can all agree upon is that this particular defense has some glaring holes to it under Golding's guidance. I do think it is a personnel issue. It’s the Johnnys and Joes more than it the Xs and Os.

To watch Houston run this very same defense is a thing of beauty.

 

[SisyphusMiner]

I don’t know that it’s necessarily not working, since Utep is one of the top steals teams in the country and 14-5 this year. What I do agree with is Golding hasn’t recruited well enough to get his teams to the NCAA and that’s what he should be judged on at Utep. Also doesn’t help when you give up tons of offensive rebounds after playing good defense.

To me this is essentially the same as me saying Dimel’s offense isn’t working and someone responds that it is working because we win tine of possession every game.

It works at the thing it focuses on at the cost of failing at so many other things that winnable games are lost with maddening frequency

 

[Rocketsr]

No. Talking about the new administration. Glad to clear that up for you.

Well, labels aside, one thing we can all agree upon is that this particular defense has some glaring holes to it under Golding's guidance. I do think it is a personnel issue. It’s the Johnnys and Joes more than it the Xs and Os.

To watch Houston run this very same defense is a thing of beauty.

Watch San Diego State as well. They beat Houston earlier in the year. You will never see then not play great defense and have been in the top 10 defensively 5 years in a row. You know if you are going to play there you have to play great defense. Their defense is very similar to Houston.

As for rebounding, the Miners watch the ball rather than box out. They are not fundamentally sound, and this has killed them. I still remember Liberty shooting free throws and our players just watch the ball and the player came right around them. Simple fix, but it seems as if they don't care about fixing it.

 

[Lil_Train]

Well, labels aside, one thing we can all agree upon is that this particular defense has some glaring holes to it under Golding's guidance. I do think it is a personnel issue. It’s the Johnnys and Joes more than it the Xs and Os.

To watch Houston run this very same defense is a thing of beauty.

Only top 50 in steals nationally for UH. Not impressed with that Sampson guy's gimmick : 😃

 

[MineroFanatico]

Watch San Diego State as well. They beat Houston earlier in the year. You will never see then not play great defense and have been in the top 10 defensively 5 years in a row. You know if you are going to play there you have to play great defense. Their defense is very similar to Houston.

As for rebounding, the Miners watch the ball rather than box out. They are not fundamentally sound, and this has killed them. I still remember Liberty shooting free throws and our players just watch the ball and the player came right around them. Simple fix, but it seems as if they don't care about fixing it.

Yeah, that’s one I’d like to forget. Not any discredit to SDSU’s play, Houston was absolute dog sh!t that day. But it was perhaps a blessing in disguise as they haven’t lost since then.

Agree about how this Miner team just stands arounds. “I thought you were gonna get it”, is the expression on everyone’s face almost every opportunity for a rebound.

 

[Dmanminer]

Teich was very emphatic about that specific point and mainly the guards. The guards must go help rebound

 

[Dmanminer]

Maybe a defense contractor should offer major $ for every rebound. I bet there would be a dog fight for them.

 

[Lil_Train]

Teich was very emphatic about that specific point and mainly the guards. The guards must go help rebound.

Tough to argue with Teich on this one. Especially since Golding plays 4 guards, and an undersized 4/5 the majority of the time.